<p>"Will colleges see her as a washout, or can they discern that math isn't her thing and be forgiving? What would you suggest to mitigate this disaster?"</p>
<p>Roughly 1,525 four-year colleges out of 1,600 will hardly notice, and it won't make one whit of difference. Out of the remaining 75, some will care about mitigation and some will care less, there being so many other fish in the sea.</p>
<p>one suggestion for something in addition to the tutor and lower in cost -- get one of the books with worked problems. You cover up the problem of a type you want to learn, try it, if you get it wrong read the answer and try the next similar one until you've got it.</p>
<p>I think a lot of kids hit problems in math or science classes because learning these subjects is more like learning to play tennis than learning history. Most subjects emphasize verbal skills at their core, but math/science is more like a sport in that just reading the concepts over and agreeing they make sense isn't enough; you need to practice applying them over and over until it really sinks in. With the wrong kind of teacher a kid can easily get discouraged or lose faith in themself. And the cumulative nature of these classes compounds the problem. If you never really got the 5 causes of the American Revolution it won't matter when you are studying the chapter on the Civil War, but what came earlier really matters in the math/science classes.</p>
<p>The impact of a 75 in one course on a 4 year GPA is miniscule and will not derail anyone.</p>
<p>There seems to be a lot of concern whether the 75 will ruin the student's GPA and look bad on college applications. As a parent, my concern would be instead, "Is my child learning the material?" and "Have they a good enough understanding of the material to provide a solid basis for future studies?" If I can answer yes to those questions, whether my student receives an A, B, or C is OK with me.</p>
<p>At my D's high school, many of the brightest students refused to take AP English because the teacher had a reputation for being tough and seldom giving As. My D took the class and earned only Bs. But, boy, the writing skills she learned in that class made college writing assignments easy tasks.</p>
<p>a bad teacher and a C in AP Calc my junior year 'ruined' my gpa. But I still got accepted into all of the colleges i applied to. </p>
<p>After talking to an admissions officer that visited our school, she said if a student usually brings their grade up afterwards...they notice the little dip in grades and assume something happened. And just explain what happened in the special circumstances section of the college application</p>
<p>I'm the OP and reviving this thread because I wanted to ask about the next part of the journey!</p>
<p>D worked hard but finished pre-calc with a 75 for the semester. It did pull her GPA down. But more important than that, the bad experience with that particular teacher left her doubting her math abilities. </p>
<p>So, fast-forward to Tuesday, the first day of class, senior year. D looked at her schedule and saw to her dismay that she had been assigned to the dreaded math teacher! </p>
<p>She refused to set foot in the classroom and worked with the grade adviser after school to try to find another math course. There doesn't seem to be one. The school won't let her into AP calc, and the adviser discouraged her from AP statistics. The teacher she dislikes is apparently the only one teaching the "easy" calculus class, offered to students who want to continue in math but are more liberal arts leaning. </p>
<p>Today she is going to ask the math department head if she can audit AP calc and see if she is absorbing the material.</p>
<p>I wrote to two of her possible colleges to ask if they required a fourth year of math (I couldn't find that info on the web sites), but got out-of-office replies from both.</p>
<p>D wants to major in environmental science. She loves biology but doesn't want pre-med at all.</p>
<p>Any suggestions would be great! I would really like to help D if possible. She worked so hard to try to do better in math last year. I give her credit for sticking with it and not giving up.</p>
<p>She is not applying to Ivy League schools but the rung "below" that.</p>
<p>I think AP stats would be very helpful for an environmental science major. My D took it last year and loved it. It's very practical and uses a lot of common sense. A kid who didn't love pre-calc could find herself really enjoying stats.</p>
<p>Hi Mac,</p>
<p>Its been a crazy few days here in NYC with the start of school. Maybe you should call the GC/advisor to find out why your D has been discouraged from taking AP stat. Pushing for her to get into AP Stat would accomplish 3 things: first and foremost it would get her away from the dreaded math teacher and second it would demonstrate more academic rigor than taking the "easy" calc class and 3rd she would still be gettin in her fourth year of math.</p>
<p>good luck</p>
<p>My daughter was admitted to Barnard, U of Chicago, and UC Berkeley with no high school math beyond algebra II. However, she definitely did NOT apply as a prospective science major -- she is strong in foreign languages and leans toward the arts and humanities, so I think she was seen in that context.</p>
<p>I'm posting this because I want to make it clear that colleges will overlook some weaknesses in an academic record if the applicant is otherwise attractive to them -- but I think you need to think carefully about where your daughter is applying and how she should present herself on her applications. She may do better trying to match her strong points with the colleges she applies to, and avoiding doing anything that would draw attention to the weakpoints. I know that colleges do accept lopsided candidates all the time. </p>
<p>I'd also note that I personally think that some of the best environmental sciences programs are at universities that are not at the high end of selectivity. So if your daughter is really sure of that major, she might want to start looking seriously at the quality of offerings specific to the major, as opposed to the general prestige and ranking of the college as a whole. She may find that she will have better options for her field of study for a college that also is somewhat easier to get into.</p>
<p>dont let that advisor talk her out of switching to the AP Statistics.Whats the reasoning for that advice, anyway?
