<ol>
<li><p>see post #22</p></li>
<li><p>X220 is open to all. The problem is that by the time freshmen register, most (if not all) slots will be taken.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>If I were you, I’d follow bthomp’s advice from post #5: “Take CSCI A110 fall semester for an easy A in an N&M class and, more importantly, to prepare you for K201 in the Spring semester. Take X104 first semester. Avoid microeconomics at IU; the sections are huge and the tests are very difficult.”</p>
<p>So, a first semester schedule (15 credits) could look like:</p>
<p>MATH M119
BUS G100 or BUS X100
BUS X104
CSCI A110 (easy N&M)
another ‘easy’ distribution option elective</p>
<p>Don’t take G100. It does not help with any Kelley requirements at all. Take X100 instead, as it can be used to get into Kelley in lieu of one of finite or calculus. </p>
<p>You should take A100. You will have to pass A100 before you can take Icore. Somebody here can probably send you a bunch of A100 practice tests to go over and over until you understand why each answer is what it is. Going over and over the tests is probably the best way to get a good grade in the class, along with reading a basic financial accounting textbook like the one mentioned earlier.</p>
<p>You might even take W131 at a cc this summer. Probably most cc’s in the country have a basic English composition course that will substitute for W131. Check the credit transfer service for a school in your area:
[Credit</a> Transfer Service: Admissions: Indiana University](<a href=“http://cts.admissions.indiana.edu/]Credit”>http://cts.admissions.indiana.edu/)</p>
<p>bthomp:</p>
<p>I’m wondering why you say that G100 won’t help with any Kelley requirements? The admission requirements that I have pasted below says that G100 can be used as one of the 3 classes to enter Kelley. Is there something I’m missing? I know for DAs there is nothing to be gained from it or X100, but for regular admits, either one should be OK, right?</p>
<p>[Current</a> University Division Students: Admissions: Undergraduate Program: Kelley School of Business: Indiana University Bloomington](<a href=“Undergraduate | Bachelor's Degree in Business | Indiana Kelley”>Undergraduate | Bachelor's Degree in Business | Indiana Kelley)</p>
<p>2010–2011 Admission Requirements</p>
<p>Completion of 26–70 hours of college coursework. (For transfer students, this includes completion of at least one semester on the Bloomington campus.)
Consistent “B” performance across all courses. Please note that a B– does not meet this requirement. The Admissions Committee reviews grades in all courses, not just business courses.
Completion of ENG-W 131 Elementary Composition (or equivalent).
Completion of three or more of the following admissions courses:
MATH-M 118 Finite Mathematics
MATH-M 119 Brief Survey of Calculus
BUS-K 201 The Computer in Business
BUS-X 100 Introduction to Business Administration OR BUS-G 100 Business in the Information Age</p>
<p>Illinoismom, you are right you can take G100. It is easy to overlook because so few people take it, and it is only being offered in one section of 30 students in Fall 2011. X100 and G100 are a waste in the sense that they don’t meet any graduation requirements for Kelley. If you wanted to take both and finite and calculus, then you could do your degree more efficiently than if you took three credits that did nothing toward meeting graduation requirements by taking x100 or g100, but taking x100 or g100 instead of finite or calculus in order to get into Kelley is well worth it because each is much easier than finite or calculus. It’s getting to the point, with so many direct admits now, that it is not even worth it for OOS students to gamble their 40K or so for freshman year to get into Kelley. On the other hand, Kelley is still probably so much easier to get into than any other top ten business school.</p>
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<p>You need to get the solid B or higher the first time you take each class you take through your freshman to be guaranteed admission. Everything else is just speculation. </p>
<p>Do you really want to spend two years of your life and 80K to try to get into Kelley, knowing your chances would probably not be very good if you have to resort to using the extended-x policy to retake classes after not doing well in some of them as a freshman. Kelley will look at all coursework for admission purposes, including the classes you retake. How many classes can you afford to retake anyway. It would be very expensive and time consuming for OOS students to do what you suggest, and, though nobody knows for sure, I doubt many ever get in after retaking Icore prerequisites to raise their grade in them. Chances of getting in are so poor now compared to the past that Kelley only allows one application, whereas only a few years ago students were getting in after sophomore year after being denied admission after freshman year. There are only about 500 regular admit seats available every year, and this number will continue to fall as Kelley becomes more popular and the economy remains poor and fewer seats are available to regular admits.</p>
