<p>We live in a city where public schools are not very good. We put my son in a prestigious, pricey high school and he did good and got into a top university. Now my daughter does not want to attend the same school. To top this we may move to another location where schools are worse than where we are. We have two options, sell the house and move to another county in this city where there is a public school which every year sends kids to top universities and ivy leagues. This would mean parents living in two different cities, getting together on weekends. Option two would be to move to the new city where the best private school has not sent any kids to any top universities. Is name recognition that important? Will it be easier for my daughter to get into top schools if the high school already has a history of sending kids in the prior year to them or is it just a myth ?. My daughter is quite intelligent and if challenged enough we feel she stands a good chance of getting in to a top university. Will the high school she attends increase or decrease her chances?</p>
<p>I hope I don't come across as flaming you on your first post, but I have a problem with the whole structure of the question. You are already setting a goal of having your daughter in a "top university" or an Ivy league school. What does she what? What does she want to major in? You've got to look for the best fit for what your student wants and needs.</p>
<p>A simple example would be if your daughter wanted to teach school in her home state. Then the top education school in your state would be the best fit. Another example would be if your daughter wants to be a Senator or the President of the US. Then Harvard, Yale, or Princeton might be the best for a future career (whether it's a fit or not would still have to be answered).</p>
<p>We parents somehow get caught up in the prestige thing, and on CC we all talk about the top colleges. But I brought my son's attention to a school I thought would be a good fit for him, even though it's like number 99 on the USNews rankings and even though his academic record, GPA, ACT/SAT scores and leadership activities would qualify him for a school with a more recognized name. When we visited, he loved it. Because of his record, he will get scholarship money, he felt very recruited there, and he might have very good luck with some of the excellent internships the department has. They made him feel special, it had the programs he wanted, and he felt at home on the campus. Plus, old Pop here is not going to go broke sending him to college. And what's wrong with that?</p>
<p>As we can see here on CC over and over again, no matter what school you come from, no matter how good your record is, getting into the more popular schools is a crapshoot. There are just too many highly qualified people applying. In addition, read some of the comments from the students recently deferred or rejected from these schools. Their self-esteem is at rock bottom.</p>
<p>Anyway, you may get some different opinions from some of the parents here, but that's my view.</p>
<ul>
<li>Bob (digi)</li>
</ul>
<p>Digi
my daughter looks up to her brother and wants to be like him or better. So far she has been doing just that. We do not compare or ask her to be like our son. She has big dreams of going to schools like Harvard or Yale. As parents we feel we should make sure we give her the right tools for it. She may or may not make it to a top university but that seems to be what she wants. As for us we would be very happy if both the kids considered going to the local university. We are not forcing her, it is her aspiration. She plans to be a pedeatrician as she loves kids.</p>
<p>Diggi has already covered some points I would have made, so I will take a totally different tack.<br>
Sometimes, the aggregate standardized test scores of a school do not reflect what the school has to offer to different subgroups within the student body. That is true of my kids'school where the aggregate test scores are below the national average, but the test scores of the high achieving kids are above. That is because a larger proportion of the lower-achieving kids take the standardized tests than in most schools.
So I would look into what the high school has to offer in the way of challenging classes, talk to teachers and if possible some students. ECs are important. Someone who moved from our city with its very diverse student population to a university town with a terrific high school just wrote back that the science team at the new high school just does not compare with ours. Look into ways that you could enrich your child's education outside school (provided she is interested in such enrichment opportunities).
If I were an adcom looking at the application of a good student from a mediocre public high school and comparing it with the application of a good student from a private school that has not succeeded in sending students to top schools, I would opt for the former.</p>
<p>I started to answer, and erased my first answer, but here comes some of it back.
Marite is advice is very good. There is some evidence that very top students (vals and sals) from non-competitive high schools have a better chance at the absolutely most selective colleges than students from the highly competitive prep schools. But it requires drive and a vision from the student - the parent can help, but it mostly comes from the child. The grades, test scores, classes (this can be a problem at large high schools , can she take the most rigorous coursework, or does scheduling become an issue?), some ECs, all have to be in place - but you have an idea from your son's experience what it takes. The public school kids here seem to have the biggest problem with lack of support from overworked counselors, and lack of contact with counselors so that rec letters are generic.</p>
<p>My question back to you is "why doesn't she want to go to the private school?" - the answer to that question really impacts what her expectations are, how she will succeed or not at the public school.</p>
<p>Cangel
My son had a really bad experience socially at that school. These were rich kids, who already had their set of friends and even though academically it did wonders for him, the social scene was a disaster. My daughter on the other hand is a social butterfly and a very happy go lucky child. She has the impression that kids who go to private schools are snobbish and she will be better off in a public school (where she is now and having a great time). After going through the most gut wrenching 4 yrs of high school for my son we wonder if we made a mistake in putting him there and are weary to repeat it for my daughter.</p>
<p>Our public schools are not so great. 1/4 to 1/3 of the students in the city attend private.