Thats what they tried to do to my S.He stuck to his guns,took the Stat,did fairly well,got a 4 on the AP test, and just received college credit for it at his new University.</p>
<p>mac, Too bad to have to start senior year on such a down note. Requiring a fourth year of math and recommending it are very different situation. I think you'll find that most colleges are flexible on what they actually require. My son (who was however a humanities type) took no math or science senior year and was admitted to a very selective school.</p>
<p>I think a lot depends on what she chooses to take instead of math. She'll want to maintain a rigorous course load that stresses the positive, not the negative.</p>
<p>As Calmom says, she'll have to be careful how she presents herself on her application. At some colleges environmental science is an interdisciplinary program that focuses on social sciences and human interaction as well as natural sciences. Math prowess is not necessarily integral to success.</p>
<p>Good luck and let us know how she does.</p>
<p>My daughter's 7th grade Honors math class was extremely difficult for her and she worked very hard to maintain a B/B+. She did think the teacher "hated" her. The following year in 8th grade, my D had the same math teacher for Honors Algebra 1 and was dreading it the minute she received her schedule. Ironically, D did very well in this class (really high A average every term) and came to the realization that it may have been the subject matter versus the teacher's methods and/or attitude.</p>
<p>Just a thought-- any comparable math courses given at the local community college?? As your d has probably met all NYS requirements for graduation, she should be ok on that front. Also if she can take a math course at a community college, those credits may transfer and count as college credits- so she actually benefits by taking a course at the community college or other CUNY . We are in Nassau county, and there does seem to be a bit of a trend of kids getting college credit while they are still in HS. My d took Spanish Level 5 and the course was affiliated with Adelphi- She now has 6 college credits and has met her language requirement of her college. This was actually a better move for her than taking AP Spanish as she was given "real" college credit.</p>
<p>I was also a high schooler who just hated math. Pre-calc in particular I hated. I refused to take Calculus as a result. Luckily, in those days I was allowed:). However, when I got to business school I found out two things. First, Calculus was much more intutively comprehensible than Pre-calc, and that I had in fact had a bad Pre-calc teacher. Second, taking Statistics was a revelation. Is your daughter at all visual in her learning style? For those of us who are, Statistics is actually easy. Actually fun. I remember the first time I saw probability distributions I thought to myself, OK, this I can do. So I would let her try Statistics. To heck with the advisers - at least sometimes....</p>
<p>
This remark really hit home with me. My D had this experience last year in her honors math class. She had always gotten A's before and felt confident of her abilities, until last year when she had a horrible teacher who degraded students and made my D doubt herself. (I blame myself for not acting quickly to remove her from the class, but rather trusting and assuming it would get better.) Anyway, this damage is so hard to undo...I'm just hoping she finds this year's teacher to be encouraging.</p>
<p>If your D want out of that same teacher's class, I'd find another (ANY other) alternative.</p>
<p>It was eerie reading this, because my daughters experience was similar. She had a bad experience in pre-calc last year, with a teacher who catered to the math geniuses and who by week 2 decided my daughter was a B student. Nothing my daughter could do could erase that bias and sure enough, she got a B+ in the class her only B grade in HS. It hurt her GPA and rank. My daughter is also interested in environmental studies and looking at schools below Ivy level. I would never want her to have this teacher again, so I understand where your daughter is coming from.</p>
<p>Her guidance counselor was pressuring her intensely to take calculus. Partly because of advice on CC, we didnt (which surprised her, since weve always advised her to push herself academically).</p>
