If you stayed home instead of working, you would earn $0 anyway. We are talking about someone who is with a working partner. If you do not have a partner and cannot make enough money to pay for food and shelter then you do not have any business to have kids.
“Most college graduates cannot make enough money to pay for food and shelter, let alone a nanny.”
College graduates who don’t make enough to pay for food and shelter shouldn’t be having children.
@compmom I’m right there with you.
I also know that if I wanted to work right now I could shift from the free homeschool to college seminars that I give and the free assistance in creating homeschool plans to working as a paid consultant. I am well established within the homeschooling community as a knowledgeable resource. You’d think that the stereotype of mom sitting and watching soap operas is what most young moms today are doing instead of creating their own networks and establishing themselves in different ways.
Moving forward does not have to mean moving backward. It can mean just creating a new path.
For example, I know a young woman who was an AP biology teacher who wanted to stay at home with her kids. She started offering a biology class to homeschoolers (2 hrs 1 day/wk.). She had a teacher friend who just had a baby that asked if she could join her and offer a chem class. They ended up offering a whole host of classes and it became such a booming business that her dh quit his job and managed their cottage type school. And the mom (bio teacher) still only taught her 1 bio class per week.
When you understand the lives of many stay at home moms today, you’d realize they are savvy, know-what-they-want women extremely far removed from any stereotyped dependent or needy image.
@compmom, I would argue that things HAVE changed. There was a time, not too long ago, when a single working-class income could support a family. That is no longer the case in most of the country. (I do know people who live on a single modest salary – out in the middle of nowhere in Nebraska, where you can buy a house for $80K.)
The cost of the basics of life – food, education, health care – have gone through the roof. There are signs they will get even more difficult to come by.
These women doctors you speak of – they’re outliers. They’re the 1-5%.
Read the initial post. My 2 cents based on that. NEVER compromise your plans for some guy. Your future trajectory needs to be independent of him. You choose grad school and in the specific field based on your interests. btw- getting a PhD never guarantees a job, even in STEM fields.
Would you be asking the same question if you were male? I am a woman and was a chemistry major eons ago at a top 5 or so school. I chose medicine over grad school (did my senior honors thesis in a pharmacology lab- perhaps I should have gone that route decades ago). A friend went the grad school route and decades later we once had a conversation about if we should have chosen the other’s path.
Go with what you want now, not some perceived future ability to accommodate a lifestyle. Get your education and your personal life will fall into place. The right guy for you will accept who you are and not want you to make professional sacrifices. Of course you can always change your path- I know numerous men and women who have despite their education.
If you want to be at the top instead of in the lower ranks you will not be intellectually satisfied sacrificing your education. I have seen women who were professors and had a family. The right man wanted an equal as his partner.
Could go on forever.
The women I know who have been able to create a lifestyle that enables lots of daytime presence with their children while still meeting their financial goals (house in a good school district, retirement funds, college funds, decent medical insurance, safety cushion for a bout of unemployment) are those who worked really, really hard in their 20s and early 30s, “made it” in a lucrative profession, and were able to dial it back as a reward for their earlier investment in their career. Some do part-time consulting when the kids are in school. They are also married to high-income men who continue to work very long hours. I think it would be very hard, in my area at least, to attain the trappings of a secure middle class family lifestyle (as listed above) on one income unless the sole earner is in the top 5-7%. A lot depends on how you want to live and where.
The advice I have given my own daughter is to never assume that a man will support you and your children. You must always be ready and able to do it yourself if necessary. That means getting an education and keeping up your skills in some way even if you decide to stay at home with the kids. My parents had a very traditional set-up (breadwinner/homemaker); my mother did many valuable and positive things at home and in the community besides work for pay. But we don’t live in that world anymore.
“those who worked really, really hard in their 20s and early 30s, “made it” in a lucrative profession, and were able to dial it back as a reward for their earlier investment in their career. Some do part-time consulting when the kids are in school. They are also married to high-income men who continue to work very long hours.”
Yes, I have seen this as well, and agree that it’s a kind of payoff from an earlier investment in education/career.
“The advice I have given my own daughter is to never assume that a man will support you and your children. You must always be ready and able to do it yourself if necessary. That means getting an education and keeping up your skills in some way even if you decide to stay at home with the kids.”
Great advice, @NJSue
There are some class and income differences on this thread. After 9 years on CC it is a bit eye-opening.
The diversity is great, so not making a negative comment. I just didn’t realize.
My advice for daughters is to just accept as a female that YOU CAN’T HAVE IT ALL.
Guys can have it all. They are not vilified by others or wracked with guilt for working outside the home. There’s no equivalent to the “B” label for guys who are assertive go-getters. A guy can have a physique like Jabba the Hut (e.g., Gov Chris Christie of NJ) and still land the corner office.
