How to motivate senior to start college process

Parent Cafe
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<p>Child is very eager to start college next year or so they say. Child has made no attempt to start the application process as a result of guidance counselor comments. Maintaining good grades, taking five AP classes and on track. Originally at DE but gc suggested that child take all AP as DE was bad for future. Child did not want to listen to parents and disenrolled from de before term started. Unfortunately, guidance counselor was adamant that less than 4.0 on 5.0 scale, students should go to vocational school or community college AFTER hs. Child will be in mid 3 range. </p>

<p>High school is a top nationally ranked public school with most starting in K. Child has attended 8 schools since K due to job transfers. Last school for 9 and 10th, grades were calculated on 4.0. with no AP. New school is hyper competitive with all AP and Honors on 5.0 so stinks for child. They are not weighing courses taken at last school that were honors level. Feel bad that this job transfer essential messed child up for college. </p>

<p>While there is nothing wrong with the cc route,the child will receive full tuition coverage, housing, monthly stipend etc., if they attend a private 4 year college or university. This is nonnegotiable with benefactor. If they attend cc, none of this money is available and all money will have to be paid by child. FYI, parents are not the benefactor. Child thinks gc knows more than parents and is going to take loans for cc or apply in the spring to universities for next fall :( Child wants small college so I think this is why they are looking at cc (like an extension of hs). Considering a major in Education. </p>

<p>How to get the ball rolling on applications for university? Cannot enlist help of gc as they think students less than 4.0 are essential not college material. Child has good enough scores on ACT and SAT for universities. </p>

<p>What is a parent to do? Should we confront gc or will this hurt child?</p>

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<p>Yes, for heaven’s sake, confront the GC. They are already hurting your kid, how could this hurt any more? Explain the finances, and that you would rather have the kid attend a 3rd tier LAC or a directional state college than a community college for this reason. Get them straightened out and see if they will talk to your kid.</p>

<p>If they won’t, see if you can get kid to agree to meeting with a private college counselor to discuss options. Worth your while to pay for this (assuming you are the parent) given the possible benefits. Give the private counselor the info prior to the meeting, too. In fact… even if the GC grudgingly allows that maybe your kid should attend a four year school given the circumstances, get a private counselor anyway. They can probably help with explaining the school changes, etc. Normally I don’t recommend private counselors, but it seems like this is a perfect example of when one might be valuable.</p>

<p>What is “DE”?</p>

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<p>Perhaps the student and parents should make accounts here and ask where the student should apply.</p>

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<p>Many small private colleges that are not famous have great education programs. They also offer small class sizes and individualized attention, which can be important to help students stay on track and graduate on time. To turn away the opportunity to go for free is just plain wrong. Many of those colleges also offer AP credit for a 3.</p>

<p>In general, colleges visits can be a great way to motivate high school students. Ideally, they would also stay overnight with a friend or relative who attends a college. If the parents won’t take the kids on college visits, they should try to go along with friends who are making visits, or check to see whether the high school sponsors any trips.</p>

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<p>What is DE?</p>

<p>In our school, parents do most of the college counseling, by default. In this situation, where there is a benefactor, I would definitely try to find a private college.</p>

<p>Small private schools will tend to have more holistic admissions and the history and GPA can be explained in context. You can write a letter and include it in any packages sent to the admissions office, meaning, to accompany the transcripts.</p>

<p>I am assuming you are getting sealed transcripts for all schools.</p>

<p>If you give ideas on location, size, vibe, academic interests, urban or not, etc. people can suggest some schools.</p>

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<p>Ucb, normally I would advise the same and skip the private counselor. But clearly there has been a big breakdown in communication between parent and kid here, not a small one. Given the short timeframe until apps are due, this just seemed like a good way to cut through the BS the school GC is giving. Possibly finding someone the student can trust to give good advice. I only know a couple of private counselors, but the ones I know tend to have good rapport with the students, and would understand the story the OP is telling and how it needs to fit in with the kid’s search. Obviously YMMV - they don’t need a high powered “get into Ivies” private counselor, but someone a little lower key.</p>

<p>I don’t think the OP’s first problem is to find schools – although maybe finding a few matches MIGHT soften the kid’s stance a bit. If the kid is still willing to listen, it just sounds like they might be past that point, which is why a 3rd party giving suggestions might be good.</p>

