<p>Maybe I just hate to think that people lie outright, but I've seen a bunch of situations where people think they know the facts, but there are other ways to see it. Whether you're accepted or not is pretty black and white. But is aid so clear-cut? (Quick note: I have no knowledge about financial aid). What I mean is, are there schools that don't give merit aid, but have some scholarships that are merit-based? eg NMF? If so, someone might say they got merit aid from a school that doesn't offer it. I know Carleton only gives need-based aid, but they have alot of NMFs.</p>
<p>There are other examples of "facts" that don't jive. Seems that I've heard about alot of schools that are #1 in alumni giving. Turns out that it depends on how you count it - Amherst believes they "lead" with 60% of alums. Carleton reports 56% of alums, but they include non-grads and when the numbers are adjusted for grads only they jump to 64%.</p>
<p>I know for a fact that some applicants lie about their stats here. I don't know about people who lie about their admit/deny status, but that wouldn't surprise me.</p>
<p>interesteddad, agreed, but to apply that way only for 'bragging rights' is not really a strategy I can get behind either. It's the reasoning behind it, rather than the process itself, that I think is a little skewed.</p>
<p>Some things are not a big deal. I could not care less whether Carleton gives more than Amherst. But when you have kids on the way to college, the financial/merit award myths can be deadly. The fact of the matter is that most of us who think we are middle income are not, especially when it comes down to college financial aid. And merit awards and athletic scholarship are very difficult to get. Many times I would hear about someone getting a scholarship to somewhere, and the info is true, but the award might be a community scholarship fo $500 which is hardly going to make a dent in the cost. I had no idea how those things worked and the big fish everyone seem to be reeling in gave me the wrong impression. Of course, I had not found CC at that time.</p>
<p>Yes, people--especially parents--will apply the label "scholarship" to a reduction of list price of $500 based solely on financial need. It's nice to save a buck, but it's misleading to tell onlookers, "My baby is going to Harvard on a full scholarship."</p>
<p>We had neighbors when I was growing up who were huge liars. The woman told everyone her daughter had perfect SAT scores. And my mother always believed the liars -- and used perfect daughter's scores to suggest that I should have studied harder and worked harder. I remember feeling really awful about it, especially since I knew the girl and her mother were lying but my mother always believed them. This family kind of used their lying to bully all the other families in our neighborhood.</p>
<p>Back to your original question again, tokenadult
[quote]
Can we rely on past reports of "I got in" as a basis for guessing what it takes to get in?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No.</p>
<p>Even if we could filter for outright lies, wishful thinking, well meaning rounding up, and all the rest, you have two more elements that make the accepted students threads useless even as a basis for, as you say, guessing.</p>
<p>One is that the kids who post here are not particularly representative. And I don't mean that in the way the kid-posters often do - as in, we the elite of CC . I mean, there are so very many kids with superb qualifications who wouldn't dream of posting here, who wouldn't have a "stats" conversation with anybody but their own families and counselors, and so on. (Remember that thread a while back, asking parents if their kids posted?) </p>
<p>The other is that even the most scrupulously honest kids posting can't give you any sort of sense of what they mean by "great" essays and "awesome" recommendations, or "really positive" interviews, or well beyond that, the intangible elements that fed into their accceptances (or rejections).</p>
<p>CC is a matchless place for learning from other parents and venting with other parents. And for some kids, it seems to be a good place to learn more about the process. But while in real life, there's plenty adults can learn from kids, on CC, there's very little of use that adults can learn from the students' posts. </p>
<p>Except, I guess, caveat lector. :) And we all knew that one already.</p>
<p>Well, since we're telling lying stories ...</p>
<p>When my now-sophomore was in seventh grade, a classmate told him that he'd scored a perfect 800 on the math portion of the SAT when he took it for Duke TIP. I was suspicious as this kid was always calling MY son about the algebra homework, and my son was nowhere near perfect in his math score. I told my son I doubted that, but he was insistent. I let it go. But weeks later, we're at the recognition ceremony, and this kid received state recognition, not grand recognition. And certainly his perfect 800 would have qualified him. :) I pointed this out to my son.</p>
<p>Guess we'll take his college acceptances in a couple of years with a grain of salt, too.</p>
<p>It is so hard for me to just "let it go" when I know someone is not telling the truth. I really try but sometimes I just can't resist telling them that I know that what they are saying can not be true.</p>
<p>On another note, I don't like the list that tells where everyone was accepted and is posted on the guidance counselor's bulletin board. I think this should be private information.</p>
