I don't know how to advise my son -- help!

<p>Sophomore son is in pre-Cal. The math track he's on would put him in BC Cal blocked with DiffE next year (that's how our school does it; not sure whether that's common). Earlier this year, he was struggling a bit in pre-Cal. Not bad, but Bs -- the only ones in HS this far. </p>

<p>After talking to others, he signed up for AB Cal for next year and will take the BC/DiffE block his senior year. The BC Cal teacher is a real tough-love kind of guy. Stories I've heard have turned me off (though every kid he's taught except one for the past five years has made a 5 on the AP exam), so I was kind of happy that my son opted for the slower track. You have to have an 85 avg in pre-Cal to stay on the tougher track, and I wasn't sure he'd make it at the rate he was going last semester. </p>

<p>So, today, he comes home and announces that he has the top grade in the class -- a 97! -- for this six weeks, plus he's had an A all spring semester. Now I'm wondering whether he bailed out of the most rigorous track too early. He said the "conic" concepts were what he was struggling with earlier, but that what they're studying now is "his kind of math." I have no idea what that is. Liberal arts major here.</p>

<p>Any wisdom about the track to take? Are these "conic" concepts a big part of BC Cal? He plans on majoring in the sciences. If he does the harder track, he'll probably do AP Stats his senior year. My hesitation to pursue the hardest track is that with his sked next year as it is now, with the AB Cal, he'll have seven AP courses one semester and six another. I think he has more than enough rigor in his schedule already. If he takes the BC/DiffE block, that would be eight APs in one semester and that seems ridiculous.</p>

<p>Advice?</p>

<p>If he has a 97 in this course, that is almost perfect. In all reality it is normal to have difficulty with at least one concept of calculus. I think you should encourage him to pursue the BC/DiffE series next year instead. At the same time though, for a science major a strong foundation in calculus is priceless, so an extra year at a slower pace is great, but math is one of those topics you have to study and keep up with. I personally took cacl 1,2,3, all in college, and had a hard time with Diff E b/c i did not remember all of calc 2. In high school, it might be easier to dedicate yourself to BC/DiffE and get it over with than to take it in college with all the other college stuff going on. Also, clearly, your son demonstrates enough ability to most likely do very well in BC.</p>

<p>A lot of high schools that offer BC calc have it as a senior class. Going the "slower" track could help build a stronger foundation in calculus.</p>

<p>From what you've said, though, your son seems pretty strong in math. There's nothing wrong with encouraging him to try the BC/diff track. And I don't recall doing anything with conic sections since 10th grade.</p>

<p>I think it depends on the rest of the track. If BC is basically the end of the road in math at his HS, then I would advise pacing it: go with AB as a junior and BC as a senior.</p>

<p>Has he asked his current teacher for an opinion on this?</p>

<p>uudad, interesting you ask this because that's part of the confusion. His pre-Cal teacher came to the school midyear, and, coincidentally or not, when the new teacher came is when his grades improved. But, no, I don't think he's spoken to him. That teacher is staying on past this year, I think, and will be teaching the AB Cal course.</p>

<p>sherpa, there are some higher courses, including independent studies, but I really don't think he needs that much math. Most of the faster-track kids top out at BC Cal and do or don't take Stats.</p>

<p>S1 took Calc AB as a jr. (made a B, 4 on exam), decided against taking BC (very few at our sch. take BC) and took AP Stats as a senior (A, 4 on exam). Took Calc 2 as a freshman in college and was pretty rusty after the long break from Calc. since jr. year. With lots of hard work pulled out a B. He did not regret taking Stats senior yr. though as it is a requirement for his major and he has heard it is a very tough class at his sch., just had to work hard to get back in the Calc. groove after the long lay-off.</p>

<p>An A does not necessarily mean that he has mastered the material -- some teachers give out top grades to students that show effort, etc. Not all math teachers are equal (your comment about the teacher being new made me think).</p>

<p>I know kids who have aced Pre-Calc -- only to find themselves completely unprepared for AB Calc. They just had poor teachers.</p>

<p>I would have him talk to the BC teacher and see what he thinks, but I would be more apt to have him do AB his junior year and BC/DiffE his senior year. The only problem might be that by senior year second semester he might be ready to slack off.</p>

<p>I advise the Calc AB for next year and BC the following year. Your student will get a much better understanding of calculus with this sequence. Calc AB is pretty challenging in its own right.</p>

<p>Thanks, everyone, for your thoughts.</p>

<p>I agree with calgal. Junior year is a big step up in difficulty in a lot of classes; no need to struggle in all of them. Colleges won't care if he took AB, then BC versus BC, then Stats (as long as he isn't majoring in math or engineering.) Getting A's as a junior, however, is very important in college applications, so his original plan is the best.</p>

