<p>At least here in New York, the bar application asks very specific questions about colleges attended, including whether you’ve ever been asked to leave. It also asks about outstanding debts and if the OP doesn’t pay off the money owed to college 2, that will have to be reported. In fact, if the college gets a judgment against the OP, that too will have to be reported.</p>
<p>In addition you have to get a dean’s cert from each law school attended. My understanding is that cert also asks what colleges you attended and any expulsions or disciplinary actions reported to law schools.</p>
<p>I think we all agree on this, which is why the OP really needs to consult someone, preferably an attorney who DOES have knowledge of the procedures at the college (s)he attends.</p>
<p>Of course, and with every “process,” there are bound to be (dozens of?) exemptions and exceptions, which would allow the college to ‘look the other way’ for what appears to be acceptance under false pretense, or fraud. </p>
<p>IMO, the key is to find out those exceptions to the “process” PRIOR to meeting with the Dean. Otherwise, the OP is literally at the Dean’s mercy; and the Dean has absolutely no reason to tell the OP about the college’s exceptions, unless the Dean wants to.</p>
<p>Update: I talked to an attorney today who suggested I graduate and report everything to the grad/law school I go to afterwards so as not to disrupt my progress. Thoughts?</p>
<p>Moving on:</p>
<p>@Jonri—I didn’t commit perjury. School B is still on the FAFSA. So no worries there (right?).</p>
<p>@BlueBayou: One thing comes to mind when you talk about exceptions: While at College A, I did a semester-long supplemental education program at College B 2 semesters before transferring to College B. THOSE classes ARE on my transcript reported to School C. Might this count as an exception? Because, technically, in that case, I did report having gone to School C—just as part of a semester program. Thoughts?</p>
<p>perjury
noun lying under oath, false statement, forswearing, bearing false witness, giving false testimony, false oath, oath breaking, false swearing, violation of an oath, wilful falsehood</p>
<p>You were admitted to college C by lying by omission that you transferred to and matriculated at college B and had not turned in any records. In I am quite sure that you college applications ask you to sign the the information in the application is truthful.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that you can tell the dean after graduation and if the school can:</p>
<p>level a penalty against you, it will be revoking the degree; stating that you did not graduate from the school leaving you with a worthless piece of paper</p>
<p>report to every law school, grad school, or job that will ask to verify that you graduated that indeed you did not.</p>
<p>Report to law or grad school that your degree was revoked.</p>
<p>Honestly, I don’t know whether you have a problem or not with regard to possible perjury. I don’t have sufficient facts; if you were a client, I’d be reviewing the documents you signed. Even after I did so, I’d have to do some research…which I’m not about to do. Again, this is a SERIOUS issue and you need to seek legal advice. </p>
<p>If a lawyer gave you the advice you cite, ask him/her to put it in writing. Make sure that the writing sets forth all the relevant facts so there is no doubt that you told him the entire story. If (s)he isn’t willing to do that, you’d be very, very foolish to rely on that advice. Remember that the lawyer’s advice isn’t going to be binding on anyone else. The most it would do for you is help reduce the fall out if something goes wrong. </p>
<p>Despite several posts here to the contrary, you seem to be laboring under the illusion that if you get your degree without getting caught, it can’t be revoked. It can. A few years back, there was a huge cheating scandal at UVa and several people who had already graduated had their degrees revoke.</p>
<p>^^Indeed. Once someone “graduates”, the ONLY penalty that a college can impose is a rescission of that degree. If you fess up now OP, the college can penalize you while you are still on campus. Perhaps a slap on the wrist; perhaps a one semester suspension (time-out); perhaps worse. But at least the college can decide if you are worth something other than total dismissal. It gives the college options for leniency should they so desire.</p>
<p>Once you graduate, however, that puts the college into a bind because that leaves them with ONLY two options: ignore your transgression – which indirectly encourages others to do the same in the future – or completely rescind the degree (with zero chance of earning it back). Personally, I would not go with that binary choice.</p>
<p>Look at it another, and more practical way: if the college is gonna dismiss you today, they they will likely rescind your degree later. If so, then why pay for the last semesters’ of tuition and coursework?</p>
<p>Even if you graduate from undergrad.
