Those are all solid schools. I imagine it is possible to get a good education at any of them. You might be able to contact school career centers to see which companies typically recruit on campus. It would be worth while to see what courses are required both in and out of engineering at each school. Look at how much emphasis is placed on practical hands on learning as opposed to book learning. Look at how collaborative vs. competitive the atmosphere is. How much focus is there on undergrad education. I am not sure what field of engineering osuprof is most familiar with, but that is an eclectic list of engineering programs just as yours is. Some are powerhouse engineering schools and some are excellent all around schools that probably are solid for engineering.
I would read this short book; Where You Go Is Not Who Youâll Be by Frank Bruni
For visits I would schedule meetings with the different colleges in the University that interest you and professors on your own. In addition have a note card for each school with questions that you can answer during your day. Write a summary of pros and cons in your before you leave, something you can reflect back to 6 months later. A couple of pictures too, to refreshen and trigger memory of the visit, both good and bad.
Most important enjoy the time and make it a great bonding experience
One suggestion would be to think about where the student would want to study (and the options available) if, for whatever reason, they decided that Engineering wasnât for them. It can and does happen. I know several peers of our student who have moved out of engineering into other fields as sophomores. Fortunately their schools were strong in these areas and they gravitated towards their likes. And some of the âlessor engineering schoolsâ cited above may actually be strong in particular areas â or provide unique opportunities due to, for example, being attached to a very strong medical school (JHU, WUSTL, Emory, Duke).
However, best to have a safety in addition to UIUC, since it is not assured to get into UIUC engineering majors (applicant may be admitted to undeclared in general studies, from which it can be very difficult to get into an engineering major).
@ucbalumnus Do you think Purdue engineering would be safer than UIUC or do we need to go even lower on selectivity? It would be super surprising for a girl with her stats to not make it into UIUC engineering (maybe with the exception of CS since itâs the most competitive, but CS has more gender imbalance so that may work in her favor). Aside from perfect test scores and GPA, she also has national level math contests. She scored a 7 in AIME this year, should put her in the top quartile amongst all AIME takers. Would this be a boost for her when top engineering schools evaluate a pool of qualified applicants?
Yeah, right now our dilemma is how to find the balance between overall school quality, engineering qualify, and cost. With UIUC in-state, it makes little sense to have her go farer and pay more for a lessor school. But the âapply by majorâ at UIUC is a problem, the disastrous financial condition for the state of IL is a problem. I was hoping those private schools I mentioned wasnât too far down in engineering quality so they would be viable choices. We are going to visit Rice, Vandy, and WUSTL next month during spring break. Guess I need to prepare a list of questions for them to help me evaluate our options.
Right now, it looks like her application list may only have UIUC and MIT on it, if my other private schools are not considered good options. Even Michigan would only make sense if she can get significant merit awards, which I know is difficult.
Purdue is one of those schools which admits to first year pre-engineering; students must compete by college GPA to get into their majors later. Although it implies that most majors are not especially competitive, the web site is not especially transparent about which ones may be more competitive than others. See https://engineering.purdue.edu/ENE/Academics/FirstYear/T2M .
For a safety, look for a school that is (a) affordable, and (b) an admission safety for direct admission to her major, or to a status from which she can declare her major without having to compete for admission to a number of spaces in the major that is fewer than the number of qualified students seeking that major.
One way to compare the different types of universities is to look that three universities in your state. Start with UIUC, a large public with outstanding engineering and a full range of programs. Then you can visit Northwestern, which has a strong engineering program inside a mid-sized liberal arts campus. Finally, you can get a feeling for a small technical university by visiting Illinois Tech which is a lot like RPI, WPI and other [url="<a href=âhttp://theaitu.org%22%5DAITU%5B/urlâ>http://theaitu.org"]AITU[/url] schools. All three of these universities have Ph.D. programs but the class sizes will vary significantly and the campus feel is very different. If you want to look at a nearby Technical university without Ph.D. programs, you can visit Rose Hulman institute of Technology in Indiana.
