<p>I'm not certain that I'd ever even find out what a prospective son-in-law's educational debt load is. How would I? Is this something I'm supposed to ask? It feels like none of my business. My oldest d is completely financially independent; my middle d will be, following graduation in May. I see my job as accepting whomever they, as adults, choose to invite into our family. (Not that I'm entirely crazy about d1's current serious boyfriend. But that's my problem, not hers.) Barring abusers, of course.</p>
<p>I think the appropriate time for a parent to weigh in on the issue of what makes a good life partner is years before it becomes an issue. Even then, we're offering our opinions, not issuing decrees. Is the concern that the parents might be asked to help repay the spouse's educational debt? We can always say no (and we certainly would). But I'd be shocked if my kids asked.</p>
<p>"It may no longer be fashionable or P.C. to say it but financing is still "the American way" and there is nothing inherently wrong with it."</p>
<p>There is in a deflationary environment.</p>
<p>Most people don't understand the problems with deflation because they haven't lived through a deflationary depression. We only have a taste of one at the moment and our Central Bank is fighting it like crazy because people feel that there is nothing wrong with debt. What's interesting is that ringing the 0% interest bell brings car buyers to showrooms like Pavlov's dog. There were people in the showroom at my dealership yesterday and they were waiting for salespeople to talk to so that they could purchase cars.</p>
<p>frazzled1 - you might never know, but hopefully your kids would be smart enough to discuss financial issues before they got married. I'm 47, if I ever got married again I would want to see the person's credit score, bank statements, proof they passed an test for AIDS.....</p>
<p>These are things, IMO, that people need to discuss before getting married so there are no surprises regardless of how old they are when they get married.</p>
<p>frazzled1 - No, it's not concern that the parents might be asked to help, at least for us. </p>
<p>Our D2 is interested in journalism or something more in academia, which probably wouldn't allow her to make as much money. Our D1 is probably going to go into finance/business, so her earning power would be greater. We will do everything we can to make sure our D2 (our D1 also) would be debt free when she graduates so she may have the freedom to pursue her dream. To be very blunt, it would bother me if she were to get into a situation where she wouldn't be able to do that. At the same time, she could meet the love of her life and be perfectly happy to give up her dream in order to be with the guy. This thread is more about how we would feel as parents, in no way am I implying I would have the veto power of who my Ds could marry.</p>
<p>I would definitely worry if my children chose future spouses who had 100k plus debt. I would probably first be concerned that they were gold diggers. A much smaller debt, under 50K, would not set off as many alarms. I know that I live in a type of bubble and that there are many people for whom extreme credit/borrowing is a way of life but it is not our way. We don't do this in our family. We have always lived below our means. I have had credit cards for over 25 years and NEVER paid a finance charge. I have a difficult time understanding how someone could put so much on the line like that. I understand medical debt (this is beyond someones control) but 100K plus in school loans is way out of my comfort zone.</p>
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simba- you need to learn how to use quote, I just did over the xmas vacation.
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<p>Not simba, but thanks so much for this. It's been driving me crazy that I can't figure out quotes or underlining. Maybe I'll even manage bold or color now. :)</p>
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A quarter million in loans for medical school is a sound investment.
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<p>In 2009 I would beg to differ. And if you are in med school and will be staring $250,000 of debt in the face by the end of your studies...... and you fall for a fellow student whose debt will also be over $200,000...the debt will be so stifling you will have few true "choices" in life. You will make choices about residency and practice and locations and such simply on the basis of paying off the loans. You will have no freedom at all to choose these things.</p>
<p>"I'm not certain that I'd ever even find out what a prospective son-in-law's educational debt load is. How would I? Is this something I'm supposed to ask? It feels like none of my business."</p>
<p>I'd basically recommend marriage counseling before marriage. They go over checklists of things and help the couple learn about each other in detail. I've seen many couples go through marriage counseling and sometimes they decide to marry and sometimes they don't. There was one particular case of a couple with vastly different cultural backgrounds. The guy grew up in the US while the lady grew up in the Caribbean. She was a virgin and he wasn't. She couldn't get over that even though they were a good fit in the opinion of their friends. They had a long courtship but eventually split up and married others.</p>
<p>You can't really control what your adult children do. But you have 20 years to convince them that you're competent and experienced in a variety of areas: relationships, earning a living, getting an education, navigating life. In going through college, they learn that everything provided for them doesn't all just happen by luck or accident - someone, somewhere put in a lot of effort to get them to the place where they are.</p>
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I'd basically recommend marriage counseling before marriage. They go over checklists of things and help the couple learn about each other in detail.