Our oldest attended private schools and we were very happy with it. The prestige of the colleges that graduates attend is in the eye of the beholder. I think most were admitted to their first choice schools although some did transfer from their first choice schools. Ce'st la vie. We could have lived in a suburban district where the schools generally are better "rated" but we like the city and want to stay as it has other advantages.
My younger daughter is attending a public inner city high school and we are very happy with it as well. While it has the typical challenges that you might expect it also has a lot to offer. A very diverse group of kids, some going on to Ivies and some hanging onto graduation in 4 years by the skin of their teeth. But a wonderful place, great energy and it sees many kids from private schools transfering in for high school. ( the private schools are usually 6-12).
If my daughter was more academically inclined there is a lot I could do to support her.
as it is, she is on track to take a few AP courses junior or sr year, I don't want her to overload. However there is also the opportunity to take classes at the community college or university, home study, internet classes and study abroad. I think in most communities there are more resources than people know about.
<a href="http://www.ctd.northwestern.edu/resources/advocacy/pavingtheway.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.ctd.northwestern.edu/resources/advocacy/pavingtheway.html</a>
for some strategies that have worked for other parents</p>
<p>The advice, then, I think is well on target. My daughter goes to a small private high school in the South, which in expectations and quality of students would be much more like a suburban high school in other parts of the country - it is totally non-selective. The differences in her school and local publics are not insurmaountable by planning and investigation - mostly the things Marite spoke of. I re-emphasize the importance of a good GC system - some of that can be replaced by a little self-education (like this great website) or even hiring a college coach, but no one else can write that recommendation. Just do some investigating about the quality of the classes, availability, is there nucleus of kids in the challenging classes, or are the kids taking competitive academics totally out of the mainstream of the school. If your child is a social butterfly, I would think it would be very important for her to find a peer group that is OK with good grades and hard classes - or the peer pressure downward will be unbearable. Good luck, it is a tough decision, but you are not "ruining her chances" either way.</p>
<p>Another thought: are there any other private schools you could take your daughter to visit besides the one your son attended? My daughter was dead set on going to our local public high school which is mired in academic problems. We compromised with her and had her tour both the public school and a few private schools during a typical school day. </p>
<p>She found a private (Catholic) school that she liked quite a bit. Believe me, this was a surprise to us as we threw that school in at the last minute and my daughter is not your typical Catholic-school stereotype. I honestly had thought she would prefer a more traditional prep-school with all the bells and whistles (And a much more expensive price tag). </p>
<p>Leaving her friends from elementary school was hard but she's very happy with the group of friends she's made at her high school and has no regrets. (They are definitely NOT rich kids - rather, they're very much like her in terms of interests, personalities, family backgrounds, etc.) Her brother joined her there this year after also looking at both the public and private school options and so far, so good. What's interesting is that he has a VERY different personality than his sister and yet has already found his niche of friends at this school. It helps that it is a larger school (1200 students). So, maybe looking at a few options for comparison would help you and your daughter make an informed decision.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>To top this we may move to another location where schools are worse than where we are.>></p> </blockquote>
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<p>This is the part of the OP that confused me. If this family is moving anyway, why not seek out a place to live that has decent schools. Surely there must be some decent school within commuting distance of where they plan to move.</p>
<p>I can just tell you my experience: my S went to our public school, which would definitely be labeled "mediocre" by most people on these boards. SATs average just over 900, few APs, doesn't have a lot of ECs others take for granted. The school is very racially and economically diverse. This was important to us. When we moved into this town we had little money (lived for years in a tiny apt. over a pizzeria) , and when we could finally buy a house, we didn't have much more. By the time S was entering HS, we had got to the point that we could afford to move to a more affluent area, but he was happy here, and liked his friends. It's an old-fashioned neighborhood where you know everyone. We still get pizza at the same place we used to live over, and the owner (son of the one we met first) knows my voice and what I'm going to order. We can walk everywhere--to work, church, library, stores. etc. We decided this was not worth trading for a "better" school.</p>
<p>Result? S was near the top of the class, and teachers and GC loved him. They pulled out the stops for his application, and he got into his first choice--an Ivy. Previously, his sister got into a top LAC. And, because we eschewed private school or an affluent neighborhood, we can afford to send them!</p>