I personally have experience with UIUC (BS in engineering physics and one son did BS in biology), Northwestern (I live in Evanston and know the campus well, a niece got BS in biology), and Illinois Tech (Iâm a physics professor there and other son got BS in computer engineering). You can get an excellent education in any of the three and many, many other engineering programs. It is a question of fit and finances. The opportunities at each type of school are different but there is always plenty to get involved in and take advantage of.
If you want better privates, look at Olin, Harvey Mudd, WPI, RPI and Case Western.
For a safety, you want a school you KNOW youâll get into, and that you KNOW you can afford. There are LOTS of options for that, but Iâd pick Utah. It was one of my sonâs safeties and he almost picked it over all the rest. They have great school spirit and a well regarded engineering school. CS is strong there. Itâs in a pretty area and is a Delta hub. Importantly, they are generous to high stats students. We werenât eligible for need based aid, but for merit my son was offered a free year followed by three at the instate rate. Some are even offered 4 years tuition free.
Lastly, you should look at Cal Poly. The CS program there is very good. They give very minimal merit aid, but at $36,000 full cost of attendance from OOS, itâs a good deal. Engineering is very competitive, but they admit by algorithm, so thereâs no âwe needed a bassoon playerâ BS.
Has she mentioned any schools sheâs interested in? Did Vandy, Rice and WUSTL make the list because they spammed you with free applications?
@Carbmom, your D has stellar stats.
Here is what I would say. I think you have a good balanced list. You will definitely experience a difference when you visit those places. I actually have people from most of those schools working for me. I donât know anyone from Vandy.
The smaller schools are great because of how easy it is to get meaningful research experiences with great research professors. The larger public schools are less personal and sometimes more of a meat grinder, but youâve picked fantastic schools. Great students can excel at both kinds of schools.
I recommend that during your school visits, you walk around the halls of the engineering schools, âread the wallsâ and try to have a conversation with an engineering professor. When my D2 was looking at schools we were able to meet with a professor who went to one of the top schools for his grad work. He said that for graduate school, they are fantastic, but itâs not so easy for undergraduates to get meaningful attention from professors at the large public schools.
I have found there is a sense of personal commitment to your kids at the private schools.
My daughter developed a serious medical condition and missed a semester. She took classes over the summer at a local school near home while she was getting treatment, but one course didnât quite cover what they covered at her school. She was able to supplement that with a 1 credit reading class with the professor who taught the class at her school. She had a weekly standing appointment to go over the missing material. One of my colleagues from Michigan said that she could have never gotten such an arrangement at Michigan. He said that they would just make her skip a year.
I think in the end, the student needs to figure out what matters to her. I donât think there is a bad choice to be made from among the schools on your list. You seem focused on the middle of the country, which is fine.
For the stellar student like your D, my list would choose from among (no particular order)
MIT, Cornell, Princeton, CMU, Michigan, Illinois, Northwestern, Rice, Stanford, Harvey Mudd, Notre Dame, WUSTL, Duke, Texas, Purdue could be the safety. Personally, I think Wisconsin is a much prettier safety.
Iâd recommend applying to RPI as a safety. Not only is she guaranteed to get in but will offer significant merit aid to have your very high stats D (kudos to her!) attend. A better experience IMO than a big state school like UIUC or Purdue. My D was also a high achiever (though her stats werenât as high as your Dâs) and felt that a small school would be a better experience. She chose RPI after they gave her a very large scholarship (almost covered her tuition). Sheâs now an engineering sophomore). RPI is known for its tough academics and therefore has an excellent reputation among employers.
My D applied to the following: Stanford, Princeton, Penn, Cornell, CMU, Rice, Cal, Chicago (their new molecular engineering program), RPI. Could she do it over, I would recommend she change it to: Cornell, Rice, Chicago, CMU, Harvey Mudd, Notre Dame, Duke, RPI. (Stanford and Princeton were moonshots for my D, but yours had a fighting chance of getting in so Iâd add those.)
Some other considerations that may be relevant to an engineering applicant, beyond the engineering program itself:
-The quality of students and programs the university offers outside of engineering. Virtually all engineering programs require students to take a certain number of out of area courses. If there are a wide variety of such courses available, a student may pursue their other interests, whatever they may turn out to be. Also, there are students who start out in engineering but decide engineering is not their thing, and they may want to transfer out of it. If this happens, it is more convenient to have the option to be able to transfer to a high-quality program at your same university, without causing social or other disruption. If your school does not have such programs, of sufficient nature and/or repute, this option is removed.