<p>I do agree we could make some suggestions if we knew a bit more (geography and actual test scores might help). Just from what I can see, a few colleges to consider might be Lake Forest College (north of Chicago), Cornell College (in Iowa), Gustavus (Minnesota), Luther (Iowa), Carroll (Ohio), Eckerd (Florida), St. Johns (Minnesota). Maybe (depending on scores) Gettysburg ¶, Muhlenberg ¶, Willamette (Oregon). There are plenty of small schools that sound like they could be a fit (if the GC would just get out of the way…) and would suit him to prepare for an education career.</p>

<p>One other thing to consider is to see if kid will fill out a few applications for four year colleges with the idea that CC is a backup plan if that does not work out. Kid could be scared of college (as many of our kids are!). The GC is not helping, but the kid may be willing to do a compromise “apply to a few”, visit if he gets in, then decide CC or 4 year school. Also… just so you know, the most motivated kids do all the application work themselves. However, in MANY cases the parents create the common application form and provide “executive” assistance to the kids in getting the apps put together and properly submitted. Of course your kid has to pick schools, help make a list of activities/etc for the application, and write their own essays. But parents often pick up slack, remind about deadlines, make sure test scores are sent, mak sure application is printed and proofread before submission, and (of course!) pay the application fees. Again… if relationship between kid & parents has deteriorated enough so this is a problem, a private counselor can pick up some (but not all) slack on this.</p>

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<p>Thank you for your responses. I am emailing the guidance counselor to have a meeting. How do we find a private college counselor? We live in a very small community where ACT/SAT prep courses are not even offered. FYI DE is Dual Enrollment. I think fear is what is preventing child from applying like intparent wrote. Have a very good relationship but when college is mentioned, horns grow if this one subject comes up. Child will not even get out of car when we visit schools. I think this one may be our last to leave the nest. Since we also have other children who are younger but will be applying very soon, they are planning for college and handling the process differently. We take them all to tour colleges and the oldest sits in the car :0 Relatives have suggested we fill out the applications but spouse is against it. He figures if the child is going to get a free ride for school, the least they can do is fill out the applications, get the recommendations and be involved in the process.</p>

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<p>I think the biggest source of frustration is the child will have completed 6 AP and 10 Honors classes, wants to go to college but is not taking any initiative. Child has a 26 ACT before test September 2013 and will have @ 3.6 at graduation. Is this considered a poor student today?</p>

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<p>Perhaps you need to work one on one with your kid and not make it a family project.
Your spouse seems to take a strong stance about what he expects your kid to do.
Dragging the younger siblings to college visits was counter productive.
Reboot the situation and calmly tell your kid that you and he will get this done without making his application process the topic of discussion at the dinner table and with other family.
Tell the relatives to back off with the advice.
You need re-establish your relationship with your oldest, indicate to him you are his advocate, support, sounding board and guide through this personal process.</p>

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<p>Thank you and I completely agree beerme!</p>

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<p>Definitely not a poor student, he would fit right in at most of the colleges I listed!</p>

<p>You cannot fill out his applications (at least you can’t submit them without his help), HE has to sign them. And of course he has to write the essays. </p>

<p>I know there are some regional and state associations for college counselors. One that I know well belongs to the Minnesota Association of College Admissions Counselors (MACAC) and the Pacific Northwest Association of College Admissions Counselors (PNACAC). I assume there may be one for your area or state, so try a Google search for that.</p>

<p>This is a very tough situation. I wonder if he is afraid to leave home… if he won’t even get out of the car, that is not good. Also, combining his search with his siblings’ search may not have been the best idea – some students feel overshadowed by their siblings in this type of situation. It certainly costs more to take a kid out solo, but putting your focus on the needs of that one kid is a good idea.</p>

<p>What geographic area are you in? Is there anyplace in the country besides where you live that he really likes to visit? Does he have any extra curricular activities he loves that might be a draw if it is offered at a specific school? Finally, does he realize the financial ramifications of his decision?</p>

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<p>Just to be clear – if he attends CC will he get the money from the benefactors if/when he transfers to a four year school for that portion of his education? And just have to cover the CC expenses?</p>

<p>Also, your comment about “apply in the spring to universities for next fall” – does he know what the application due dates are for universities/colleges? He generally can’t apply in March or April for fall admission.</p>

<p>One more thought – my D2 and I did a LOT of communicating about college via email. :slight_smile: Have you tried this vs. a face to face conversation? You could try an email that says you know he doesn’t like visiting, but here are a few small colleges where he would fit right in with his GPA and test scores that would prepare him well for a career in education or something else if he chooses. Ask if he will please at least look at the websites. And… right next to the website link, I would put the deadline for the application so he sees it. So if something does strike his fancy, he knows he doesn’t have until April to decide to apply.</p>

