How many of you believe in God?

College Confidential Community
721

<p>Justinain : If this world and nation were governed by Christianity, Murder would be non-existant. Theft would be unheard of.</p>

<p>The bible mandates that these acts should not be committed, but doesnt present society as well? So how would the bible better enforce the laws?</p>

<p>The deterrent is sin which has an unmanifest end. Thou shalt not do this, or else you will get sin. But the sin itself has no manifest value.</p>

<p>Thats another thing i hate about christian philosophy. The whole thou shalt not imperative thing. So what if I do, come and stop me. this is as opposed to a manifest outcome perscribed in the atheistic religion of buddhism.</p>

<p>Buddhism says, if you commit acts dammaging society, you will suffer (suffering is manifest, sin is not). Just a thought</p>

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<p>I agree people shouldn't think they have a right to be not offended. I just prefer to keep things mostly civil. There is nothing to be gained from being uncivil. These things get nowhere when they deteriorate to name calling and generalizing, which is what is happening here. When that happens you are really getting nowhere and it is probably better to just quit. That is why I'm not debating or arguing, not because I'm not changing anyones mind. I just don't feel like arguing with people who are being utterly unreasonable.</p>

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<p>Cong: "trance and effulgent to say that i hate when people judge others, and then call you weak and stupid for believing there isnt a God. but what i love most of all about you two, is that you have no problem attacking christianity but i've yet to hear you say anything bad about any other religion"</p>

<p>All PMSing aside, the reason I do not attack other religions is that there is nobody to defend the other religion. Besides, attacking Islam (in the present society of America where i am writing this from) is not as interesting as attacking christianity since society is predominantly christian. That and i do not know enough about islam or other religions to attack them.</p>

<p>"i cant believe anyone is willing to settle on the belief that once they've went through this f**ked up life, thats it - there's nothing more."</p>

<p>keep in mind that a belief changes nothing. I can believe that i can fly, but the truth is self evident. This is similar; you belief has no impact on reality. </p>

<p>"why cant you just accept my beliefs if im willing to accept yours."<br>
Because you do not accept mine, or any other religion's. That is because christianity is an inclusive philosophy. You do not wallow in ignorance by yourself, rather you impose the ignorance on others (often violently). A passive, accepting approach to philosophy is not characteristic christian behavior.</p>

<p>I dont hate you personally. Taking this thread too personally is not something that i recommend either. </p>

<p>I do take pride in the fact that i have dechristianized 3 people in my lifetime (one of them a vehement christian). I am starting my own counter religious movement. so there is always a chance that discussion will lead somewhere.</p>

<p>"i think that if you hate organized religion, you might as well get the h*ll out the US, as this country was founded upon religious beliefs, i.e, the puritans and christianity."</p>

<p>Since when were you so interested in foundations? Let me remind you that christianity was founded in early europe and look what christianity did to europe. Do not attribute this to "psychotics", because that is the embodiment, orgin, and early implimentation (FOUNDATION) of christianity.
.</p>

<p>Now to jsutinian: "Trancestorm, if you can prove to me a falsity of the Bible, I will cease to be a Christian."</p>

<p>I thought you would never ask :)</p>

<p><a href="http://www.wordwiz72.com/bible.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.wordwiz72.com/bible.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>tell me if you are unsatisfied with those</p>

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<p>That site is so biased, it reminds me of Al-Jazeera.</p>

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<p>there is no such thing as a bias, merely a point of view; especially when analyzing a document :)...anyways, why not acknowledge the points it makes. The bible often gives different interpretations of the same event claiming word of god verbatim. How is this possible, especially if they were divinely inspired as it claims?</p>

726

<p>Dear Trancestorn,
I haven't much time. All of those "flaws" are of the old testament which do not even apply to everday christians. For example, he mentioned the old testament in regards to the diet of no shellfish. That is irrelevant to the everday christian. That is ancient hebrew law. I believe that every flaw on that website was of the old testament. There was another one about Elisha and the bear. The she-bears killed the children because they mocked the prophet of God.</p>

