<p>If God created the universe out of nothing and nothing existed before the universe. Then who created God? Another God? This seems like a logical paradox. Maybe God created himself. LOL :)</p>
<p>
[quote]
If God were to suddenly, physically show himself, without any reason to doubt whatsoever, then NOBODY would have a reason not to believe...Nobody would ever do anything bad again... ever. This completely defeats the purpose of using this world as a test to see who has the self control and worth to be granted eternal paradise.
[/quote]
Why then would a benevolent god allow people to be misled? This is like a teacher having the option to have all his/her students learn the material perfectly. Instead, they teach in a way such that only a few students come to a realization of the coursework. This is neither justified nor practical. Why would god allow some of his "children" to lead lives of ignorance when he could very easily ensure truth for all? I thought he was a loving, kind, forgiving, benevolent, and enlightened god.</p>
<p>"2) "Near-death, out of body" experiences.</p>
<p>There's never been any evidence anywhere of anything actually happening during this kind of thing. There's tons of rumors (I heard from my older brother's friend that this happens...) but nothing special. It's unbelievable that on essentially nothing whatsoever, he immediately concludes god exists"</p>
<p>Actually these have been completely proven to happen and a logical explanation of lack of oxygen and certain drugs causing similar reactions but I can't remember it exactly so don't quote me on it. But you are right in concluding that just because there are out-of-body experiences doesn't conclude a God.</p>
<p>Everybody says miracles make a definitive God. There are so many things that are considered "miracles" it's hard to understand what people mean. Take rogue waves for instance. They are these Giant waves that can rise out of seemingly normal conditions. The physics to prove their existence, how, and where have been calculated. I'm not saying every miracle has a scientific explanation but it just seems primitive to take something we don't understand and just shout "miracle! there must be a God." That isn't logical and it isn't worthy of consideration.</p>
<p>I agree with one of the most recent persons that I don't think anyone can prove or disprove a God. But what I don't like is having religion forced on me "because it is the right thing to do" or because that is the way this country is going right now. That is wrong. And a wrong reason to believe in God.</p>
<p>C'mon there is no such thing as god, why do people always have to bring this topic to discussion. There is nothing to discuss because he does not even exist. I am willing to accept money from everyone who disagrees and I will tripple their money if he appears and tells everyone that he exists. :) :) :) Why not try do discuss something more meaningful like the abolition of minimum wage.</p>
<p>Noob: Religion is a very important part of many people's lives. You can't just dismiss it like that, even if you're right and there isn't a God. Not to mention that what you said sounds conceited and close-minded: "I'm right, and you're wrong, but I'm not going to listen to you or tell you why I believe what I believe, because I'm right and you're wrong."</p>
<p>"You can't just dismiss it like that..." I just did.<br>
"Religion is a very important part of many people's lives" It is also responsible for ending many lives. Religion is for people that don't have the capacity to think for themselves. It doesn't have much purpose because many religious people disobey their religios codes so much it's a joke and they think that they are more moral and better than other people because the go to church. That is hypocrisy to a worst degree. I am not closed minded, I consider and compare countless ideas before i adapt them.</p>
<p>Would anyone mind tallying up all the posts to see who is a believer/agnostic/atheist?</p>
<p>Some people say that humans have a psychological need to create God and that without this perception of a higher being, they would go crazy.</p>
<pre><code> I, personally, believe that there is a God and that we do go somewhere when we die. Otherwise, you can keep asking yourself what the meaning of life is and never come to an answer. I don't want people to think that I am preaching or anything, but look at Mount Rushmore, it was created by a bunch of people. Do you think that if we waited a couple of millions of years that a mountain completely identical to that would just spring up out of nowhere? Now compare this with people.
I don't quite agree with the "religion ends many lives" argument. Religion never talks about ending lives, people misuse religion for their own personal gain. If this argument holds true, you can say that Politics are bad because they end many lives (ie. wars,etc), schools are bad because they also can end lives (ie. Columbine). People misuse these things in any way you can think of. This is similar to saying that guns are bad because they kill people. But guns don't kill people, people kill people.
</code></pre>
<p>That's a double standard, Biff. You're blaming everything bad that deals with religion on people and their own motives. But let me guess - everything good that happens is due to god.</p>
<p>Your Mt. Rushmore example is a strawman. In any case, "old man of the mountain" and other things have appeared nearly randomly.</p>
<p>I've met a myriad of creationists, but I've yet to meet one creationist who has the slightest hint of an understanding of evolution. Some of the things they say just blow me away.</p>
<p>Noob: I wasn't responsing to the fact that you don't believe in God, but to the fact that you said "there is nothing to discuss because he doesn't exist." That attitude doesn't make sense. Even if you are right (God doesn't exist, and religion is responsible for ending many lives), then you ought to talking about religion, so that people will see its ill effects. </p>
<p>You said "I am not closed-minded." I didn't say you are - I don't even know you. However, your first post sounded closed-minded, for the reasons I mentioned in my first response. You didn't give reasons; you simply stated your opinion and said that there's no point in even discussing it with you. Your second post is better, because at least you said why you think religion has no purpose.</p>
<p>Noob is right somewhat, but talking about religion is important - religion is the biggest inspiration for every crime through history. Undoing the damage religion has done will take a LONG time, and we should help.</p>
<p>^ That is what I'm saying your attitude should be. I disagree, but at least this person is willing to discuss something as important as religion, instead of just dismissing it.</p>
<p>ETA: Now that I think about it, I don't really care if people don't talk about religion or don't want to talk about it. I think it's your reason for not wanting to talk about it that anoyed me (i.e. "There is nothing to talk about because God doesn't exist")</p>
<p>Neverborn: I'm pretty sure that religion has not been the cause of every crime.</p>
<p>Don't make these crazy statements.</p>
<p>Religion has probably been the cause of most of the deaths and wars in this world. Not every one, but most. It has destroyed men's mind and caused endless strife. It's STILL causing strife in the world.</p>
<p>Well that was not what you said. Think over what you are going to write instead of making lunatic statements.</p>
<p>./eyeroll @ everkingly.</p>
<p>i agree with neverborn...many of the wars in history and even today were spawned out of religious tension (perhps not ALL, but many...in terms of wars, even most)</p>
<p>God is simply and abstract idea used to tie loose ends about man....He is not real in the sense, as someone we can touch or feel, but real in the sense that we make him real.....God is real only if you need him to be.......People believe in God b/c it makes up for their poor ability to make deep abstractions, or connections rather, so they make up the abstraction, which allows them comfort..........anybody who truly understands people will understand that the belief in God is based very strongly on personality, and ones ability to think objectively on the world around him.....GOD is Dead and we have killed him......a famous quote by ???? i forgot the name.......but anyhow</p>
<p>God is an idea....thats all it is......an answer to the unanswerable....
human nature at its most fundamental</p>
<p>God is a manipulative tool used by all Great leaders.....its no different than "Honor" "GLORY" "Nationalism"......those are all manipulative statements........it truly is a beautiful thing when someone can use all of them well to get his people to do what he wishes......</p>
<p>Anyway, God is a manifestation of what we make of it.......wehn we wont need god anymore....he wont be there</p>