<p>Heres how we resolved the situation. She is taking statistics in high school (not AP, since the school doesnt offer it, but she could take the AP test if she wants). In a quirk of fate, two of her friends had a scheduling conflict with calculus, and so are taking calculus through a correspondence course at the University of Missouri. My daughter decided to do that, too, and joined their study group. Its a semester-long class that she plans to take at a slow pace. Shes thrilled with her decision, which really hit home last night when she didnt have to do the 40 problems assigned by the calculus teacher or take the daily quizzes she gives.</p>
<p>My advice: avoid that math teacher. Take a stats class. I think a second low grade in math would hurt her college chances. And as a personal aside, I think its ridiculous the pressure kids feel to take advanced math, a pressure that comes from college admissions. If math is clearly not your thing, then why you need to take calculus is beyond me.</p>
<p>AP statistics is good preparation for a career in environmental science.</p>
<p>My DD had a similar situation last year, in Honors Algebra II/Trig. Very mean-spirited teacher, took tons of points off for STYLE even when the answer was right (which it usually was). DD ended up with a C for the year, after working like a dog. She got a 730 on the math SAT last January (her sophomore year), so she's obviously decent at math. She's aiming for engineering or computer science in college, and a C on her transcript in math definitely doesn't look pretty. </p>
<p>Our HS has a similar situation to yours, lots of poor math teachers with a variety of problems and nasty streaks. If I were you, I would avoid letting your DD take a class with her problem teacher. Have you spoken to the GC? Why not the AP Stats? (In our HS, it could very well be that the AP Stats teacher is WORSE than the first teacher and the GC is trying to protect yoru DD!) You will probably need to go in and talk to the GC, if not the head of guidance or someone higher up. Good luck and keep us posted!</p>
<p>Wow, congrats on that 730! Clearly, she is good at math even if some hostile teacher gave her a C. </p>
<p>We had a similar experience. On the first day of class, the teacher said that he already knew who his "good" students were, then went on to alienate parents at the open house by saying that our children weren't mentally capable of understanding his class. It went on and on. During the year, points were deducted not explaining things in paragraph form using the words he preferred. ARGH! No matter that the kids actually understood the math and got the right answers. Our state math champion even managed to get something less than a C from this guy. Teachers like this use subjective assessment of intangible or irrelevant things to be able to give each student the grade they want the students to have...to make their impression a reality. I would avoid such individuals at all costs. </p>
<p>Would homeschooling, community college or an online course be possible? If, like me, you are not up to teaching calculus, could you possible hire a tutor to actually teach the material and coach your D once or twice a week?</p>
<p>I have been complaining forever about the need for Calc as a senior....the reasoning behind "forcing" kids to take that class are just not valid enough in my opinion</p>
<p>My D did Algerbra,Geomotry, then Pre-Calc last year. She HATED Calc...the teacher did what others have said, focused on the math whizzes, and the others, eh, they survived</p>
<p>Her GC pushed for taking Calc B this year, but D stood firm and is now a very happy camper in AP Stats</p>
<p>She wants to do communication, law, and political science...and she is fascinated in the class</p>
<p>I wish colleges didnt think that Calc as a senior is the only way to learn....there are many other ways to teach kids how to think...and more valuable ways</p>
<p>AP Stats, it is interesting that the kids that are strong in math that is cut and dry, are having a difficulty time getting the concepts of statistics, which is much more realworld based, requires a different kind of thinking and analysis and in the long run, for most kids,much more meaningful</p>
<p>As for teaching how to think or whatever the excuse is for Calc as a senior, why not look beyond the tried and tired....</p>