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<p>true..beliefs arent reality...except to the person whose beliefs they are - just like your beliefs that there isnt a God...although i must say...if you dont believe that this life is it what do you believe and how do you explain it??? and if you believe that this is it, my statement ("willing to settle on the belief that once they've went through this f**ked up life, thats it - there's nothing more.") is reality for you, is it not? oh and beliefs can change things - i believe you are a number of things that i wont post here...and that most certainly changes my perception of you. and you have to remember that reality is completely different for every single person in this world. For me God is a reality. For you, thats not the case. I think the biggest problem you need to face is that you can not look at people as individuals...i have yet to read anything in your posts that mentions anything relative to the individual. you base everything on if they're christian or if they're atheist or whatever. get over that, and maybe you wont sound as ignorant in your arguments!</p>

<p>"Because you do not accept mine, or any other religion's. That is because christianity is an inclusive philosophy" - once again you fail to distinguish between the individual and the religion. i've met some decent atheists. right now, i can't say you're among them....but unlike you i'm not about to judge every atheist here based on a "belief" that they all act like you. and please give me evidence that i have yet to accept your beliefs...???</p>

<p>oh dont worry - i cant take this personally as i generally tend to ignore dumb*** comments like those of yourself...and i would just stop arguing with you here, and therefore completely ignoring you all together, but as it seems you get pleasure in the tiniest little things (hehe i dechristianized 3 people - yay for me! two claps!) i would hate to allow you the opportunity to think that you have changed my mind in any way - because trust me you havent :)</p>

<p>" that christianity was founded in early europe and look what christianity did to europe" - i believe i already stated my views on this topic - i agree that christians messed up europe. but yet once again you fail to realize that christian rulers then, are not nowaday christians... similar to your difficulty differentiating the difference between a group and an individual, you have a problem realizing things change, people change, times change...christians then and christians now are different....to help you understand what i mean, since it seems you need a little help understanding other people's points, here's another example... americans 200 years ago and americans now have changed quite drastically. things change - who knew???</p>

<p>"christianity was founded in early europe" - fyi -> chrisianity was founded in palestine, which is in asia, i.e not europe. - i didnt know that when you said "That and i do not know enough about islam or other religions to attack them." you forgot to mention that you dont know much about christianity...maybe before you continue you're argument you ought to do some research?</p>

<p>i do think that you're thoughts of christianity being founded by psychotics is nothing more than a belief, because i dont know where you could find factual information regarding that statement. maybe it began as a statement said by your parents or something??? i dont know, but anyway my point is its a belief...nothing more than that...and therefore it is most certainly not a part of reality...at least not mine...and not of the reality of millions of christians out there... so is your "belief" that anything you say is reality or what? cause i find there to be a discrepancy when you seem to think that my beliefs arent reality but you act like yours are....</p>

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<p>consgrafelope, </p>

<p>Could you please please use the quote function and some kind of indentation or spacing. Your posts are so difficult to read.</p>

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<p>Cong "....but unlike you i'm not about to judge every atheist here based on a "belief" that they all act like you. and please give me evidence that i have yet to accept your beliefs...???</p>

<p>It is not my prerogative to judge you as an individual. I dont actually care what you think or believe in personally. I treat you as a representative of the philosophy you defend. Nobody cares about you, we care about the philosophy. If you do not adhere or believe in the aspects of christianity which I critisize, then you are not qualified to defend christianity for the purposes of this debate. Thus, in accepting my philosophy, you are not being an adequate representative of christianity. </p>

<p>You mention individuality</p>

<p>Christianity, more than anything, fails to regard the individual in his/her own right. By forcing man to submit to, and finds ends out of, his own life/ and societal wellbeing, christianity is stripping an individual of his agency. Not I. </p>

<p>"hehe i dechristianized 3 people - yay for me! two claps!"</p>

<p>Three claps would be more appropriate.</p>

<p>"hate to allow you the opportunity to think that you have changed my mind in any way - because trust me you havent"</p>

<p>Well again, you think that this whole debate revolves around you. Nobody actually cares about anybody's personal belief. This thread is for the discussion of the larger philosophy as a whole.</p>

