<p>I thought @MT4Life was clear that they knew the article didn’t directly relate to the OP, and I quoted it only because I found it funny… not to mention that in the absence of self-restraint I could totally picture myself sitting in on the kids’ job interviews. ;)</p>
<p>At my job, the parent of a brand new employee (straight out of college) called HR to ask questions about her daughter’s health insurance. She was politely told that they could not discuss confidential information with anyone but the employee. Seriously? Time to cut off the cord, momma bear! I work full time so I cannot be involved as much more than a taxi driver and carpool schedule maker. However, I am thankful to all those moms who step in to do everything the rest of us just can’t do…</p>
<p>@momcares, MTFLife did mention that the article was “not quite the same point,” but she also said there were some non-theatrical correlations. I couldn’t find anything that really correlated with the OP in the article though it was interesting and took the thread in a different direction. The new direction is fine and it’s creating its own lively discussion. However, if you don’t read back and you miss the turn, it’s possible conclude that what is being discussed directly connects back to the OP. I wanted to strengthen the point so that the OP didn’t think that was the suggestion. </p>
<p>I think part of the issue is up to the staff at the school. My D’s director did a great job of never getting into a situation where he discussed casting with any parent, regardless of how involved they were. He said he would talk with the student privately if they wanted feedback on their audition.
I was heavily involved and D was drama club president senior year but it didn’t cause any problems along the way.
Sometimes it is more the cast of characters at your school that create this problem more than anything else! There are some parents that just want to create drama! (not the OP of course…)</p>
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<p>YES INDEED!!</p>
<p>Sorry if I deflected the thread – unintended - I guess the title of the thread “how much is too much?” and the article just fit together in my mind - more so than the actual content of the thread. </p>
<p>The first 2 paragraphs relate the story of a college freshman who texts her mom when she received a C- on her first test, mom calls back DURING CLASS, and demands to talk to the professor. The second is the story of the mom who went on the job interview.</p>
<p>In my mind - I saw WOW - these are the answers to the question “How much is too much?”</p>
<p>My wife and I have done a lot over they years to support things that my daughter was in. Partly because we just really like the kids that get involved in performing arts, partly because we’ve formed friendships with other parents that way, and partly beccause our faith tells us we are given certain spiritual gifts and talents to use in service to others. My wife is an organizational genius and many times organized volunteers for musicals, plays, etc. We served as presidents of the show choir parent club my D’s senior year in high school (and show choir is a BIG deal around here). But we never butted in when it came to casting shows, etc. I think you just have to know where to draw the line, and to me it’s a pretty distinct line; you don’t ever go to a director and ask about casting or try to directly influence that.</p>
<p>We are starting up again with my younger 7th grade D, who is Vivienne in Legally Blonde for her middle school musical. My wife is yet again coordinating volunteers, and dad is working behind the scenes. Can I say with absolute certainty that our behind the scenes work had no influence on her or her older sister being cast? No. But I can tell you we have never and would never directly try to influence that by going to the director and making demands. Our kids know that losing parts is part of life in the theater and it’s a valuable life lesson for them if that happens. In fact my older daughter, the sophmore BFA MT major, never got a leading role in a musical throughout high school. Plus I used to coach different sports and there ws nothing that drove me more crazy than the parents who second guessed every decision I made.</p>
<p>@MT4Life - No worries. I completely agree with you that the examples in the article are WAY too much. And I suppose if you talked to those parents, they might not think they had overstepped lines. But my OP was more about “us”, I mean, most of us are/were significantly involved in our kids college process (otherwise we wouldn’t be reading these threads) and I think a lot of us have take flack for that at one point or another from those who don’t understand the bfa process - at least I know I did last year. I am just in the middle of clearing up some junk (both metaphorical and actual) from D’s program and have been surprised by some of the negativity I have been encountering. Maybe people thought I had some mysterious power and were afraid to “cross me” (highly doubtful as like most other humans I have encountered my fair share of *itching and moaning over every topic under the sun). Just trying to find a little clarity 