If there are smart. motivated students involved in those non-engineering courses, they may be more challenging. Which may be good, to the extent the student has substantial interest. Or bad, if he/she was hoping to take those non-engineering courses as a âgutâ.
There are also variations in the amount and distribution of non-engineering courses that the various engineering programs require.
- What the school does for you afterwards. Let's face it, you will be an alumnus a lot longer than you are a student. My undergrad U has had alumni clubs in every city I've lived in after graduation. These clubs were active, with regular meetings and events. Faculty members come to town to lecture there. I attend probably one lecture a year through my alumni club currently. Because it is a diverse university, these lectures are on diverse topics of general interest, not engineering necessarily. The clubs can provide an opportunity to meet some people too. I dated someone I met at the alumni club, during my first job halfway across the country where I knew nobody.
My other alma mater, and my wifeâs alma maters, do absolutely zilch, in this regard. Except ask for money. (ok well they ALL ask for money⊠including my sonâs state u)
RPI is not a safety, no matter how good your stats are. This forum is littered with students who made mistakes like that and then didnât get in anywhere. Just because a student is in the top 25% of their profile does not guarantee admission. High matchâŠsure, but a safety should have an admission rate well north of 50%. RPI doesnât. Good luck.
Especially if your target school is concerned with their yield.
^^^ So true.
Here is an interesting article on private vs public engineering education.https://www.insidehighered.com/views/2015/07/23/essay-argues-public-universities-not-privates-are-key-engineering-education
This woman engineer is not going to her safety. The safety is solely for her good nightâs sleep. The best safety is a rolling admissions school like Purdue or Wisconsin that she can apply to in September and get auto admitted in October before any Early Action applications are due. My D1 with similar stats (35ACT, 800 Math II, Physics, Latin) did this with Wisconsin and she was admitted around Columbus Day. Discussions about safeties ended right there putting the focus on the prizes. Wisconsin might have changed their notification date to December, but I think that Purdue still does early rolling.
Furthermore, is her own state flagship school UIUC, going to turn down a 36/800/800 in-state student? Not a snowballâs chance in hell.
Having that safety nailed down before the regular decision applications are due is key.
Wisconsin engineering majors are oversubscribed. It directly admits to majors more students than it has capacity for, then weeds them out with high GPA progression requirements (some as high as 3.5).
https://www.engr.wisc.edu/academics/student-services/academic-advising/first-year-undergraduate-students/progression-requirements/
@ClassicRockerDad, honestly, sheâll probably get in everywhere she applies, but read the forum, thereâs lots of melting snowballs right now. A safety is meant to be just that.
If she applies to a highly competitive major there, she may get admission as undeclared in general studies. If she then enrolls as such, she may find it very difficult to get into her preferred major.
This is pure catastrophizing.
With a 36 and an early application, she will be admitted to UIUC, her in-state flagship, to the major of her choice. I mean who else would they choose over her?
so we begin with UIUC and MIT
she should try for Rice and their merit $$$.
Duke has the Robertson Scholarship and good engineering so give that a try
https://robertsonscholars.org/
what is your budget? even if she got accepted to Stanford, Harvard, Princeton, etc, they are not affordable, right?
in that case it makes sense to shoot for the merit scholarships at privates like Vandy, WashU and Notre Dame. number 1, it would make them super affordable, and number 2, i cannot imagine an engineering degree from Vanderbilt or ND would actually hinder her future.
run the NPC for Northwestern, itâs a great private w/ great engineering thatâs in your backyard.
at Ohio State she could almost certainly win a National Buckeye + Maximus Scholarship, plus be a strong candidate for the big Eminence Scholarship
Utah is an interesting choice b/c she could almost certainly get the big Presidential Scholarship, plus compete for the even better Eccles Scholarship for Honors College.
at UT-Dallas she could begin with the highest AES scholarship, and compete for the prestigious McDermott Scholarship
this list has other good competitive scholarships.
http://competitivefulltuition.yolasite.com/
Minnesota and Iowa State might be good affordable backup options that are strong in engineering.