<p>"seems you get pleasure in the tiniest little things"</p>

<p>we atheists sure is simple folk</p>

<p>"since it seems you need a little help understanding other people's points, here's another example... americans 200 years ago and americans now have changed quite drastically. things change - who knew???"</p>

<p>That was not the initial point that you made</p>

<p>""christianity was founded in early europe" - fyi -> chrisianity was founded in palestine, which is in asia, i.e not europe. - i didnt know that when you said "That and i do not know enough about islam or other religions to attack them." you forgot to mention that you dont know much about christianity...maybe before you continue you're argument you ought to do some research?"</p>

<p>Forgive me, perhaps my choice of words was wrong. The point I meant to convey was that Christianity took its roots (its foundations) in Europe. That is where it thrived and from Europe, it spread to the entire world. In a historical sense, from a materialistic standpoint at least, the manifest origin of Christianity was in Europe.; it is where christianity began to thrive. The point aside, i intended to convey that foundations of the religion are not as important as the current social implications. Quit being so literal will you? </p>

<p>"oh and beliefs can change things - i believe you are a number of things that i wont post here...and that most certainly changes my perception of you."</p>

<p>Belief influencing your perception. Belief is certainly not a reasoned judgement; it is a personal conviction. That is what we call a prejudice or a bias--- a personal and often unreasoned judgment
<a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=bias%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=bias&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>"but anyway my point is its a belief...nothing more than that...and therefore it is most certainly not a part of reality...at least not mine"</p>

<p>Your idea of subjective reality amuses me. No matter what you believe, there is only one thing that will happen after you die. This goes for all matters. Belief does not influence the outcome, and your belief will certainly not influence what happens in the end. Perceive life with all the bias you want, but in the end your belief is futile</p>

<p>By the way, happy new year to all</p>

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<p>and of course that includes theists and atheists alike :)</p>

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<p>I started following this thread a few pages back. </p>

<p>Consgrafelope, I try to read your posts but I feel like I'm reading a foreign language. I'm amazed trancestorm even has the patience to pick through that jumble of incoherency.</p>

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<p>trance...or should i call you tanc or something, since you have no regard of getting my name right :) - i'd love to know what parts of your philosophy i agree with that contradict me being christian enough to argue my point ....because as far as i'm concerned, you have no philosophy other than that you dont believe there is a God, right...and im pretty sure that i've never said I dont believe there is a God...so please enlighten as to what aspect of your philosophy that i agree with that makes me an inadequate christian...</p>

<p>no i think "two claps" suits you well enough.</p>

<p>-" This thread is for the discussion of the larger philosophy as a whole.","It is not my prerogative to judge you as an individual."</p>

<p>if this is so, what really do you find to be the point of posting on this thread. you obviously seek to accomplish nothing by it, for you're dealing with individuals after all...and why do you really care that you've dechristianized anyone...they were only individuals? why do you care - if you could care less about the individual why change anyone? why not just go for changing every single person you know who is not an atheist, and not celebrate such minute victories as changing one person. they're only individuals after all...and you've already said you could care less about them and their thoughts...seek to change christianity then, and not the christian people...</p>

<p>"we atheists sure is simple folk" - haha you said it, i didnt...simple -> simple minded </p>

<p>"That was not the initial point that you made"</p>

<p>no, but someone can have more than one point...well maybe not you simple folk... you see, i wouldnt know, as im not what you call simple - i can actually understand other peoples' beliefs...and not be so one-tract minded! </p>

<p>"Quit being so literal will you?" - afraid not...esp. as this is kind of a topic that requires meaning what you say...if you dont, people like you might get confused...now if you would like to talk about your belief in your ability to fly...(I can believe that i can fly)...i could be as abstract as you would like me to be :)</p>

<p>"there is only one thing that will happen after you die. "</p>

<p>prove it...and when you do, it'll be reality...until then, its only a 'cute' little belief of yours</p>

<p>oh and reality = all of your experiences that determine how things appear to you; "his world was shattered"; "we live in different worlds"... all other definitions dealt with fact...and nothing you have said, other than the historical stuff, is fact...and is therefore only a belief, and only a part of your reality</p>