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<p>And to add another layer to this - without starting a new thread - are drama kids/programs (at the younger levels) more prone to drama? I was never a sports person, even when I was a kid, my D was never a sports person (saturday rec league soccer doesn’t count) so “other” group activities are outside my world. I only know how arts activities operate. Now I can think of a million examples of arts kids being the most wonderful and supportive, casts that literally become families -all good stuff. But I can come up with JUST as many examples of ugly behavior - and more than one time in the last couple of years I have thought, my gosh why are there so many prima donnas and/or backstabbers out there. Can anybody with experience in other types of activities share- does this happen on the volleyball team or the basketball team too? So far D’s college experience has been amazing, did we leave some of that behind when she moved on past the people who are doing theater “for fun” rather than are serious about study?Just raising more questions for the universe </p>
<p>The answer to toowonderfuls question is yes, it happens in sports and any activity where there is competition. I coached volleyball for a number of years and would always have that one parent who would constantly question how I coached, why his daughter was better, and so on. There were always parents who felt their kid would be good enough to get a full ride through college, no matter that they had nowhere near the skill level to do so. </p>
<p>My D went to a high school with over 4500 kids so competition was keen for any activity, sports teams, performing arts, you name it. And while the kids more times than not can handle it, it’s the parents who tend to lose it more if their child doesn’t make the football team and so on. </p>
<p>We also aren’t a big sports family, but I’d think sports and theatre share certain characteristics that might lend themselves to drama since kids compete for limited slots, groups get lots of public attention and kids can gain individual “fame” through participation. S plays soccer, but his teams were always very chill (he played with other musicians) and I’d guess it may be less dramatic than some other sports. For some reason I never experienced drama or backstabbing on the Forensic, Robotic or Chess teams. ;)</p>
<p>@toowonderful - the short answer is yes, sports has equal amounts of drama to theater. I have seen parents berate coaches about playing time. Or accuse players of getting positions or playing time because of their connections or the fact their parents are boosters or whatever. And it can get really ugly. So yes, very similar to what you’ve experienced.
Much of the drama in both sports and theater unfortunately starts with the parents. What I see happen is that parents air their grievances and gossip at home (and sometimes around town too), then the kids start repeating it and it effects the students’ relationships with one another. I’m not sure the students would have been so up in arms if their parents weren’t stirring the pot, so to speak.<br>
t think perhaps one of the nice things about college programs is that most parents really cannot get too involved. Many of our kids are in programs far from home or in large institutions- and a parent would find it difficult if not impossible to insert themselves into the process. So finally students can stand on their own talent and hopefully all that homespun gossip can be left in high school. There will always be competition. There will always be mean people. And there will always be politics. That’s just life. But I do think college is better than high school because you take the parents out of it. Here’s hoping your D has had a fresh, new start and will have a wonderful college experience.</p>
<p>It’s up to you and/or the program as to when it’s too much. Some theater programs for young people are heavily staffed and supported by parents of kids who have since moved on. The parents enjoyed helping out and running things there so much they continued. So it is with some sports things. Some of the major sports organizations that feed into the Olympic track are run by former parents, and we are grateful for their involvement. </p>
<p>How much is too much really depends. I agree that you should look to your child when evaluating the question. How does it affect him/her to have you involved? Does it adversely affect or did it benefit your relationship? Does it affect your child’s relationship with his or her peers? What is your motivation for being involved (e.g, spending time with your child? living vicariously?). I am involved in various aspects of my children’s extracurricular activities and am constantly asking myself those questions. Of course, most high school drama departments and sports teams rely to differing degrees on parental involvement. My feeling is that my kids will tell me to back off if it is too much (for them)!</p>
<p>Once the child is off to other ventures, no reason why the parent can’t continue volunteering if the opportunity is there, or to seek them. It’s a great thing to do with one’s time. I’m all for it. If they don’t want you around, you’ll soon find out unless you are so thick skinned, that it’s their problem, not yours. </p>