Whether you are a SAHM or work outside the home, **PROTECT YOURSELF ECONOMICALLY. **Partners can split, die, lose their job. Make sure you can support yourself (and your kids) without a partner. Without economic independence, you are trapped.
Boy, in that first paragraph, a LOT of assumptions I seriously question.
Agree with that second part, though.
I was never wracked with guilt for working outside the home. Not saying that some women aren’t, and that some people don’t look down on that choice. But working doesn’t doom a mom to a life of guilt.
NOBODY can “have it all,” certainly not all at once. We both worked f/t. We are both in IT and could have made more income in the private sector when our kids were small. But we chose to stay in our public sector jobs which certainly provided enough to have a decent lifestyle–and which did not routinely demand 60+ hour weeks. My husband didn’t want to to work 60-80 hours any more than I did. He wanted to be part of his kids’ lives. A man who work 80 hours a week and almost never sees his kids awake on a work day doesn’t “have it all” any more than his SAHM wife does.
What is the frequency of being labelled a “bad parent” of a father who works 80 hrs outside the home vs. a mother who works 80 hours outside the home?
I don’t deny that a mother will get criticism from some, maybe many, people for doing that. That wasn’t my point. My point is that the father who does that is missing out on time with his kids. Many men, my husband included, would be absolutely miserable with that kind of situation.
For the career women here, how do your kids view your working outside the home?
My 2 kids have very different opinions on this.
“yes, for a couple of years much of your salary goes to daycare BUT in the meantime you are accruing job experience, professional contacts, seniority, 401K funds and social security. All too many women forget about these extras they lose out on by opting out of the workplace… extras that add up to a significant amount over time.”
This is so important. The economic side of the equation has to include both the present and the future.
I work with too many older, balding, paunchy men in their peak earning years who have traded in the SAH 1st wife for a younger model.
Good luck doing the same if you are a 50 yr old woman with a decade-plus gap in your CV…
I dont think people automatically label a “bad mother,” unless there’s some problem with the kids. I was proud my mother worked. And my grandmother.
More of an issue can be what time together is like, once Mom (and Dad) are home. If there’s bonding, security, shared experiences, it can be fine. The problem would be a parent who came home and ignored them. Or ignored problems in favor of a few more hours at work.
Either way, once you do have kids, you need to be sure you make the right commitment to them. No one formula for that.
I stayed home for 25 years and still did pretty well with job applications. So did others I know. Of course, many others I know are working at Sears or the local drug store.
Anyway, missing here are the rewards of being home with kids. Worth some financial risks? Some do think so. Worth being trapped in a marriage? That was the way women lived for a long time and many still do.
What are you referring to?
Are you referring to both men and women, I hope it’s not a sexist remark.
In terms of economics,I would say 40% of my high school mates have made more or equal to their husbands in their working years or semi-retired. We were born in the early 50’s and I would estimate 98% of our high school class have college degrees. But then I did go to a private girl’s school.
I am one of those…and my husband is a physician.
My son also married a physician with school debts…and he makes much much more than she.
When my D met her H, he was deep in school debts and she had none.
The thought of marrying well or not, never entered my mind.
But you do have to marry the right person. We just celebrated our 40th wedding anniversary.
Advice for my DC and the OP:
Realize that this is not a one time choice. Whatever career path you choose now and whenever you start a family, you will be faced with the choice between the two over and over during your life. It is therefore more important to determine what you value and what will allow you contentment EACH TIME than to make a particular choice.
Marry a partner that has similar values. Notice I did not say “same” but “similar”. No two people will ever value exactly the same things so searching for that is setting yourself up for disappointment. Starting with similar values though at least gives you a base to progress from. My H and I both value family. It took me a while to understand that he expresses that by feeling he needs to be the breadwinner and I express it by needing order in our personal lives. We both have been continuously employed (with a few bumps from the 2008 recession, bad work environments and other things that were not planned) while raising our 2 DC but we both contributed things to our relationship to allow the other to express how we value family.
Hang in there when the marriage, the career, or simply life seems overwhelming. (See the first paragraph.). It is okay to reevaluate choices and make adjustments to what will work NOW for your kids, career, goals, etc. You have not irrevocably messed up if you need to do this periodically. No one really knows how they will handle it all until they do. It is all just part of the adventure called life.
Establish your own traditions. Whether it is buying yourself a suit when you get a raise or Saturday morning pancakes with your kids find something that you do for you. Small rewards make taking one for the team less onerous. I have never pursued advancement at the office without regard for anything else because each time I head down that path I end up unhappy. Being able to be at every concert and game was something I did for me. Recognition at the office can be like a drug for me but one that always leaves me empty at the end. YMMV
Remember “Work life balance is not something you find, it is something you create.” Not sure where I read that but it sums it up really well for me. Also “balance” does not mean “equal time”. It means “enough”.