<p>I have a different take than the issues the OP is contemplating. To me, if I had a choice of schools, I would pick solely based on which school best fit my child and his desire to go there. I would not be picking a high school based on hoping that a certain high school could get him/her into a selective college. I believe the child gets into college, not the high school he/she came from. Granted, as has been discussed over and over again on these forums, there are some advantages at prep schools and their track record with selective college admissions but one could argue that a top student and an unknown high school might be a more attractive candidate. Frankly, there are advantages to both scenarios in terms of getting into college. For instance, at a tony prep school, each senior is vying to get into the very same selective colleges and colleges are not apt to take a dozen from one high school. By the same token, a kid from an unknown high school that has no previous record with a particular seletive college, might be difficult if the college has no background with the high school. I could go on but the main point is that there are advantages and disadvantages to either high school setting in terms of college admissions. Therefore, I would not pick a high school as a step or advantage in terms of college admissions. I would look at my kid's learning needs and find the school where I think he/she could flourish. </p>
<p>Where I live we really do not have high school choices. It is pretty much go the public high school or nothing unless a great distance to one parochial school. What some do here is send their kids away to boarding prep schools and often the rationale is "to get into a good college" and I really do not find that rationale that valid. If they were sending their child away to prep school because the local school did not meet the child's needs or the child was unhappy, that I could see. But some send their kid away solely on the "college advantage" point. I don't see those kids necessarily fairing better on the college admissions front. My child went to an unknown public school and has gotten into selective schools. A child can make the most of any school and strive for excellence, create learning opportunities, seek challenges and all the rest. Therefore, my feeling is, if you have a choice, go with the school your child wants to attend as well as the one that feels like the best one for his learning needs. The rest will follow. I do not think just going private is some guarantee at an elite college and I also think an elite college is possible coming from an unknown high school. As I said at the start of the post, each high school has pros and cons in terms of admissions and so go with the school that seems best for the child DURING high school and not which one might be a ticket into something else. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>I agree with everything Susan says. The problem is figuring out which high school will best match your child. It is not always obvious. I know right now that there are some pretty unhappy people from our prepschool who are suspecting that their kids may have done better had they gone to a less rigorous school. I have heard the comment, "I can't believe we spent $100K for our son/daughter to go to Unselective U." numerous times as the early denials and deferrals are coming out and things are not looking good. On the other hand, a top student from such a prep school does have an advantage over a top student from an unknown school because the prep school is more of an known element to the adcoms. The trick is predicting whether the top student would remain there in a more competitive environment where the grades are far less generous. I always felt that my older son benefitted from a transfer from Select Prep to Grade Inflated Catholic as his mediocre grades were a definite obstacle to the more selective colleges. His peers at Select Prep with similar stats but the same track record in grades that S had freshman and sophomore years, did not get into the colleges with the selectivities that S did with his honors grades.</p>
<p>We homeschool here even though we live in a school district that supposedly has good schools. I grew up in another school district not far from here; my wife grew up overseas. I went to public school throughout my life (even all my higher education was in public universities) and my wife went to public school in her (then very poor) home country for elementary school and private boarding school for junior and senior high. </p>
<p>Peer groups matter. Individuals on the school staff matter. It's impossible to say whether one school or another is better for YOUR child. Neither my wife nor I wanted to do the same thing for our children that we experienced as children--even though we acknowledge our parents meant to do the best for us they could--so we are trying something completely different. So far we are quite pleased with the results. I can't report any personal experience with college admission in this generation yet, as our children are still too young to apply to college. But my oldest son is on track to be able to be as competitive as any other applicant at the top colleges for his favorite subjects. And he has a peer group here (from the children of our homeschooling support group) who support and share his academic ambitions and don't look down on him no matter how little money we have.</p>
<p>I had this conversation yesterday with some folks in the NY office of my law firm. These are the most sophisticated folks I know where education is concerned. With my last yo start high school in a year and one half, I am rethinking my philosophy. I must say, children that I know who go to the top New England prep schools, the Choates and Andovers, seem to love these schools and ger an amazing education. I'd love to know if you agree. My older kids have gone to a great day school, but small classes have made this school limited. I went to inner city publics and did fine. It's starting to seem that choosing a HS is all about fit in the way college is if you are fortunate to have the resources to move or pay for private schools. I am planning a prep school tour to see for myself, including the 2 good schools in the Santa Barbara area. Any opinions?</p>
<p>Kirmum:
As you say, it really is a matter of fit. We considered a private school for our S that is way more challenging than his public hs, but in the end, we decided to stay with the public hs. First, of course, there was the matter of cost. Although it is not the most expensive, as it is a day school, four years of that school would have amounted to two years of college. Then, there was the daily commute. It would be 45 minutes by public transport vs. 20 minutes' walk. This also would have an impact on ECs (very limited owing to size of private school and transportation issues). Staying put in the public hs gave S the chance to take college courses. Finally, and this was important to us, the private school was overwhelmingly white and Asian whereas the public school is very diverse.