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<p>Well said, consgrafelope.</p>

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<p>Trancestorm, although I disagree with you in some religious and philosophical aspects, I do respect your eloquent and well thought out posts. Truly, I do mean this. Consgrafelope, I find your posts somewhat sarcastic and disrespectful. In myriads of posts, you regard atheists as ignorant fools. Although I am Christian, I do not say cynical remarks to others with whom I do not agree. I have certainly debated with Trance, however I have never said anything rude or disrespectful. Also, consider your capitalization and punctuation rules when writing here. Often, your posts are difficult and cumbersome to read as said by Scarletleavy and spets.
Yo soy el camino, y la verdad, y la vida. Nadie viene al padre sino por mi Juan 14:6</p>

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<p>Not so well said, consgrafelope. Very well said, Justinian I. And I do not believe in God.</p>

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<p>"trance...or should i call you tanc or something, since you have no regard of getting my name right "</p>

<p>haha...glad we can shed the formality</p>

<p>"if this is so, what really do you find to be the point of posting on this thread. you obviously seek to accomplish nothing by it, for you're dealing with individuals after all?</p>

<p>Purely for metaphysicsl discussion, why else? If you wanted practical implications, i can say that when people think the philosophy is refuted, they may make their own decisions on what to believe. We DO place heavy emphasis on the individual. And, of course, we dont tend to violently force people to disbelieve in religion. </p>

<p>We "simple-minded" folk are slaves of reason and logic.</p>

<hr>

<p>"prove it...and when you do, it'll be reality...until then, its only a 'cute' little belief of yours"</p>

<p>Ok perhaps I should rephrase my idea. A belief in an idea does not influence the truth of how the situation actually is. Belief is not an adequate way of assessing true knowledge. No matter how much i believe that you are a true atheist at heart, the truth holds witness to the actual situation. Belief does not and can never change the truth.</p>

<hr>

<p>"afraid not...esp. as this is kind of a topic that requires meaning what you say."</p>

<p>Agreed. the point is, i meant originated in the materialistic sense</p>

<hr>

<p>"oh and reality = all of your experiences that determine how things appear to you; "his world was shattered"; "we live in different worlds"... all other definitions dealt with fact...and nothing you have said, other than the historical stuff, is fact...and is therefore only a belief, and only a part of your reality"</p>

<p>The problem is that you are intertwining belief and perception. To you, belief and perception go hand in hand. This is where the problem lies. Your perception (experiences, inductions, etc) should be used to formulate your beliefs. Rather, when you place such emphasis on belief as you have done with your relativistic outlook, your beliefs dictate your perceptions and this is where prejudice occurs. Your ability to perceive is obstructed by the preconceived notions given by belief. </p>

<p>Refer back to my other post, belief implies the formulation of opinion on faith (not necessarily consisting of reason and logic). When belief is used in the perception of reality, it undoubtedly becomes prejudice (you prejudge a situation based on a value criterion that does not necessarily consist of reason). It is a subjective personal conviction. That is undoubtedly bias--- a personal and often unreasoned judgment
<a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=bias%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=bias&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Address this point instead of the technicalities.</p>

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<p>I absolutely agree Justinian. I think we are all mature enough to keep this off of a personal level. All friends in the end right? :)</p>

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<p>Nah, i dont trust atheists.</p>

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<p>^^^^Yes, I agree that atheism is just something I could not get over in someone. I'm not sure if I think of it as an ignorance or what, because you have to believe in something. But on the grand scheme of things I won't be rude to them or uncivil to them.</p>

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<p>Matter and energy cannot be destroyed; they can be converted into one another, and change form, but nothing is lost. Existence would seem to be no different. I know that I exist, as a being, as something independent of this world. I cannot prove it to you, but I'm pretty sure that I do exist. Can that which exists be destroyed? Matter and energy cannot be destroyed; they can be converted into one another, and change form, but nothing is lost. Existence would seem to be no different, at least that is the way that I see it.</p>