<p>One other thing, though, is that many colleges require teacher reqs. And those have to be requested well in advance of the application deadline. This thought could paralyze him, maybe wouldn’t mention it now. But when you talk to the GC you might bring it up and strategize on who he should ask/how to get the kid to move forward on it.</p>

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<p>This is a very tough situation. I wonder if he is afraid to leave home… if he won’t even get out of the car, that is not good. Also, combining his search with his siblings’ search may not have been the best idea – some students feel overshadowed by their siblings in this type of situation. It certainly costs more to take a kid out solo, but putting your focus on the needs of that one kid is a good idea.</p>

<p>Could not agree more on the above post. We live in the South and child wants to live in a smaller community with snow (rest of us love cold weather but are big city people). Trying to encourage child to attend schools in the New York, NJ, Mass. or Penn area as we will be returning abroad in two years and family live in the area. I think taking child to see a few mega campus universities caused the freak out. Had an opportunity to visit Clemson and all I can say is that school and atmosphere is a perfect fit. Made me want to go back to college.</p>

<p>Thank you again for your responses. Impartial opinions are appreciated.</p>

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<p>He may feel like his whole family is bored or will belittle his choices when you go visit a school that does fit his criteria. And if he isn’t getting out of the car at bigger schools, it may be because he just doesn’t see the point. He probably watches you and the rest of the family lllooovvving Clemson and feels like an alien. Honestly, this probably is not helpful in moving him forward on his search.</p>

<p>I will say that we never visited a college without my kid agreeing she wanted to see it first. I did almost of the scheduling, travel plans, etc. But never without first going over the list of colleges and coming to an agreement on where we were going. So I can’t really imagine her staying in the car because she had been given a voice in the schedule. Was your son just schlepped along on a schedule someone else set? </p>

<p>At this stage I would chuck out the state limitations just because family live there. If he can see himself somewhere else (eg, Lake Forest or Willamette), encourage it. He needs to feel like (1) this is his choice, and (2) it is safe for him to pick something that no one else in his family would choose.</p>

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<p>Agree. We ended up at all these different schools as we took a few big road trips this past summer across 1/2 the country to visit friends and see the US. When we saw a sign for a univ or college close to the highway, we pulled over. Also when we saw interesting attractions, we also stopped. It was a very casual family trip. Spoke to counselor and we will work at helping child with options. Will let it rest and reproach Sunday with child. Will look up the above schools.</p>

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<p>Okay, good luck. :slight_smile: If you are looking for more school suggestions, this group can definitely help!</p>

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<p>My interpretation: your child may be wishing for stability (8 schools since kindergarten!) and can’t seem to get on board with yet another change of venue and worse, without the family in-house for support. So child already has cause to feel insecure and fearful. Add to that the competitiveness of the current hs and the disdainful attitude of its guidance counsellor as to what constitutes 4-year college vs community college material. So on top of fear, child is feeling inadequate. Top it off with the younger siblings showing eagerness for the college experience and you have a child who may be mired in self-doubt. </p>

<p>So if all these things are true (not saying they are), in order to address this problem your child needs to feel that there are indeed good colleges out there where he can handle the work and also get into, that an acceptable emotional comfort level at the college is possible, and that the experience can be enjoyable and productive. </p>

<p>Seems the strategy should be, as others have stated, to confront the gc, which you have already done and hopefully will get some useful prospects. I also agree that small liberal arts colleges with small class sizes should be favored over larger schools where child could get lost in the crowd. Of the schools intparent mentioned, I can say that Muhlenberg in PA has a small campus, small classes, gets snow, and could provide a nice, safe-haven kind of atmosphere. </p>

<p>You may also have to sit with your child at the computer to get the Common App file started. The very act of beginning may motivate your child to get over that motivational hump. Child needs to work on the required essays and listing extracurriculars and interests before it gets close to deadlines, and some schools have supplemental material that has to be filled out so just finishing the Common App may not be the end of it. Plus child needs to start looking around for good teacher recommendations ASAP. They don’t like to be asked at the last minute. </p>

<p>Finally, stress to your child that nothing ventured is nothing gained. There are many excellent colleges out there that would love to have a 3.6 GPA (unweighted) student. If your child’s hs has access to Naviance you can check which schools your child would have a good chance of getting into. There are also various websites for the college-bound that can provide something similar. Of course colleges might say “no”, but they might also say “yes”, but if you don’t even apply you pretty much guarantee you don’t get in anywhere, except cc.</p>

