How much is too much?

College Majors Musical Theater Major
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<p>This has been a rather enjoyable thread. I don’t post much anymore, but I thought I might be able to lend some expertise as a 1) chair of a theatre program and 2) father of an high level soccer player. </p>

<p>First, let me say that everyone has wonderful parents. We all love our children and most of us enjoy as much time with them as is reasonable. Many, including myself, donate time, money and energy to our children’s endeavors. And when we do, we open ourselves to faux criticism for the treatment our children “recieve as a result.” I’m sure it does happen. I am certain children get cast or more playing time or are first to perform at the recital because of money or time donated. But I think that is rare. More likely, we, as parents, see something our children love and since they love it, excel. As a direct result, we find a way to help. </p>

<p>All that said. I am in the midst of writing a book about how far parents have taken their roles in their children’s lives. Not just in theatre, but on athletic fields. I’ve watched coaches, referees, and OTHER PLAYERS screamed at by parents…on a team filled with 12 year old kids. As a referee, I’ve had to send parents away during games with 8 year olds. I’ve had closed door meetings with angry parents when their children weren’t cast in roles that are “perfect for them.” I’ve been berated for not offering to drive a student to an audition, called names for not allowing students to miss a performance for a family event, etc. etc. I’ve had parents call about grades (thank goodness for FERPA laws on that one!) both for their own children and YES, for what other’s in the class earned. Parents have insisted on being in the audition “so that they can adequately determine if their student deserved a role.” One parent asked to come to the first few weeks of classes. </p>

<p>Each year, at the start of the year, we cast all of our shows. And not one year has gone by that I have not received angry emails, telephone calls and request for meeting…from parents. And the most interesting part of all of this is that the conversation normally starts out with, “my daughter/son has no idea I’m calling you, they would be livid if they knew.” (If that is the case, why would anyone do that?)</p>

<p>But I’ve also had parents help us raise money, help to pay for fellow students to attend our NYC Showcase, give time and energy to the program and the university. I’ve had them call and ask us to help their student through rough times, drive them to counseling, make sure they took medicine, driven them to the airport and made certain they had something to wear to an audition. I’ve had conversations regarding “ability to make it” and conversations about “what to do next” with may reasonable parents. Some of the parents, dare I say, have become friends. </p>

<p>How much is too much? I think the simple answer is that you can never give too much. That line is totally yours to decide. But know that what you are giving is a gift to friends. And once that gift is given, you can’t expect anything in return. You are likely to receive all of the things gift-giving awards: friendship, warmth, community, accomplishment, and the occasional smack in the side of the head from something silly. If, on the other hand, you are giving with a hope of receiving, you’ve crossed into a world where it is unlikely anyone will be happy. Child or parent. </p>

<p>Look for my book in the future. The stories I’ve collected are really interesting. Keep up the wonderful advice. I love reading this site.</p>

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<p>I hope this doesn’t send this off in a completely different direction but I am curious since we have a chair of a theater program in this thread … @kjgc you have been really honest about what you have seen from parents in this regard, but I am curious if you would be willing to answer the question of whether casting at the college level is strictly based on talent or is some favoritism involved? Are talented kids passed over because of their parents’ behavior? Are kids not cast because they are not liked?</p>

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<p>No casting anywhere is strictly based on talent. That would be impossible because talent is entirely subjective, anyway. At a professional audition when 500 people show up it is completely crazy (no offense intended) to think the most talented person is getting the part. At the college level I have definitely seen favoritism if you want to call it that involved in casting decisions. It’s more like, this teacher likes that girl and this teacher likes another girl and sometimes they duke it out and no-one notices girl number three who is clearly no worse. Stuff like that. And, my own kids have been on all sides of this so to be clear this is totally not a personal gripe. It’s just reality. And, I do know of at least one professor who refuses to cast a particular student because he can’t stand her. He said this without naming names but it was no secret. So, it definitely can happen. Oh, and that’s not my kid, either. :slight_smile: </p>

<p>Another thing to keep in mind is that shows are often chosen with future casting decisions as a a factor so sometimes the audition is nowhere near as critical a part of the decision making process as people might like to think. That happens in high school, too. </p>

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<p>I can attempt an answer to the questions. First, not every program is the same. Each program has philosophies of casting that guide it through the process. But casting is a very complex set of circumstances. Particularly in a company setting (which universities generally are.) Is casting strictly based on talent? No. Of course not. We are here to serve students. There are times when someone is cast in a role that is a huge stretch because they need that, but there may have been someone who would have been a more logical choice. Remember, we aren’t in the business of doing theatre, we are in the business of training students. Those are markedly different endeavors. </p>

