<p>MacNYC - I'd also suggest another taking a second Calculus course. The fact that you have a tutor (which is a good thing) and your D is an excellent student suggests that she's simply not ready for Calculus at this point. I believe Calculus is a discipline that few are born to but which can be learned over time. [Full disclosure: I have degrees in Math, Chemistry and Computer Science.] It would be a shame to have your D start thinking "I'm no good at Calculus" when the issue could be as simple as "If I'd waited until I was a Senior it would have been OK."</p>
<p>I have no problem with my D saying she is no good at Calculas....I was no "good' Bio...</p>
<p>Why are we expecting kids to be great at everything they do....that is not fair</p>
<p>I am great at math, btw, but to expect everyone to get A's in Calc...is ridiculous, or even Bs....</p>
<p>Boy, and I always figured that math was the one area in which a teacher couldn't be subjective! The answer is correct or it's not. Although not all of my d's math teachers were wonderful (one was absolutely horrible - when a kid asked a question, he simply repeated word for word what he previously said, just slower), they always gave appropriate credit for correct answers. I guess we've been lucky!</p>
<p>I thought people were afraid of physics. Pre calculus is relatively easy as compare to physics or chemistry or calculus.</p>
<p>for help look help at dr.math. com</p>
<p>my D had a bad math teacher last year, and when she went in for help she was either not avaiable, or there were dozens of kids looking for help</p>
<p>I suggested D she another teacher for help, D was worried at first that her teacher would find out, but I suggested she just go, turns out dozens of kids were seeing other teacher as well....he knew what was going on, and helped the kids</p>
<p>It might be useful to go back and reread CalMom's post #29.</p>
<p>The student does not aspire to advanced mathematics, and likely suffers from math phobia too (curse that grumpy precalc teacher). She's strong in humanities. Many fine colleges will be okay with that BUT not for a declared environmental science major. Calculus is absolutely required in that field, as is calculus-based physics. Her HS adviser is right. Stats are for social science majors. Maybe the student is really thinking in terms of city planning or something related, where hard sciences wouldn't be essential. Time to clarify her goals.</p>
<p>some requirements</p>
<p>it does depand on what part of environmental science the OP D is intersted in, but from what I have read, Calulcas is necessary in college, but NOT in HS for some of the programs</p>
<p>Princeton's 2 required courses for the certificate in Environmental Studies:
<a href="http://registrar1.princeton.edu/course/upcome/dept/all.cfm%5B/url%5D">http://registrar1.princeton.edu/course/upcome/dept/all.cfm</a></p>
<p>The certificate program:
<a href="http://web.princeton.edu/sites/PEI/environmental.html%5B/url%5D">http://web.princeton.edu/sites/PEI/environmental.html</a></p>
<p>So this seems like you can take a hard science approach or a policy etc. approach. Calculus could be necessary or not.</p>
<p>I stand corrected in my terminoloy. These links point to two strands of "environmental science and policy." The "policy" strand (what I was callling "city planning") is not math and science intensive; perhaps this is what the poster is talking about. My experience was only with the science-based focus. Sorry.</p>
<p>There are different issues at stake here. 1. what is required in terms of high school preparation for admission into college.
2, what college courses are required in order to fulfill the requirements of the major.
3. whether the student's difficulties in precalc are indicative bad teaching, lack of maturity, or plain lack of aptitude for math.<br>
Not taking calc, whether as AP or not will not sink an applicant. Four years of math are desirable, but they need not be in calc. But lack of calculus may be detrimental for someone wanting to do environmental science. Even with a focus on policy rather than science, there will be a fair amount of math. And math in college goes faster than high school math.</p>
<p>What I saw on a couple of differnet college sites, was that for many of the environmental programs, 3 years of math in HS was fine, not taking calc was fine, but there would be a calc class in college...</p>
<p>Is there a reason for proposing an environmental science major on the applications? Why not "undecided"? She'll have plenty of core courses to get through before she needs to decide, and by then will have better basis to choose. This might not be true if she's certain she wants an intensive science-based program (my D's first-year adviser insisted she jump right into advanced math/physics if she was serious about that major), but should work for everything else.</p>
<p>macnyc: Can your child "get out" of calc and still earn a high school diploma? If they can, then by all means sign them up for an online calc course and work with that tutor you were speaking of.
The statistics course you were speaking of is alright. But, I honestly do not think that it would be of a grand benefit to a future Environmental Science major at all, you did bring up Biology a smidgen. Not that I am trying to dissuade you and your child from that option or anything.
As one of the previous posters stated, Calculus is very important for your child's future career goals. Most especially with physics. If you think about it (and as a Lit/Theology major I think of such things like this humbly): Physics is contingent upon Calculus in a myriad amount of ways. Physics and Calculus go together like peanut butter and jelly.
You really need to maybe, if you have not done so already, speak with your child about their future career goals with Environmental Science and then go from there. In South Florida, for example, Environmental Science basically means real live G-haul science and math classes out the wazoo. But, in other areas of the country it could mean more like the "City Planning" which Celloguy was speaking of.
I will tell you, though. And, I am speaking from experience. If you are a student who is temporarily a bit off with their mathematics, then doing an online course and working things hard with a tutor works wonders. You can PM me for study tips if you would like with regards to that.</p>
<p>According to the College Board, a Math II Subject test score of 600 is well below the mean (644). I'd suggest shooting higher to demonstrate mastery.</p>
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But, I honestly do not think that it would be of a grand benefit to a future Environmental Science major at all
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<p>You know, I said the same thing, but I did some surfing and it turns out I was wrong. The poster said "environmental science," but might well have meant "environmental policy" or something similar. For <em>policy</em> (a social science by most measures), stats really is vital.</p>
<p>So, in other words, we don't really know what she needs.</p>
<p>celloguy that is all true for certain. I could not imagine anyone studying a Social Science to a fair extent without knowing stats.</p>
<p>macnyc wrote at the start of thread that her child liked Biology, so I would figure that learning how to work the Calculus would be important.</p>
<p>"So, in other words, we don't really know what she needs."
That is gosh darned true, eh?</p>
<p>Tell y'all something, though. I have "big time" dyscalculia (you know, to use a formal medical term:) and it is amazing how much one can learn in mathematics while taking an online course and sitting with a tutor once or twice or week. Gosh, just being able to work things hard at a bit of a slower rate is an amazing thing to be able to do while laying down your mathematics foundation for the GRE's and the like.</p>
<p>Cal Poly Environmental programs without calculus Horticultural Science or Management Protection.</p>
<p>Do not, do not, do not allow your daughter to suffer through another class with this teacher. We made the mistake of not switching our son out of a math class with a teacher he'd already had once and whose teaching and classroom management style was very incompatible with my his learning style. Definitely pulled down his GPA and eventually class rank--he got two years of low Bs and Cs in the class, though he had been a solid A- in honors math previously. It also turned him off math; he stopped considering himself "good" in it and opted out of the calculus track. As a result, he had the best teacher in his entire HS experience for AP Stat his senior year and loved it. We've never regretted letting him skip calculus.</p>
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I wrote to two of her possible colleges to ask if they required a fourth year of math (I couldn't find that info on the web sites), but got out-of-office replies from both.</p>
<p>D wants to major in environmental science. She loves biology but doesn't want pre-med at all.
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<p>I really think that if op's child can get out of high school with three years of math, then they should totally do an online Calculus class just so they will not be behind for University. BYU has lovely online classes where your tests are properly proctored and all of that nice stuff.</p>