<p>OK, I admit that I am a little out of the loop, since my youngest was applying two years ago, so the figures I am most familiar with come from three years ago. I wouldn’t have called Tulane a safety at 25% admission, although I do believe that it still has a reputation for taking students with high SATs and good grades, but not necessarily 2400/4.0.</p>
<p>Jonri made a point about whether a college takes a big percentage of its class ED. I think that tends not to matter if the college has a high overall admission rate. The ED admission rates tend to be much higher than the RD admission rates, but it’s based on a small percentage of total applications. The colleges with high admission rates tend to admit a lot of applicants because their yield on RD is very low. If Tulane really got 34,000 applications last year, and admitted 27%, that’s over 9,000 admissions for a class of about 1,500. If half the class was admitted ED (750) from a pool of, say, 3,000 ED applicants, and another 1,000 got deferred, then the RD round was about 8,300 admissions from a pool of 32,000 applicants, or 26%. Not a big difference.</p>
<p>Our flagship admits slightly under 50%, but are nationally ranked in his majors. Everywhere else S1 applied ranged from the high 20s to single digits. Not a strategy I would recommend to everyone (and we will not be doing this with S2), but it was appropriate for this particular kid.</p>
<p>I believe JHS was referring to BU, etc. as schools that would have been safeties for <em>his</em> students, given their scores/grades and that this was a few admission cycles ago. </p>
<p>Remember that out of privacy concerns, people may not be able to post specifics about why they believed XXX school was a safety/match for their child. Some folks have access to Naviance data specific to their HS; some have particular info about how their school is viewed by colleges; some awards are too “public” and make it easy to connect the dots back to a particular individual. YMMV.</p>
<p>dad3x is correct about using the test scores as a guide. I think most universities (including Tulane) distribute data only on their entering freshmen class (those who are attending) though. So, always use the “entering class middle 50%” and not the “applicant pool middle 50%” if both are available. It might be a new thing, but I had actually never seen applicant stats published before. I think if a kid is in the middle of “the middle 50% entering class” it’s a good indicator that he/she is going to be challenged but not too over worked. I think most safeties should be flagship state universities personally (for cost reasons.)</p>
<p>All other things being equal, our son considered only colleges where his SAT score placed him in the top 25% of admitees the prior year and where the %age accepted was greater than about 50%. These colleges included RPI, Case, Oberlin(lower acceptance rate thus minimal merit aid offer), state flagship, Wooster, and Allegheny.</p>
<p>Based on the merit scholarships offerred, all the above seemed to be safeties w/e of Obie.</p>
<p>Tulane did indeed get 40,000 applications this year. [Applications</a> breakrecord - thehullabaloo.com](<a href=“Unavailable”>Unavailable) They revisited their numbers from last year, and I believe they may have initially counted incomplete applications in thier calculations. There may also have been cases like my s’s, who started to do Tulane’s streamline application, but decided instead to use the common app, so for a while they had 2 files on him before they merged them. I wonder if his might have been counted a 2 applications. Anyway, they now say they had about 33,000 applications (or close to) but do say this year they had 40,000. Bigger issue is that the housing is already full for next year, so if freshmen havent applied for a room yet, they should hurry up. Freshman are guaranteed housing, so they will be ok-- but they shouldnt dawdle.</p>
<p>Interesting question. I guess I look at all the schools in terms of a “match” (personality wise)Given that, I guess my idea of a safety school is one that you apply and are accepted to early, so it is in the pocket. It should be affordable, have many if not all the programs you want, and be a place your student can “picture” himself. This does not have to be an instate public. There are some small very good LACs that offer guaranteed scholarships on a sliding scale depending on GPA and test scores, and have rolling admissions, that provide a great environment and education. These were my son’s safeties, and one became a likely, although he eventually chose to go elsewhere - to one of his upper matches that had a better math program . It was very much a relief to have a few of these good safety/matches in the pocket. They did not feel like they would be a compromise for him to attend, and he felt he could be happy there. I think a safety needs to be somewhere your student would be happy to be, even if it does not have the cache’ of his top choices</p>
<p>Two that S applied to were Carroll College in Montana and The College of Idaho. As long as you apply early enough and your grades and test scores are up to snuff, they guarantee a merit award. S received 11,000 a year from both of these, making them very attractive. Nice small communities, great facilities, and obviously endowment.</p>
<p>Dad II,
I believe your question is very easy - all in-state public and a lot of private will be safety for top student. My D. got huge Merit scholarships from every school that she applied, including one private. She was #1 in her class and did not apply to any elite schools for financial and other considerations. Did you check out Case Western - nice private school known for good Merit packages. I bet you there are others out there like this one. Good luck!</p>
<p>^ The problem that Dad II is implying, I think, is what school will challenge a top student–especially if the student is not pre-med but say studying the humanities, where the level of class discussion is crucial.</p>
<p>Any of the colleges we have been talking about will challenge a good student if the student wants to look for the challenges. The faculty quality through the top 200-300 institutions is fabulous. Not everyone is great everywhere, but there are at least some great people everywhere. There may be fewer resources and less of a general culture of intellectual stimulation among the student body, but a good, disciplined student will learn a lot and find some peers almost anywhere.</p>
<p>(Even in the humanities. Freshman composition may be a wasteland, but no one is taking the seminar on Ulysses except people who are dedicated and paying attention.)</p>
<p>Forgive me if I’m repeating myself. I can’t remember if I posted this here, or in a different thread.</p>
<p>One of the criteria we’re using to spot the “more challenging” safeties is Phi Beta Kappa. There are only 276 PBK chapters. But guess what?! They’re not exclusive to the 276 most selective schools in the country. Yes, they’re at schools for the 2400’s. But they’re also at schools for the 1500’s. </p>
<p>(Re post #41) JHS, I said (in post #29) the ED factor was important in applying to SMALL schools. Tulane has roughly 6500 undergrads, which is not what I consider a small college. My point was just that when you apply to a small college ED can really matter.