<p>Favoritism is a charged word filled with negative connotations. What we tell all students, and what I preach from the first day I meet anyone who wants to be a theatre artist. Relationships matter. Be kind, be generous, be giving, be willing to receive, be on time, be available in all things and you’ll be chosen more often as a collaborator. If you choose to be late to class, late with assignments, unwilling to take part in classes or are simply belligerent…are you less likely to work with that director? Yes. </p>

<p>I tell everyone who enters the program. I’m too old and not paid enough to not like the people I work with. I come to work every day wanting to be with my colleagues and the students. Not everyone has the same experience with every director in every class. That said, I can tell you without any hesitation (and I’ve been a chair for 12 years now) that I’ve never seen a single director/educator say “I won’t work with that student.” Never. Not once. (I have seen it many times professionally.) Creating a cast means choosing your collaborators. Previous work matters to collaborators. In college, on the professional boards, and even (I suspect) in boardrooms. </p>

<p>Are there academics who are petty and wield their power to great effect? I’m certain there are. Thank goodness I’ve never worked with them. We are, for the most part, an ethical breed. </p>

<p>No student has, in my experience, ever been positively or negatively impacted in a theatre situation as a result of their parents activity. (On the other hand, I have seen star players cut from teams due to negative parental activity.)</p>

<p>And finally, because this always comes up. Most of us attempt to find a way to be equitable in the process of training. It is not possible to be completely equitable. In other words, there are students who will receive more stage time than others. In any perceived competitive endeavor there are perceived inequities. Stage time and “lead” roles are quantified, tabulated and scored by students and parents. It is the nature of the beast I suppose. The “scores” will not be even among the graduating classes at any program of which I’m aware. There are simply too many variables for that to occur. They come to the programs to train, not to be in shows. If all they want is stage time, then there is likely a community or small professional theatre in the area that would be thrilled to receive the talents of these students. </p>

<p>(My lord I’m verbose. My apologies.)</p>

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<p>Thank you so much for your response @kjgc !! This was so very helpful!!!</p>

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<p>@kjgc - not verbose - erudite :slight_smile: </p>

<p>And thank you especially for your comments in the last paragraph about the purpose of college being to train - rather than the measuring stick being cast in shows. On a recent thread here there was a lengthy discussion about CMU’s “no performance for two years” policy, which led to a sidebar where another CC mom and I were talking about casting at our D’s school. It’s big, and she was telling me she knows a number of people who graduate without ever having been the lead (or perhaps being cast at all) in a mainstage show. I like hearing someone “in the game” confirm that casting (while terrific, don’t get me wrong!) is not the end all be all. </p>

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<p>Thank you @kjgc. Just curious, in your experience, do colleges try to “even things out.” That is, if a student has a very good year or gets good summer work, are they more likely to get a very small part the next time out? </p>

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<p>It’s good to be reminded that the primary purpose of college is, of course, education. One tip for anyone seeking a professional performing career: Fairness is irrelevant. Your appearance and demeanor are perfectly legitimate qualifications when you are considered for any acting job. Discrimination is just part of the package. Expecting anything other than the decision makers’ personal preferences to control casting is unwise. One of the most important things to learn as an actor is how to handle rejection. You must become inured to it or you will not survive for long. If you’re lucky, there will be plenty of rejection; That means you must have plenty of auditions. Relish the opportunity to audition and expect absolutely nothing to come of it. </p>

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<p>Jkellynh17, I can’t speak for any other program in regards to “evening things out.” I suspect that consideration is given to some extent, but I have absolutely nothing to back that up. I could speak about my own program specifically, but that isn’t really what this forum is for. Sorry. Wish I could be of more help.</p>

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<p>Thanks for your insight. We are all, I suppose, trying to read the tea leaves about whether our children have any chance of success. </p>

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<p>Tea leaves, Tarot cards, astrology charts…</p>

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<p>You all know about the eclipse today, I suppose, speaking of astrology.</p>

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<p>Toowonderful, I’m grateful for parents like you!! Theatre and music were my son’s domain, so I kept my volunteering to making baked goods, selling tickets and the like as he wanted me to be on the periphery. Thank you from the bottom of my heart!</p>

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<p>@entertainersmom :-* </p>

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<p>@kjgc - As others have said, many thanks for your thoughtful posts, and I look forward to the book!

This is one of many reasons why trying to second-guess academic (any) casting is hopeless, and also why D didn’t place much emphasis on evaluating programs based on seeing a show. </p>