Our S's experience in the public hs has been mixed owing to some ill-advised attemtps to completely restructure the school and overhaul the pedagogy. But things have settled down and improved greatly over the last couple of years. Besides the college classes, we have been able to pay for expensive summer camps and other enrichment opportunities thanks to the tuition money we saved. More importantly, S has an amazing group of friends through his school-based ECs and his summer camp experiences. Six kids from his hs have gotten in EA at Harvard this year, at least one (a URM NMSF) has gotten in EA at Yale, and that's info coming only from among S's circle of friends.
That said, I know kids who are very very happy at Andover and Choates and other prep schools. These schools do provide a wonderful education and great opportunities for ECs. They are known to college adcoms. But one also has to take into account that the competition to get into Ivies at these prep schools is fierce.
If your child is going to a decent high school, I would suggest weighing very carefully the pros and cons of sending him/her to a private school. If the school is mediocre and the child is unlikely to thrive there and you can afford the private school tuition, then, by all means, go for the private school.</p>
<p>I also had S in average public HS, choosing for location (walking distance), cost, and local friends. He is first to go to his college, and his close friend just got into Princeton, another first. Don't yet know where others accepted. Most kids apply to state or other Southern schools. The nearest private schools focus far more on packaging kids for colleges all around the country.
Rising to the top in a public HS has many advantages in terms of gaining self-confidence and receiving teacher support. Its not just academics. S's friend is a musician, and has been encouraged all the way thru.</p>
<p>I might add that all that I posted before on this topic might hold true for anyone making this decision but I should say that in our own case, going private means sending a kid to boarding school so there is that element as well and we wanted our children to grow up at home, plus many of the ECs they like are here too. As well, we could not have afforded boarding school for two kids, let alone college. When I hear and read about those prep schools, I have no doubt that in particular my oldest D would have loved it. But in some ways, I think being in a public school with diverse types of kids and other aspects had other benefits and she made the most of her high school years. Then, I think what she worked toward, to be in a challenging private college, she now is getting to experience. It was worth the wait. </p>
<p>My youngest child probably would have loved a performing arts boarding school as we do not have performing arts high schools in our state. However, I think we have pieced together a similar experience, albeit involving lots of driving on our part but when we put together her public school experiences (which include some performing arts) and all the EC activities that we drive far and wide for seven days per week, she has gotten all she needed in the high school years and will now have a chance to move onto a performing arts college degree and get more of that intense environment at that time. Like Marite's kids, our kids' public school experiences have been augmented by activities outside of school, as well as enriching summer programs in their areas of interest. </p>
<p>While I don't doubt that my kids would have gotten a better high school education at an Exeter or Interlochen, they did just fine here, have been enriched, have excelled and one so far got into schools of her dreams and the other, we are waiting to see. </p>
<p>I would only pick a private school if there were reasons that it was a much better fit or the child was immensely unhappy at the public but I still don't think that which school they went to affected where they can go to college. One is at Ivy and one is hoping for the highly selective programs in her field. The one who is at an Ivy, so far, is exceling in her coursework which only shows me that it is the kid, not the high school, that gets into college.....that despite coming from a rural public high school and being mixed in with kids from numerous private prep schools and highly regarded publics, she is still achieving because of her own motivations to do so and she was prepared just fine apparently. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>Kirmum--My D and S went to an NE prep and loved it. Dadstheword and I were grads of public schools, but wanted something different for our kids. Our kids didn't go with the intention of getting into HYP. You might want to go to the Old CC board and read Bigblue's post (I think it was in June). Bigblue went to Andover and was very articulate about her experience. It kind of sums up our kids' experiences.</p>
<p>To clarify, my kids are already at a private day school. This being a major city, it's $25K a year before donations. Momstheword and others, what did your children get from the boarding school experience that they would not have gotten elsewhere? I have for the longest time believed I would never let my kids go away, that only bad parents sent a child away to school before college. I thought boarding schools for for the unwanted wealthy. Suddenly I'm finding that many of the people I most respect have chosen this course believing it is a totally superior education. Even more important, when I meet the kids I am overwhelmed by how much they bubble over with the love of these school! My kids have yet to meet the school they love that much!!</p>