<p>While your child is involved, now that becomes a juggling act where it so depends,and even then it’s a matter of opinion. When my son was in his sport, yes, there were some overbearing, overly involved parents who did step over some lines of propiety, but in truth, without their involvement and the money they put into the program, it would not have given all of the kids so involved the same opportunities It’s a balancing act always.</p>
<p>You know, as I am thinking about it, people who complain about parent volunteers and their supposed “influence” on casting are really showing their lack of faith in the integrity of the director/teacher. Ultimately, it is the director/teacher who posts the cast list and assigns the parts. How they arrive at their decisions is completely on them. </p>
<p>At our school, all the “support” things that happen (tickets, publicity, programs, concessions, etc.) simply would not happen without the parents. The director is all about the show itself and really doesn’t have the time for the other stuff. </p>
<p>agree @MTmom2015! The support jobs wouldn’t be done but for the parents!</p>
<p>My daughter performed with numerous organizations in several states and I’ve concluded that casting came down to 3 styles: 1) Based purely on talent and audition, 2) Based on seniority, and 3) Based on parental involvement, amount of donation, friendship with the director, etc. Sometimes there was overlap, but by and large, it was pretty easy to tell after awhile. And no matter what, someone is going to resent you and/or your kid at some point in this journey, guaranteed. I admit I have been the resentor and the resentee. We are human. And the business of show isn’t always pretty. But if you enjoy being involved and your kid enjoys having you involved (and as they get older they seem to get less interested in having us involved, and get to that point at their own pace and often in fits and starts), I say soldier on and do your best and TRY to roll with the punches. If none of this were fun, why would we do it?</p>
<p>Thank you to everyone who has been sharing their thoughts and stories. As I was on the receiving and of a very angry diatribe over the weekend, I found myself wondering and thinking about the topic. After all, it’s hard to see your own actions and activities with full objectivity. But reading all these posts convinces me that this situation is like so many other aspects of life- there IS no “one” answer, you have to find what works for you and your family. I loved every minute I got to spend being a part of my child’s greatest joy, and I know the work I contributed was valued by the directors and many many students - and if haters want to hate, it’s not my problem</p>
<p>So I have crossed the proverbial never crossed line. Once when i discovered she was cast opposite a convicted sex offender and again in her senior year. That was the year the school decided to do hairspray (she never auditioned for school shows…only community and professional theatre) My d has been cast professionally twice as Tracy in hairspray so everyone assumed she would be the natural choice for one of the two casts. The director had two girls who had been with the program all four years and wanted them to have the opportunity for that “type” specific role (a lead ingenue for a larger girl…please don’t judge that’s how John Watters describes it) Anyways… he approach my d before the cast list was revealed and told her that he was going to cast her as motormouth (he was very forthright about his reasons). At the time he didnt say it, but he was also very worried about her reaction to not being offered the lead role. But she loves the storyline of hairspray and as a Caucasian felt it would be completely disrespectful and inappropriate for her to play the part of an African American role.
She explained this to the director but he continued to pressure her to take the role. She had two other classes with him and was very worried about it potentially impacting her grades and other potential involvement. She asked that I speak to him. </p>
<p>We spoke to him together and he revealed that the reason he really wanted her to take the motormouth role was because he thought she would be insulted by not being offered the lead. I helped her explain to him that it was simply something she felt very uncomfortable with. She and I reiterated that we both understood his reasoning and suggested that she serve as choreographer for the show and he was ecstatic. She needed help negotiating this difficult and sensitive subject and I hope that ultimately she has learned how to navigate those on her own.</p>
<p>For her recommendation he shared the story and lauded her selflessness and willingness to do whatever was in the best interest of the production. He praised the fact that she was humble and had put the cast before herself. </p>
<p>I believe high school and college should be training platforms. Sometimes casting decisions shouldn’t always be based on who’s the most talented, there should be developmental stretch roles that allows a performer to grow. But I live in the real world and know there are so many other factors as someone eloquently captured. I also believe that these are the years that we can guide our children to the right choices and through the difficult situations. I personally don’t feel guilty.</p>