<p>I don’t think anyone is saying that getting all B’s isn’t that difficult. Obviously, it can be done because there are regular admits every year. </p>
<p>I think what some of us are asking you to think about is how much money are you and your family willing to risk on this. If you and your parents haven’t yet had a serious conversation about how school is going to be paid for, now is the time to do it.</p>
<p>You have all summer to explore a wide range of options. If your parents are onboard to spend $40K a year + travel expenses, then perhaps you might want to think about some private schools that have good reputations in business and that admit you automatically.</p>
<p>Another thing you should consider is where you want to wind up living after college graduation. If you get into Kelley, most of the jobs available through them will land you in the Midwest. Just something to think about.</p>
<p>is it not possible to take A100 at a CC during the summer or prior then transfer it in?</p>
<p>kendrick, if you check the Credit Transfer link referred to upthread a couple of times, you will find your answer.</p>
<p>Collegeready, I have never stated that an “exact” number get in; look at the numbers below from Business Week and you will see that a trend is very apparent from the numbers, and that trend is that there are many fewer slots for regular admits each year. Notice how much harder it will be for you and everybody else taking the regular admit path in order to get into Kelley compared to 2005-2006. </p>
<p>2005-06
Direct Admits 332
Regular Admits 955
Total 1287</p>
<p>2010-11
Direct Admits 829
Regular Admits 553
Total 1382</p>
<p>Do you pay attention at all to what I post. I have said over and over that GUARENTEED admission is possible only with all B’s and above, just like the advisor said. Please find where I said that getting all B’s “isn’t that difficult.” To the contrary, I posted twice lately the figures for students who got B’s and above on some of the weed out Kelley classes based on the course gpa’s for Fall 2010 to illustrate how difficult it is for the population that takes these classes to get a B or higher. These tables show pretty explicitly that it is very difficult to get all B’s and above in these weed out classes. Here are some of the numbers again. </p>
<p>Students getting a B or above in Fall 2011:
A100 – 37% out of 1900
M118 – 34% out of 3155
M119 – 30% out of 1863
E201 – 31% out of 1728</p>
<p>Do those number really look to you like it is easy to get all B’s in the above courses? I would never tell somebody I did not know personally that it is “doable” to get all B’s if you work hard. It’s pretty obvious from the numbers above that it is not doable for the majority of kids trying to get into Kelley.</p>
<p>Bthomp clearly stated that the classes s/he listed were weedout classes. X100 and K201 don’t fall in that category.</p>
<p>If you would like to continue to get excellent FREE parental advice, you might want to leave your attitude at the door.</p>
<p>collegeready, only 44% of the students who took K201 in Fall 2010 got a B or higher. 942 students who took K201 that semester ruined their chance of getting guaranteed acceptance to Kelley with K201 alone. How does that make K201 “much easier” than the weed out classes where about 1/3 don’t get a solid B and hundreds more lose their guaranteed admission? </p>
<p>I know you have a “vast knowledge of calculus,” but these very elementary statistics clearly show that many hundreds of students who took weed out classes like A100, finite and calculus, E201, and K201 (942 of them, despite what you say about K201 being much easier than other weed out classes) in Fall 2010 ruined their chance for guaranteed admission to Kelley.</p>
<p>I don’t mean to rub salt in the wound but I know a lot of people who are really good at math (I’m talking people who took AP calc AB/BC in high school and passed the test with a 4-5 and have always been strong math students) and overall really intelligent people who struggled hard with M119 and M118. These classes are no joke. You REALLY need to be willing to put forth the effort to do well or else it’ll be futile. The kids who went to office hours, put a good effort into their homework, and devoted themselves 100% to doing well were the ones who managed to pull off A’s and B’s. It can be really hard, especially first semester, to focus on school because there are a ton of distractions. But if you want to get into Kelley, you have to be willing to commit yourself from day 1 and understand that you’ll probably be making some sacrifices. There’s always time to party later, AFTER you get into Kelley! Okay, I sound like a parent so I’m going to stop now… haha</p>
<p>I’m not “mistaken.” I am very well aware of the fact that M119 is a class that people test out of. I’m just saying that college math is tough and people who excelled in it in high school may not find themselves doing as well once they reach the university level.</p>
