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Not really, imho. I've certainly gained a lot from arguing about belief systems - not from one post or even one person, but over time.
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<p>My point was not about sharing facts about a particular religion's perspectives, etc. that's perfectly worthwhile and helps each person gain better understandings. But to get all self-righteous and attempt to "prove" how you believe is better than that of others is a waste. Why argue this? How does one prove that how they believe in a Higher power is better than how somebody else does it? ****, nobody can prove that a Higher Power exists, let alone how to believe in it.</p>
<p>Thanks for the reply, but I tend to read such things called BOOKS about religion to get my facts. I don't rely on 17 year olds to build my knowledge base about Islam or Christianity</p>
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Well I drive a bike...and only one of the wheels work properly.</p>
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If you want to go on the other "side" then so go. Don't whine about it. I would rather have you on the other "side" than on my "side".
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I must interject here....Justinian has much more seniority than you do. Compared to Justinian, you are a tourist to this thread. Plus, you do not represent all theists.</p>
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"I am going to have to stop posting for a while."</p>
<p>Good, let's keep it that way.</p>
<p>"I will be back."</p>
<p>I hope not.
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I think sydney bristow hit it right on the mark. You have 0 authority to command people on this thread....this is a discussion among equals.</p>
<p>Thanks, 311Griff, Very interesting poem, truly exemplifying Dickinson's reclusive nature.
Trancestorm, I got a chuckle from your comment about your bike. I don't even own a vehicle so you are better off than I when it comes to transportation!
I have formulated an idea to discuss on this thread. Due to the fact that I am bereft of knowledge when it comes to Islam, would someone please tell of some of the beliefs of this religion(ie. salvation, sin etc.) Although I am Christian, I am also open minded. Many thanks!!</p>
<p>Thanks Justinian, nice job explicating...LOL....now can you please explicate this:</p>
<p>"Dreaming of that face again. It's bright and blue and shimmering. Grinning wide and comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes. On my back and tumbling down that hole and back again rising upand wiping the webs and the dew from my withered eye. In Out In Out In Out A child's rhyme stuck in my head. It said that life is but a dream. I've spent so many years in question to find I've known this all along. "So good to see you. I've missed you so much. So glad it's over. I've missed you so much. Came out to watch you play. Why are you running?" Shrouding all the ground around me. Is this holy crow above me. Black as holes within a memory and blue as our new second sun. I stick my hand into his shadow to pull the pieces from the sand. Which I attempt to reassemble to see just who I might have been. I do not recognize the vessel, but the eyes seem so familiar. Like phosphorescent desert buttons singing one familiar song... "So good to see you. I've missed you so much. So glad it's over. I've missed you so much. Came out to watch you play. Why are you running away?" Prying open my third eye. So good to see you once again. I thought that you were hiding. And you thought that I had run away. Chasing the tail of dogma. I opened my eye and there we were. So good to see you once again I thought that you were hiding from me. And you thought that I had run away. Chasing a trail of smoke and reason. Prying open my third eye."</p>
<p>And/or maybe this crazy speak here:</p>
<p>"He had alot to say. He had alot of nothing to say. We'll miss him. So long. We wish you well. You told us how you weren't afraid to die. Well then, so long. Don't cry. Or feel too down. Not all martyrs see divinity. But at least you tried. Standing above the crowd he had a voice that was strong and loud. We'll miss him. Ranting and pointing his finger at everything but his heart. We'll miss him. No way to recall what it was that you had said to me, Like I care at all. So loud. You sure could yell. You took a stand on every little thing and so loud. Standing above the crowd, he had a voice so strong and loud and I swallowed his fa</p>
<p>Reverand Maynard is quite profound I do say so myself... I'm willing to bet he could confound any self-righteous argumentative clown CC has to offer.</p>
they all did follow Islam. God sent them all with the same message to beleive in one god. But everytime the prophet died, the people would eventually start changing the religion, and most of the time they would create Idols and beleive that god had partners. When the prophet Mohammed PBUH was sent the message, God promised him that he would keep the Quran safe, and make sure it was never changed. And this time, every time God revealed some verses, the prophet Mohammed PBUH would make sure someone wrote it down. That's why we call the Quran a miracle, because it hasn't been changed for over 1400 years. So to get back to your point, all the prophets followed the same principle Islam taught (to beleive in one God), they just had a different name, for example prophet Musa PBUH had the Jews, and he taught them oneness of God, and prophet Jesus PBUH had the Christians, and he taught them oneness of God, also.</p>
<p>That second eulogy was quite blasphemous, imo. The asterisks were giving me a headache although I am quite content that they were there! I didn't really have time to explicate the first poem, although it looked interesting. Has anyone here ever read Wuthering Heights? WH is one of my favorite novels followed by Jane Eyre.</p>
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That's why we call the Quran a miracle, because it hasn't been changed for over 1400 years.