Even if you get into law school.
Even if you graduate from law school.</p>
<p>There is no way to know if you will be admitted to the bar. </p>
<p>You could ask different state bars now, but their answers won’t be binding on what they decide in the future. And some states have you take the exam first, then do the background check/ethics interview once you pass (NY and MD, that I know of–sure there are more). </p>
<p>The refusal to admit you to the bar could be based on your academic dishonesty. Or, if your argument is “I was so mentally ill I didn’t know right from wrong” they might fear that you’ll stop taking meds and start doing dishonest things again (I know, ADA might protect you, but remember the admission committee is made up of skilled lawyers whose main goal is to protect the state bar from embarrassment over who they admit and from having to pay out client protection fund fees. They are not on your side). </p>
<p>So it is very very possible for you to spend 3 years and a LOT of money on law school then be unable to practice. It’s not worth the risk. I’m going to be honest with you: look into another career. There are plenty that are intellectually challenging and require similar skill sets (reading, writing, analyzing texts, problem-solving on behalf of clients, etc.) that don’t have the same licensing requirements.</p>
<p>Regarding bar admissions, my understanding is that non-disclosure is one of the biggest sins that you can commit. I know people who have had DUIs, assault and battery charges, drivers license revocations from reckless endangerment, the whole thing, and still been admitted to their state bars. Ultimately, those bar examiners weren’t worried that those people would steal client funds or defraud the court via non-disclosure or inaccurate disclosure. OTOH, the OP’s situation screams “bar admissions problems” - even if disclosed to the bar examiners - simply because many licensing committees are understandably quite skittish about admitting someone to practice who has a record of not disclosing vital information when required to do so by law. </p>
<p>This also raises the question: why does the OP want to be a lawyer, and why does (s)he think (s)he’ll use good judgement as an attorney? </p>
<p>My advice is to get this situation straightened out with your undergrad school first (and grovelling for mercy might be the most effective route), then wait several years to apply to law school. It will be easier to be admitted to law school, and a state bar, if this problem is in the distant past and is followed up by several years of clean living. Moreover (and I’m a lawyer, not a psychiatrist), I think it would be good for the OP to spend some time learning to function with bipolar before attempting law school, the bar, and a job as an attorney. This is not a statement about whether or not people with bipolar ought to be lawyers or law students, just an observation that it’s best to be at some sort of equilibrium in your life before throwing yourself into this profession. As of now, the OP has not even completed a full academic semester post-diagnosis.</p>
<p>“Once someone “graduates”, the ONLY penalty that a college can impose is a rescission of that degree. If you fess up now OP, the college can penalize you while you are still on campus. Perhaps a slap on the wrist; perhaps a one semester suspension (time-out); perhaps worse. But at least the college can decide if you are worth something other than total dismissal. It gives the college options for leniency should they so desire.”</p>
<p>Agreed. You want to resolve this as soon as possible, before investing additional time and money on a degree program that may rescind your credits. The question is how to go about doing that, and that’s where you need professional advice. I would start by reading up thoroughly on the college’s published policies and procedures. If there is any kind of honor board or disciplinary council, look into whether they have any publicly available records. A good attorney will want to see all these materials, too.</p>
<p>It is plausible that someone in a manic state would be compromised enough to mitigate responsibility for a fraudulent (or even criminal) act. Bipolar illness can induce psychosis where the person has a significant break from reality. They can believe that they are God, the President, etc. Short of psychosis, judgment can be seriously impaired, often involving extreme risk-taking behavior. A university might take a well-documented impairment of that kind into account when deciding on a punishment, especially if the person is now in a treatment program and symptoms are controlled with medication.</p>