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I agree that this would be of great value when beginning a marriage. But for the couple, not for me. Whatever they'd talk about would, again, be none of my business unless my d decided she wanted to share it with me. I consider myself close to my own mom - talk to her often about many things. But there are aspects of married life, particularly financial ones, that I'd never share with her (and oh how grateful I am that she's never shared certain aspects of her marriage with me).</p>
<p>As a mom, I worry all the time about many things. It just never occurred to me to worry about this issue. And I still don't know how I'd ever find out about it unless one of my daughters chose to share it with me. Certainly I'd never ask the guy, "And how much do you owe?" If I asked the daughter, it would be a pretty gosh-darned short conversation. Then again, oldest d pays her own bills and manages money better than my husband and I ever did at her age. So she's not exactly looking for our input about her financial life.</p>
<p>"As a mom, I worry all the time about many things. It just never occurred to me to worry about this issue. And I still don't know how I'd ever find out about it unless one of my daughters chose to share it with me."</p>
<p>One way to share it with you is to ask you for money after they get married to clear the spouses loans or other financial obligations.</p>
<p>This thread is so interesting to me...I can't believe that so many parents are going to go from helping child pick a college that fits...to helping child pick their spouse!! When I married my husband 28 years ago, he was getting his master's degree. We had VERY little extra money, but we made it...we now have all the luxuries that a shallow individual would consider success...beautiful home, nice cars, kids in top colleges, BUT...what really matters is that we married the person that we truly loved...things aren't always easy, but we still have that connection that many of my friends wish they had. I have seen couples who had it all when they got engaged and only lasted a few years...I have seen others start out with much less and have a great life together.<br>
When you get involved in directly counseling kids on marriage...you could easily ruin their chances for true happiness. I am trying hard to start to allow them to trust their own instincts. If something is definitely amiss, I would point that out, but to think that everything needs to be in order as if they were 50 years old...how boring!!</p>
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One way to share it with you is to ask you for money after they get married to clear the spouses loans or other financial obligations.
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True - though, as I said above, we can then say no (which we would). And the OP said she did not raise the issue because she considered this a possibility - more that she was concerned about how she, as a parent, would feel if her child married someone with a large amount of educational debt. And I want to make clear that I wouldn't be all that thrilled about it, myself. I just don't know how I'd find out about it, or what I could then say to my child to change the situation in any way.</p>
<p>I've actually been trying out this conversation in my head. "So, how did Justin pay for school?" "How is Justin doing financially?" "Does Justin have more than [insert acceptable amount here] in loans?" Nope. Would not go at all well.</p>
<p>Haven't read the entire thread. My son's gf owes 90K debt from undergrad...they may very well get married. They're 25 and 26 and live together. </p>
<p>It was no picnic getting DS through BS and MS with "just" 40K total debt. He's acutely aware that if they marry, her loan is his too. That's life. I doubt if the conversation came up on their first few dates. I'm much more concerned they are 100% sure they want to spend the rest of their lives together than whether son understands what he's getting into financially. He does.</p>
<p>Luckily they both have good jobs. If that weren't the case perhaps I'd feel differently.</p>
<p>btw, being in the field, I think there's a limit to what docs graduating from med or dental school ought to owe, and that limit is being far exceeded imo (not familiar with law school but I'm sure it's similar). I know a number of people graduating with 250K+, which is insane. One D of a friend, who will graduate from dental school, figured Ok if I'm borrowing so much for tuition I might as well throw in a car and furniture. Drives a new Acura, has beautiful furniture. Just wait...</p>
<p>"though, as I said above, we can then say no (which we would)."</p>
<p>Just the act of making the choice between yes and no can have decades-long ramifications. If you say yes and there are other siblings, then there can be accusations of unfair play. If you say no, then there may be in-law resentment for a long time. This can surface in a big way when the issue of elder-care comes up and the siblings have to come up with a plan to deal with care and costs. Long-simmering resentments can surface at that time.</p>
<p>"what really matters is that we married the person that we truly loved"</p>
<p>Does this work out better statistically?</p>
<p>"you could easily ruin their chances for true happiness"</p>
<p>And you can save them from divorce or a life of unhappiness. The US is a "true love" country. How are we doing on marriage in the aggregate?</p>
<p>garland - even though I wouldn't have the veto power, I definitely wouldn't have a problem voicing my concern. My Ds didn't think my statement was outrageous, I think they agreed with me. Hopefully they will remember when the time comes.</p>
<p>I think my sons are level-headed enough to understand what taking on that level of debt entails, but it's not my call who they marry. If I find out that one of my son's wants to marry someone who has a lot of debt, I'd suggest they take the money from a big wedding, put it toward paying down the debt and then try to bite my tongue. If I find out that the debt was part of a bigger issue of careless spending, I'd point that out, but I wouldn't get heavily involved.</p>
<p>I graduated with no debt; my dh had $2,000-3,000 left when we married. I paid it off for him from my savings because I didn't want that hanging over my head. I'm very fiscally conservative, and so are my boys for now. I would think they would find someone who shares those values.</p>
<p>My Ds will graduate debt free. I would be concerned if they were financially tied to someone with heavy debt (education, child support, consumer/credt debt, etc) but wouldn't forbid the relationship. I have enouraged my girls to have their eyes wide open in all relationships and talk about financial expectations. Although I have been married for 30+ years I still remember the financial struggle of my divorced parents. It would really bother me if my Ds had to take on their partners' debt if they would part ways. I have to admit the thought of them having some type of pre-nup agreement has occured to me because of my parents' situation!</p>
<p>I'm very fiscally conservative, and so are my boys for now. I would think they would find someone who shares those values."</p>
<p>Hubby & I are quite fiscally conservative as well. Most of our lives, our major debt has been our mortgage. We plan to pay that off before we retire. Our kids & most of their friends also both seem quite fiscally conservative, which makes it a lot easier.</p>
<p>S is still talking about graduating from college a semester early & then getting a research or teaching assistantship to go to grad school in science or engineering.</p>
<p>So far, neither child is in any serious relationship and neither child has incurred debt.</p>
<p>How do you do quotes? I can do italics or bolding but haven't figured out quotes.</p>