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<p>Maybe he is not ready to leave home, as others have said. Our oldest had similar stats and ended up at a CC for the first 2 years. She did not pursue college searches on her own and was not interested in coming up with a list of schools to visit. When we planned visits on our own and took her, she also refused to get out of the car and had all kinds of excuses. She ended up staying home for the first 2 years and then transferred to a small school an 8-hour drive away for the last 2 years. By that time she was ready to go and took an active interest in looking for schools.</p>

<p>I will say that I moved around a LOT when I was young and while I did go away for college, I had a very hard time adjusting. I really didn’t want to go, but my parents thought CC was a waste of time. I think I just wanted to stay home where my parents had finally settled for 2 years and I had friends.</p>

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<p>Yes takeitallin, you hit the nail on the head. If only we had more than 1 year in the state we currently reside after hs.</p>

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<p>Okay… I don’t mean to be critical, but I have been thinking about your “visits” to campuses. Just stopping because you saw a sign for a college near the freeway is really a scattershot way to see colleges. I mean, you can sometimes get a flavor by wandering the campus “free range” :), but colleges offer a lot of ways for you to get to know them beyond that. If you have no idea if a college is the size or atmosphere he wants, in the right academic range, and offer programs and ECs he is interested in, it just seems really random to me. I sort of wonder if you haven’t been taking a focused and serious approach as a family to this because… someone else is paying the bill? I must say that nothing focused my mind more than the idea that I may be paying as much as I paid for my house for an education for my kids! </p>

<p>Some resources to consider if you haven’t yet:</p>

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<li>Get a Fiske Guide to Colleges. Very good descriptions of many colleges to consider. They aren’t dry write-ups, but give a flavor of what campus life is really like. My D2 didn’t want to read the whole thing and asked me to flag colleges I thought she would like. I picked about 20, and she read about them and narrowed the list down prior to visiting.</li>
<li>As mentioned before, the college websites are an easy and safe way to look at info on the colleges. Most offer a “virtual tour” in the admissions section, too.</li>
<li>When you visit a campus, you can usually arrange to go on a tour and/or sit in on an info session. If you check ahead, often your kid can sit in on a class, and you can also eat in the cafeteria. But you have to know where you are going ahead of time…</li>
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<p>Your visit opportunities are now quite limited due to the calendar (if you can even convince your kid to do any more visits). At this point I wonder if your best bet isn’t to try to get him to pick some colleges via the first two steps (Fiske & college websites) and put in applications (maybe shoot for 5-6 schools). Then plan visits to his top choices where he is accepted in April.</p>

<p>I know he is has not been the most motivated… but I don’t think he has been set up for success in his search so far, either.</p>

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<p>My son was a top student but wasn’t taking any initiative and was passively, grudgingly, acquiescing to a couple of visits planned. I cancelled the visits, and told him that it was fine with me if he didn’t go at all, at least for the next year, and that he could work for awhile. This was said in a friendly manner, and he knew I meant it, even as a possibly constructive path.</p>

<p>As I went out the door, I told him that if he did, in fact, want to visit any schools, I would check my schedule and try to take him if I could. When I returned to the house, he had looked schools up and made a color coded chart!</p>

<p>Another one of my three, the youngest, went to college one year and is home, at community college, and it is working out great for her. Her two siblings went to Ivies and of the three, I sometimes think she is the happiest with what she is doing. I am a fan of community college, but I know they are not as motivating for some kids. They do offer a supportive atmosphere though.</p>

<p>Life is flexible. There are all kinds of ways to go to college these days, and all kinds of timetables, and there are more and more options online as well.</p>

<p>If I were you I would suggest that he pick one, maybe two, private college(s) to apply to, just to have the option, but also convey the message that cc is fine (without the benefactor, cc will cost, but not an exorbitant amount, right?), and not going at all is fine, if he needs the time out of school to get oriented.</p>

<p>I don’t think you can let the availability of a benefactor guide his decisions. Would this benefactor pay for, say, carpentry training, or cooking school? Sounds like there are a lot of strings attached to this generosity, and it sometimes really isn’t worth it to let someone with money control what you do.</p>

<p>Finally, I know a gazillion kids in their late teens, early twenties, working in restaurants etc. and they all seem to find their way to adulthood when the time comes.</p>