If you are looking at a school like Middlebury, whcih last I knew offered both ED and EDII, you can’t estimate your chances of getting admitted in the regular round by overall admissions stats, especially if you’re a typical applicant.</p>
<p>sorry for taking so long to thank each of you for your inputs. May be I should explain the situation a litter more precise.</p>
<p>yes, we know all these “tips” about academic aspect of the safety. Lucky for us that our state flagship has a very reputable program for DS’s interested area of study. He has the test score, the GPA and the class ranking to get into the honor program. However, the state flagship U is not a financial safety. $24K a year for DS to attend state U plus ~$10k a year for DD will not be doable for us. </p>
<p>Our DD has an excellent need based FA. Only a school that meet 100% of the need would ensure we only pay one EFC for two kids in schools at the same time. For example, if DS gets into the same school as DD, we will be paying less than $20K/year for both. It will be difficult for us, but doable.</p>
<p>Hope you all see the challenge here. Any school with excellent need based FA will be very difficult to get in. Those that he could for sure get in academically may not split the bill per se.</p>
<p>BTW, DS will do a SCEA so there will not be any other EA. Our State flag ship U has a rolling admission. The worst case is for him to attend a very good university and have about $20 ~ 30K loan.</p>
<p>If your Guidance Counselor is on top of things, they should be able to tell you which college accept a high percentage of kids from your HS. Ours told us, with a GPA of XX, your student will likely get into XX school.</p>
<p>MIV, yes, we will seek GC’s input at the beginning of HS’s senior year. However, I would take both GC’s comment and the historical data with caution. For any top 20 schools, the GPA and test scores only get you into the “consideration” pile. No one could say for sure that GPA of xxx will 100% get you into any of the top 20 schools.</p>
<p>Dad II, why are you so fixated on the top 20 schools? A bright young man like your son could get into any number of excellent schools and even get merit money at some. What did you do during his tour - you took him to Ivies and SWat. What is your resistance to looking more broadly esp if you want merit money?</p>
<p>So much depends on your state public system. Here in Montgomery County Maryland, the largest number of students graduating from Happykid’s HS every single year head off to our own local community college: [Montgomery</a> College, MD](<a href=“http://www.montgomerycollege.edu%5DMontgomery”>http://www.montgomerycollege.edu) This place has a fantastic honors program, an amazing business honors program, and an incredible two year art and design program, along with all of your usually community college options such as automechanics, landscaping, pre-engineering, etc. Students transfer from this community college to our state universities, and to top private and public universities all over the country. In-county tuition and fees are still under 5k. Out of county but in-state fees are a bit higher.</p>
<p>If you take a long hard look at the community colleges in your state that have articulation agreements with the in-state university for the major(s) your son is interested in, you should be able to find the financial safety that you need.</p>
<p>PG, this is how I think. Under this econmoy, the fight for limited merit money will be harder than admission into schools with good need based FA. Do you agree?</p>
<p>Our family has not had good luck per getting merit aid. On the other hand, we know for sure we could get rather decent need based FA for just being. So, the focus is on need based FA for DS. Who gives the best need based FA? You know the answer, right?</p>
<p>Again, I do not have any problem if DS goes to OSU with some merit $$. The ecomonics department at OSU is very reputable - in the top 20 of the nation. There is really not need to look at any OOS public. </p>
<p>BTW, would you give me some names with reasons that we should “looing more broadly”? Please don’t just put out a statement like that.</p>