<p>=D 10 char</p>
<p>wow, there's a lot of Penn-hatin' here</p>
<p>Not at all. Just that there are universities = to Penn that could/should take its place in this acronym</p>
<p>Exactly. I love Penn, but in terms of name recognition Columbia kind of edges it out. It isn't necessarily fair, since a lot of Columbia's popularity stems from its location in NYC, but that is what distinguishes the two since both have arguable comparable grad and undergrad, granted I would definitely choose Penn med over Columbia med.</p>
<p>Duke, lol.</p>
<p>another vote for duke-->PHYSD</p>
<p>Academics would say Berkeley if you go off the USNews PA score:</p>
<ol>
<li>Harvard = 4.9</li>
<li>Princeton = 4.9</li>
<li>MIT = 4.9</li>
<li>Stanford = 4.9</li>
<li>Yale = 4.8</li>
<li>Berkeley = 4.8</li>
</ol>
<p>BYSMPH "bysmth" has a nice ring to it...;)</p>
<p>My vote would go to Columbia and Penn. MIT and Caltech don't count. They're Institutes of Technology, not universities!</p>
<p>If they want to be considered universities, they should plop down the billions that they have in order to establish leading schools in the liberal arts, medicine, law, etc...the day MIT or Caltech can beat Penn or Columbia in being so excellent while being so well-rounded is the day I eat my metaphorical hat.</p>
<p>C for Caltech. </p>
<p>I did a google search, and a search of this very BB and most citations for CHYMPS exist to add Cal Tech to the Fab 5.</p>
<p>Makes sense, Cal Tech by a wide margin has the highest testing students in the country (undergrad). That really should be the end of the story. MOst of the time when a person uses HYP, or HYPS, or HYPSM, they are referring to the best schools in the U.S. It is hard to argue that Cal Tech isn't among the top 6, and how can you have the very smartest students in the world at a school not in the Top 6? Doesn't make any sense... a school is its students, and its faculty. Per the Grad school rankings, Caltech has top 6 faculty. For Grad Schools, it is the #6 ranking in it's three areas of study of Engineering, Math&Physical Science, and Biological Sciences.</p>
<p>I really don't care! I went to Stanford and UCLA. I, and just about everyone I know, was not smart enough to get into Cal Tech. I can't say the same about ANY other school, including the others in CHYMPS.</p>
<p>Columbia is a friggin trade school of broadcasting, isn't it???</p>
<p>If one were to decide to boycott mostly technology universities, then there isn't really any school that in the US News or other rankings is every close to HYPS... so no point in adding another letter.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Columbia is a friggin trade school of broadcasting, isn't it???
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Spoken like a true Californian.</p>
<p>Cal Tech is a fantastic institution, but it really is the epitome of a niche school. You don't go there for a well-rounded educational experience. And while it may be true that it boasts the highest test scores of any school in the country, what does this really mean? Is there really any statistically significant difference in the intelligence of a student body with 1550 as its 75% SAT score and one with 1590 as its 75%? Probably not much. If you're a die hard math/science nerd who is absolutely certain you want do something outside the humanities, CalTech's a great choice. For any other kind of student, I'd say a school such as Columbia is superior.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Let's stick to HYPS as the first tier and MCPCD as the second group, with the "D" referring, of course, to Dartmouth.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I agree strongly with this above poster. My only question though would be, whether Dartmouth is actually considered above Brown. In my opinion and how I feel most people view rankings.
HYPS (best of the best no question hands down--add MIT for tech people also)
Columbia/Cal Tech/ Penn (all great schools, but cal tech is so small and one-dimensional..not to mention its name recognition is not on par with the top group)
Brown/Dartmouth (I feel they are both viewed as equally impressive and a slight notch below the above)</p>
<p>PS: Berkley nationally/internationally is just not considered with this group for undegrad (it is a state school after all) Also if I had to place Duke it would probably be with the second tier (Penn Columbia..) for its great academics and rep. Also after discussing this with a variety of people both in college and outside..I strongly believe that Columbia and Penn are essentially equal institutions, with the same name recognition, academic prowess, and prestige.</p>
<p>^ why does it have to be undergrad ONLY? </p>
<p>Everyone on this board talks about going to top grad schools, etc...Berkeley is the top grad school in terms of depth and breadth of programs offered (according to the NRC)...Berkeley ranks consistently near the top for academic prestige in international surveys (SJTU for example)...</p>
<p>Speaking of undergrad, Berkeley's undergraduate programs rank near the top in majors ranked by USNWR (specifically ugrad business and engineering)...</p>
<p>Best Undergraduate Business Programs
Rank/School Peer assessment score
1. University of Pennsylvania (Wharton) 4.9
2. Massachusetts Inst. of Technology (Sloan) 4.7
3. University of California–Berkeley (Haas) * 4.5</p>
<p>Best Undergraduate Engineering Programs
(At schools whose highest degree is a doctorate)
Rank/School Peer assessment score</p>
<ol>
<li> Massachusetts Inst. of Technology 4.9 </li>
<li> Stanford University (CA) 4.7
2. University of California–Berkeley * 4.7</li>
<li> California Institute of Technology 4.6 </li>
</ol>
[quote]
1. Harvard
2. Stanford
3. Berkeley
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I've presented rankings that show consistently that Berkeley is on par and ranked with HYPSM...no one else has.</p>
<p>C = Caltech</p>
<p>I'd actually go with Berkeley. OOS admission difficulty is practically on par with Harvard and Princeton.</p>
<p>Ha! I have a fellow classmate who was GSP'd by NYU, but accepted to UCLA!</p>
<p>HYPS stand fine just by themselves, to be honest.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>What about in-state admission difficulty? Honestly, I don't think we can group a public university with the Ivies. Berkeley, UCLA, University of Michigan, and UVa all stand out as public institutions of excellence, but they cannot be as selective as the Ivies, nor can the be grouped with the Ivies.</p>
<p>columbia or upenn</p>
<p>^ Any particular reasons? Or....</p>
<p>UPenn because of Wharton and Columbia because NYC needs a representative:P Also Warren Buffet went to both</p>