<p>In defense of atheists, most of them do believe in something. Most (except relativists and postmodernists) believe in a universal objective scientific truth.</p>
<p>right and i would say no chemicals or matter is destroyed in the process of death. Conservation of souls????</p>
<p>And evaluating a person's trustworthiness on the basis of religious beliefs is unwise. There really isn't an exact corellation. And a lot of atheists are atheists because of their appreciation for scientific reasoning. And science is the pursuit of truth.</p>
<p>I don't know whether it is the pursuit of truth or ignorance, so...</p>
<p>Yes, that is what I was arguing, actually. Because although I cannot prove it to anyone else, I know that I exist independent of flesh, blood, bone, and nerve. I'm pretty sure about it.</p>
<p>I guess that would be the distinction between us (and congraf will note that i do not generalize this to all christians since your beliefs are not in accordance with christian principles). I would not be bias in my perception of fellow people; I certainly would not prejudge someone by their religion. </p>
<p>You guys are demonstrating poor implimentation of chrisitian morals (love thy neighbor/forgive thy enemy hahaha). Though i draw no conclusions, i deduce the faults of christianity to be from intolerance of people like you (the fatality of inclusionism).</p>
<p>Exactly, its something personal and this argument will not change any minds (but hopefully make idle minds THINK) so that is my only purpose for this discussion. I know there is no chance of an athiest "converting", I guess it would be, to the ranks of athiesm.</p>
<p>Thank you trancestorm for introducing my next point:
What principles do you live by if you are an athiest. You say you belief in nothing therefore you have no principles. Am I correct?</p>
<p>Someone earlier made a comment about Ancient Greece being an essentially nonreligious society. That was incorrect, I believe. There were many Greek gods and goddesses and many temples and oracles dedicated to them.</p>
<p>They were polytheistic, but they probably BELIEVED more than our society today. A side note: that is why Oedipus Rex, by Sophocles, was written because people were beginning to lose faith in the gods by so-called intellectuals and scholars.</p>
<p>read page 32-33 (willmington)...we already went into this. Morals are derived from society and social welfare, not religion. Do not interchange the world belief and principles (in the sense of morality). "Religious morality" is at best outdated since it cannot account for present situations; not to mention it is for the most part disregarded. Morals are derived from social conditions and social welfare (we understand that if everyone killed each other, it would not be in the best interest of anyone, thus we infer that killing is not moral). Rational social interest is all it is.</p>
<p>To put it simply,
If you think that the majority of criminals in jail are atheist, you are mistaken.</p>
<p>
Thank you trancestorm for introducing my next point: What principles do you live by if you are an athiest. You say you belief in nothing therefore you have no principles. Am I correct?
</p>
<p>Now really. Was that a serious question? Even if he "believed in nothing" it would only be in a religious context (ie. a higher power). I hope you're not implying atheists have no principles; it's not as if atheists are refrained from being responsible citizens contributing to society.</p>
<p>^^ i like your explaination better :)</p>
<p>"You guys are demonstrating poor implimentation of chrisitian morals "
??? On the internet I can't tell if that was sarcasm or not :P</p>
<p>I suppose some morals and such are from society, but (for me at least) some DO derive from religion. </p>
<p>And I'm not THAT ;) disillusioned to think criminals are athiests, but I don't know if I respect them as much as others. I will say that I don't personally know any athiests so I shouldn't be quick to judge.</p>
<p>and how do you quote things?...i think that would be useful for consgraf and me</p>
<p>"Now really. Was that a serious question? Even if he "believed in nothing" it would only be in a religious context (ie. a higher power). I hope you're not implying atheists have no principles; it's not as if atheists are refrained from being responsible citizens contributing to society."</p>
<p>I was trying to make a point, I don't honestly believe that if you have no religion you have no morals.</p>
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<p>So, trancestorm, you still haven't answered the question. What principles do you live by?</p>
<p>"some DO derive from religion"</p>
<p>like what? not working on the sabbath?</p>
<p>"??? On the internet I can't tell if that was sarcasm or not :P"</p>
<p>none at all</p>
<p>"And I'm not THAT disillusioned to think criminals are athiests, but I don't know if I respect them as much as others."</p>
<p>I just brought that up to show those with "Religious morality" are too santamonious for their own good.</p>
<p>I guess I just can't understand how you can't possibly think there is a higher power. Christianity preaches that you should live your life in a moral/kind/benign way and you will go to heaven. If not you go to hell. So what do you athiests think, why are you living?</p>