<p>You know your son best. Does he bore easily or do better if he has to work hard? My son did best when he found the material most challenging--yours may or may not be the same. But colleges won't care, esp. if he makes it through BC during his senior year. (What would he take senior year if he takes BC as a junior? Stats is a waste for a kid who's done well in BC.)</p>

<p>YDS:</p>

<p>It looks like your son is on a block schedule. Take into account that AB is 2/3 of BC. Isomeone who is taking BC right after Pre-calc is covering the same materials as AB plus some new materials. In other words, BC is taught at a faster pace if it is taught in lieu of AB instead of as a continuation. But, if it is taught as a continuation of AB, it is taught with a lot of review and at a slower pace, since the new materials is only 1/3 of the AB materials.
When a student takes the BC exam, s/he will get the AB subscore, the score for the materials that are considered AB. </p>

<p>I hope this helps discussing things with the teachers and making plans.</p>

<p>marite, so would it be OK to do AB and then BC/DiffE, or is it too repetitive? It's allowed, right? The counselor didn't say a thing when we talked to her about this plan. And, yeah, we're on block scheduling.</p>

<p>dmd, Stats is what he'd be looking at. He's really not a math kid and wouldn't be at all interested in MultiV Cal or the other options. Or did you mean what other kinds of courses? I think he's thinking AP Bio, AP Euro History and AP English for sure. Plus, he'll have a research practicuum. Not sure about other electives.</p>

<p>AB junior year and BC senior year is very common at our kids' HS. I think is is a good way to go because it keeps the calculus intensity down a bit by spreading it over two years, and it avoids the college math transition problems that can arise from studying no advanced math senior year.</p>

<p>You don't say---there are a bunch of issues here. First, I think (THIS IS MY OPINION) that the whole "As in junior year" thing is overrated. I know too many kids who've ended up at great schools with Bs and even Cs on their records. They were the ones who had a lot of fun doing other things that weren't formal ECs and weren't formal coursework either. If your son isn't really a math kid, maybe he should just take Calc AB junior year, and no math senior year if he does well on the AP test--and take some other elective that actually DOES interest him.</p>

<p>Or perhaps, if he's the kid who does best when challenged, he should take BC his junior year and quit after that. OR maybe he should take Stats as a junior and AB as a senior, if he wants to take some other harder courses his junior year.</p>

<p>There is an enormous emphasis on taking these college level classes--and Diff Eq is a college level class, as is calculus in most colleges--early. It's not always the best answer. </p>

<p>But that's my OPINION and if you're aiming for the Ivies, you probably want to go with the standard answers of "max out the difficulty."</p>

<p>how hard is it to switch levels once the year has started? if the answer is "not very," maybe he should start in BC and move down as needed. Everything in AB should be taught in BC too, just faster and perhaps in a different order.</p>

<p>YDS:</p>

<p>If your son is not a math kid, I suggest following dmd's advice. Let him go the AB route, don't bother with DiffEq, take courses that truly appeal to him. Nobody will give him grief for not having a fourth year of math if already took AB in junior year.
I am all for taking challenging courses (my S does best when challenged), but also in doing what you love.</p>

<p>You're fortunate he has the option of this dilemma. My D's HS didn't offer a Calc BC course during her senior year so, since she'd already had AP Calc AB and AP stats prior to the senior year, she 'ran out' of math classes to take at her HS. Despite this, she took the Calc BC AP exam anyway and passed it.</p>

<p>Again, it would be interesting to get the current math teacher's opinion on this although if she/he is relatively new to the school they might not have a good feel for it. It might also be beneficial for your S to discuss it with the Calc BC teacher. My Ds have had similar conversations with HS teachers in the past and they're generally helpful and the teachers are generally glad to have a student interested enough to ask the questions. </p>

<p>It seems that, depending on how things are taught, taking a year of AB followed by a year of BC will only make his skills in this area stronger.</p>

<p>It is great for a liberal arts kid to finish up with BC calc senior year. This is what my daughter did and if she did as well as she feels she did on the BC Calc test, she won't have to take any math in college at all. (Even though she loves math, this will make graduating in four years easier because she plans a fair amount of study abroad.) Her college gave her a semesters worth of geometry or trig credit for her SAT II score and she'll get two semesters of calc credit for the BC Calc test, so she'll go in with three semesters of math. Enough for most liberal arts kids - although she mentioned the possibility of a minor in econ, which I think requires one more semester.</p>