<p>I guess you can tell the GC not to post your kid's name. But is it really that private? I like to see where the kids are going, and it is an item of interest. SOme schools do just report the schools without names. It's getting so difficult these days not to offend someone!</p>
<p>I can understand -- not agree with, but understand -- lying or exaggerating to people you know and see. But to lie or exaggerate on an anonymous website? Seems to me an anonymous website is where you should really be honest. How terribly sad and messed up that one has to invent things to impress total strangers who have nothing to do with your real life.</p>
<p>It's sad that anyone could feel that personal worth is so tied to the name of the college on the window sticker. Then again, people certainly do talk about acceptances and rejections, sometimes viciously, so it takes guts to admit, "Yup, I only went 2 for 6 applications."</p>
<p>How about this trick--most selective, Ivy type colleges have general studies divisions. They serve as community outreach to allow people to take a class or two at night, etc. I have hear people say they attend X college when I KNOW they are not "regular" students. I think it perpetrates such a fraud and disservice to the students who have worked so hard to make it through the incredibly selective admissions process. But before I correct the fraudulent actor I remind myself of the pathologically low self esteem that must be at work here and decide to keep my comments to myself.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Some schools do just report the schools without names
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That is the policy at my son's high school, which is a start-up. All the parents seem endlessly curious about where kids get in, because the school has no track record yet, but the only way to learn that in an individually identifiable way is to be a friend of the kid and ask.</p>
<p>Well, Trig, that's not always true. You can get a degree from Harvard Extension or Columbia's School of General Studies. And most people don't know about them. So, when someone says he's going to Columbia when I know he's in the School of General Studies, I don't jump to the conclusion that he's lying. </p>
<p>Anyone hear about that baseball player? I don't remember the exact facts, but I think he lived in Florida. His name was something like John Smith--that's not it, but it's common. He said he'd played pro baseball back in the day. He helped out with Little League and other baseball events in the community and became a bit of a celebrity locally. He signed "his" trading card for people. This went on for 20 years. </p>
<p>He died and the local paper published a very glowing obituary, which included the fact that he had played X position for a certain team during certain years. The obituary was picked up by the Associated Press and carried by hundreds of newspapers, TV and radio stations. </p>
<p>Whereupon the paper heard from "John Smith," the pro baseball player, who was very much ALIVE. The most stunned person? Apparently the imposter's widow, who everyone is still convinced really thought she WAS married to a former pro baseball player. </p>
<p>Looking at it in retrospect, it seems the guy just happened to have the same name, be about the same age, and had played high school and maybe even college ball. (I do forget the details.) So, presumably after being asked a few times if he were the John Smith who had played in the pros, he started saying yes. He enjoyed the experience, I guess. He actually did a lot of good--but he wasn't a pro baseball player at all.</p>
<p>My d says the kids who lie at her school are the ones who didn't get into the state flagship or who are going to the cc. It's too sad to "call them out" on it. </p>
<p>The other kids-- well, I assume they're telling the truth. At least, I've not caught them lying. But guidance makes the kids hand in the acceptance letters and they all tell each other-- so administrators, counselors and teachers will congratulate kids up and down the hall for their acceptance at X. So you would probably have a hard time hiding your great acceptance if you wanted to! </p>
<p>On this board? Well, I am sure a lot of kids lie about their acceptances-- but I figure they probably lied about their stats too. That's life. I wouldn't generally think the parents lie but I'm sure some do. </p>
<p>Trig, people who go to Harvard Extension or Columbia's Genl Studies can legitimately say they attend Harvard or Columbia. Both universities are a lot more than Harvard College or Columbia College.</p>
<p>The scholarship vs Fin Aid issue can be confusing though, even for parents. Some scholarship programs are applied for separately from FinAid - but a lot of minor awards are administerd through the FinAid application process. Even our church awards "merit" scholarships - which take financial need into account.</p>
<p>If the student submits for FinAid with a family income of $ 180k+ and additional assets -- and then receives a $ 10k grant renewable for 4 yrs ---Is that fin aid, or scholarship ?? Whatever it is, it's a discount from list price for a family that could probably afford to pay, by most standards.</p>
<p>I encounter parents and kids calling their FA a scholarship.</p>
<p>There were a couple of girls and their moms at D’s ballet school who would lie about acceptances into elite summer intensive programs, inorder to have a long and impressive list next to their names in the end-of-the-year recital program. These girls were listing acceptances to programs they had not even auditioned for :eek:. Finally, the director started requiring a copy of ALL acceptance letters before she would list it in the program.</p>