<p>Problem is Zogoto, you have no understanding of God and Christianity. Thus, you statements are not only shallow, but ambiguous. I am not 62, I was just joking, but I am not going tell my age to anyone here.</p>
<p>Justinian: Regardless of your age, you are never too young to engage in metaphysical discussion. One of the only reasons why there are not so many agnostics and atheists out there is that young people do not question religious doctrines stuffed down their throat at a young age (such is the tendency).</p>
<p>I can definitely do it though. Trust me ;)</p>
<p>Justinian, I have a very deep understanding of God, and even God within the Christian framework (and within other religious contexts, but I guess we're not talking about that here). I can't say the same for you though. I really can't, sorry :(</p>
<p>I can't explain why there is poverty or hunger under God, that is a subject in which theologians have pondered for years. However, God is benevolent by just letting you live day after day. He is benevolent by blessing us with a wonderful earth.</p>
<p>i also can't stand the people who think that morality requires religion as a prerequisite. The intent of religion is to provide a moral framework for the population, but it is unnecessary since social morals are always present. Social morals do not include all the other luggage that comes with organized religion too.</p>
<p>If you have a deep understanding of God, you must have a personal relationship with him. Your rebuttal to me is "You don't have deep understanding of God" That's a good one! You keep saying you are an agnostic, then say you have a deep understanding of God. I am confused!</p>
<p>
[Quote]
He is benevolent by blessing us with a wonderful earth.
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Wonderful earth indeed! Why is there war, famine, and disease then?</p>
<p>I am only agnostic in the sense that I do not subscribe to any religion (that exists today). Sorry for the ambiguation. I do believe in God though.</p>
<p>Because of the sin of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. That is why there is sickness, war, and famine.</p>
<p>but is it really such a favor when he created us? We owe nothing to him if he created us for his own purposes (which, by the way God does not make clear). </p>
<p>You say god is benevolent because he has let us live, but this is a discussion that does not include those who have died unfairly or who have never been born. That argument does not represent the whole spectrum of people of which you intend it to (as god's power would dictate). THis is only a discussion among the living and thus you cannot speculate as to why god has not let the "would be living" live. </p>
<p>And i am pretty sure the world could be better. If humans were to adapt your "leave it to god" attitude, the world would cease to exist as we know it. See how much god would help you then.</p>
<p>Everything humans have achieved have been our own workings; our very creation a result of the fittest survival.</p>
<p>trancestorm, I will answer since it seems Justinian knows little about Christianity.</p>
<p>[ok let's pretend I"m Christian now]</p>
<p>God created us to glorify himself. Famine, etc. is a product of free will, which is necessary if God is really to be glorified.</p>
<p>Agnostic: noun one who doubts the existence of God. You just said you believe in God. You can't be both my friend, you can't be both. The ambiguity from your post humors me, indeed.</p>
<p>Why the hell should those old fools dictate the course of my life? I am a liberated, sovereign individual; the adam and eve theory (if you can even call it that) would say that our life is predestined...war and poverty are already bound to come. So why try? No predestination theory is ever sustainable as a practical dogma in that it would bring ruin to the society; nobody would work.</p>
<p>Justinian, sorry that I didn't know the definition of agnostic. Geez. It was just that I once explained my situation to someone and they said that's agnosticism. By the definition you provide (which I'm perfectly glad to go with), I am not agnostic, but merely irreligious.</p>
<p>agnostic: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable</p>
<p>It doesnt say anything believing or not believing in God, only that it is unknowable.</p>
<p>God created us to glorify himself??? </p>
<p>Screw him. Glorify me.</p>
<p>Justinian: Your dictionary.com definition does not encompass the full meaning of the word. An agnostic can believe in god but doubt his means, motives, and vices.</p>
<p>why should we be humble, prideless, etc. to glorify a self-righteous god?</p>
<p>Didn't Jesus himself, in humility, wash the feet of his disciples? Why then would Jesus serve a prideful cause, why should we?</p>
<p>Trancestorm,
If one believes in God, but doubts his motives and means obviously would not believe in God.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Any idea of predestination is somewhat disheartening if taken seriously, but that doesn't necessarily invalidate it. Tomorrow, philosophers could conclusively prove that free will does not exist. It would be hard to find motivation to do anything after that discovery, but if it is true, then I suppose we are stuck. It is possible to accept a lack of free will and live in spite of it.</p>
<p>Moreover, I don't think that the doctrine of Original Sin necessitates predestination. Christians can claim that there are inherent problems with the world as a result of Original Sin, but they can certainly be minimized.</p>