<p>^^^Why are you disputing the experiences of current students? The value of a site like this is in the honest assessments that current students can provide. Just because what they say doesn’t conform to written information provided by the school doesn’t make it any less true.</p>
<p>Be thankful for their honest advice and use it to your advantage. They don’t have any reason to lie to you.</p>
<p>When you test out of M119, you still have to complete a calculus class. The advisors recommend everyone who tests out of M119 to take M211. This is horrible advice for students trying to get into Kelley, because probably many of the smart students Leila is talking about are first semester freshmen taking M211. </p>
<p>There is absolutely no reason for any Kelley aspirant to take M211, no matter how high they score in math at orientation. M211 is loaded with people who want to get into Kelley but have no business being in that class. 79% of the Fall 2010 M211 students were freshmen; less than one percent of the people in the class were math majors, despite the fact that M211 is a third semester calculus class. So it is reasonable to assume that nearly all of the freshmen taking M211 in fall semesters are in Kelley or trying to get into Kelley, tested out of M119, and are taking M211 because they were advised to by advisors. There are no other groups of students who would be taking the class; liberal arts majors don’t need that class for any requirements, except for the math majors-- and, again, this class is less than one percent math majors every Fall.</p>
<p>So what is the B or better rate for M211? In Fall 2010, it was 29%-- about the same as the rate for M119. So here is a very large group of freshmen (probably at least 500) smart enough to test out of M119, who end their first semester at IU starting out with a B- or less in a course that will be used to apply to Kelley or appears on their transcript as a direct admit.</p>
<p>The moral here is to take M119 no matter what an advisor tell you or how much you know about calculus from high school (and if you really love calculus, you can always take calculus beyond M119 AFTER getting into Kelley; although there is no reason to do that, too, since Kelley requires only one calculus class, and you will not need any calculus beyond the M119 level your entire time in Kelley, even if you are a finance major). </p>
<p>Take the first semester calculus class-- that is the minimum requirement for Kelley. Do not take the third semester calculus class. M119 will be difficult enough, considering there is tons of homework, the classes are massive,and only about 25% of the students get a B or higher in it. You might be a good math student, but if you have a bad day on the mid term or final, you will likely not get a solid B in the class.</p>
<p>Don’t be one of the nearly seven hundred Kelley wannabes or Kelley direct admits to take M211 your first semester at IU and have a seventy per cent chance of getting a B- or lower on your first report card. For the ones trying to get into Kelley, anything below a solid B will end your chance for guaranteed admission to Kelley.</p>
<p>As a footnote, believe it or not, more freshmen take M212 and even M213 than sopohmores-seniors combined in Fall semesters. These classes are no more than two or three per cent math majors (in other words, the huge majority want to get into Kelley or are in Kelley). Less than 40% of these students get a B or higher. Makes you wonder how many math professors IU could get rid of if advisors stopped stopped requiring calculus of business students, especially since so many of them wind up repeating the class to try to remain in, or get into, Kelley.</p>
<p>M211 is a required course for Chemistry BS and Physics BS students. If you are aiming for Kelley, stay away from that at all costs.</p>
<p>Thanks for pointing that out, Ace. That probably accounts for a big proportion of the non-math majors taking the class, and, like you say, is a great reason for Kelley types not to take M211 and M212.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>No bud, I think you’re mistaken. I was a straight-A math student in high school, went through AP Calc BC and got a 3 on the exam.
I’ve taken M118, M119 and M212 and I had a horribly difficult time with all three of them. M119 was the easiest of the three, but I still had a rough relationship with it.</p>
<p>The prerequisites for the classes (2 years of h.s. algebra for M119, plus a certain score on the placement test) may seem really relaxed, but what you fail to realize is that most college math and science classes don’t dwell on and review everything from high school. They pick up where high school left off and they move five times faster than any AP class I’ve ever taken. That’s why they’re so difficult.</p>
<p>And I’m pretty sure that when you’re in M118, you’re not going to “already know” a single thing that’s taught in that course. That class covered aspects of mathematics that I didn’t know even existed. And the vast majority of the course seems dumb and non applicable to life (markhov chains and stochastic processes, for instance) and for those reasons it’s really tough to grasp. Nobody in the class had learned the material before and it was a battle for everyone.</p>