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<p>Well, Homer's Odyssey hasn't changed for longer, but it sure ain't a miracle.</p>
<p>So if everyone practiced Islam, how come the Japanese have no history of monotheism? I mean, I know that according to South Park Japanese people have no souls (VERY TRUE), but still...explain.</p>
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God promised him that he would keep the Quran safe, and make sure it was never changed.
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<p>So, the intrinsic meaning here is that the Quran is "better" (or shall we say favored by God) and so those who worship their Higher power by reading about it in the Quran most certainly have the upper hand? Right? Is that what you mean?</p>
<p>Once again:
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My point was not about sharing facts about a particular religion's perspectives, etc. that's perfectly worthwhile and helps each person gain better understandings. But to get all self-righteous and attempt to "prove" how you believe is **better* than that of others* is a waste.
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Well, Homer's Odyssey hasn't changed for longer, but it sure ain't a miracle.
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No, like they tried to test the theory once in Libya, so they changed a vowel. ONE vowel. When they passed it out, after people started to read it, they all realized that something had been changed. It's the fact that it's so easy to memorize, also people who understand Arabic, when they read it, they can tell, it rhymes, it has a meaning beyond a normal book, and the prophet Muhammed PBUH was illiterate, so it was impossible for him to have written it. NonArabs have memorized it even. It's kind of hard to explain, but if you were to read it, like a translation, maybe you'd understand.. (I hope I explained it..)
No, if you studied World culture (and correct me if I'm wrong, I havent done it in a while) when the Arabs went to trade with the Japanese and Chinese, a lot of men married women there, and the women converted to Islam.. Also, a lot of people say, that the Native Americans(before they crossed the pacific ocean to America) may have been Muslim at some point, because a lot of what they beleive coincides with Islamic beleifs.</p>
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and the prophet Muhammed PBUH was illiterate, so it was impossible for him to have written it.
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<p>Is there any proof that he wrote it other than the Quran itself? </p>
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Also, a lot of people say, that the Native Americans(before they crossed the pacific ocean to America) may have been Muslim at some point, because a lot of what they beleive coincides with Islamic beleifs.
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<p>A lot of what most cultures believe coincide with other cultures. This is not shocking at all. </p>
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No, if you studied World culture (and correct me if I'm wrong, I havent done it in a while) when the Arabs went to trade with the Japanese and Chinese, a lot of men married women there, and the women converted to Islam.
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<p>Yeah, I'm sure a token number of Japanese may have converted to Islam, but there is no significant Western religious movement in Japan. At all.</p>
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So, the intrinsic meaning here is that the Quran is "better" (or shall we say favored by God) and so those who worship their Higher power by reading about it in the Quran most certainly have the upper hand?
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No, I mean that after every book, like 50 years (this is an estimate) after the prophet would die, the book would get changed little be little, and never was it written while the prophet was alive.. And if you read the Torah, God had mentioned to the jews that the last prophet was going to come from the Arabs, which is why they moved to Saudi Arabia, because they thought if they went to an Arab country to prophet would come from their own people.. When this didn't happen, although they knew he was the last prophet, they rejected him.. Because, God promised to keep the Quran safe, there would always be some Muslims following the right religion, so he made Mohammed PBUH the last prophet. It's not a case of whos book is better, \I'm just saying this is what we beleive as Muslims.</p>
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Yeah, I'm sure a token number of Japanese may have converted to Islam, but there is no significant Western religious movement in Japan. At all
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Sorry, I'm going to have to research that. I'll get back to you about that.</p>