<p>I think a top kid at a top high school should be hopeful that they’ll be admitted to a top college, but to assume it is, as this student found out, foolish.</p>
<p>All it takes is one small mistake- a poorly chosen essay topic, a weak recommendation, an interview in which the student comes off as arrogant- to disqualify applicants to the most select schools. There are plenty of great schools a tier or two down that will welcome the same student and serve him or her well.</p>
<p>@sally305 As a current high-schooler, I totally agree. My parents have been extremely helpful in making my expectations more realistic- they always support me 100%, but they are quick to remind me that the more elite schools I apply to, the more rejection letters I’ll be likely to get. It’s also best to look at schools where you’d fit and be happy- many honor students don’t seem to know the difference between wanting to go to a college and wanting to have GONE to a college.</p>
<p>It is a top HS in South Florida 4 Harvard - 2. Wharton 6 -regular UPenn- (no Yale),- 3 Brown - 5-MIT-6 Princeton -4Cornell-2 Dartmouth-4 Columbia.3 Stanford .This without talking about the double and triple Ivy acceptance. One kid got into MIT, Dartmouth and Wharton and he is not the Valedictorian ( not even close) . Then you have the people in Duke, Georgetown, UChicago, Caltech, JHU,etc. the top 50% of that class was exceptionally bright. I do not know if it was the school only (my kid did not apply for an Ivy, it was not for him). Most kids that apply in regular schools got some merit scholarship. It is not easy to be in a class like that. He got accepted into Northeastern and people told him not even to consider going because it was such a low ranking school…</p>
<p>WOW. That is amazing. And why is that? </p>
<p>Watched the movie Admissions yesterday and thought the visit to Deerfield “We love our Deerfield kids” was interesting.</p>
<p>Obviously a movie and a comedy at that but still, I am sure there is plenty of truth there.</p>
<p>Some got a NASA physics award and got flown to NASA in California (that helps in your application), another won the best educational softwear design in the State and had his own TED talk presentation, a third holds the Guinness book record of the youngest certified investment broker in the world, another did a internship at Harvard Medical Center, another an internship in a Chinese bank in Beijing (speaks fluent Mandarin and French) and the list goes on an on. These are brilliant kids.</p>
<p>Traditionally the Cal State Colleges were thought to be “safeties” for college bound California high school kids. Not true this year. More and more Cal States are using complex algorithms to select a pool of “high yield” applicants.</p>
<p>I think is becoming a trend. In Florida the State school are getting more and more selective with the people from their own state. What’s the point of buying a pre- paid tuition college package if your kid needs to get on the top 10% of his class to be accepted.</p>
<p>@Ddahwan</p>
<p>Wow that school sounds so scary…I doubt I could have survived in there longer than a week <em>shudders</em></p>
<p>Graduating - is not just the school. The kids are the one that are getting more and more prepared. The school becomes more and more selective at choosing who will be their students. In 6 years a good part of those students (whose parents are also Ivy Alumini) become involved in a series of activities (some school sponsored some not) that might result in an award or special recognition. Multiply this by 150 students and you will have the result of high acceptance at Ivies and top schools. The school becomes even more known and on top of the good middle students you get the high school transfers. The best kids from others privates schools that want to get a shot at getting into a good school. It works almost like natural selection.</p>
<p>Jamminj~I admire and agree with your approach. Don’t feel pressured to have your child sit for another SAT or ACT. Our DS is a very solid 3.5 gpa and has gotten in to good schools with good scholarships. Not HYPS but so what. Grades are still the strongest indicator of a student’s predicted success in college and college adcoms know that.</p>
<p>As for the original OP and topic at hand, I think one thing folks forget is that an applicant may be fully qualified but not get in-because you just cant fit 10,000 students in to 2,000 seats. So even if all are equally outstanding and over highly qualified, not all will be accepted and trying to guess the nuances that will push one over the top compared to another seems a pathetic reach for a holy grail. Don’t jump on me, all you overachieving CC parents. I respect your right to feel there is a holy grail and to reach for it. I just don’t personally respect the feeling that life won’t go on without reaching it.</p>
<p>State universities perform better than private colleges when it comes to starting salaries of recent graduates in Virginia. </p>
<p>Virginia put out a list of starting salaries for graduates of every college, public or private in the state. The results prove that we should all just relax already. </p>
<p>Here are the stats (I am including links to an article summarizing the study and also the whole PDF for those who want all the details):</p>
<p><a href=“http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2...gher-education[/url]”>http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2...gher-education</a></p>
<p><a href=“Search | American Institutes for Research”>Search | American Institutes for Research;
<p>I helped a valedictorian of an IB school get into three Ivy’s with full scholarship offers the year after she only got into the state flagship school with a half scholarship offer. My point is that is it doesn’t work out the first year, don’t give up. Yes, you may have made errors as she did the first year, but discover them, address them and try again. Taking a gap year is not for everyone and can be risky, but it also can be a marvelous opportunity to make up for inadequate extracurriculars, poor essay and interview performance, seeming lack of direction, lack of individuality, and so on. Just don’t feel sorry for yourself or be bitter and indignant. Most students who apply are rejected from most top schools. You are in good company. if you think you’re truly up to attending a top school, your job is to convince the committee next year that you are.</p>
<p>People put too much importance in going to Ivy league schools or MIT, Cal Tech, Duke etc. Going to an elite school doesn’t make or break a person. Theres plenty of successful people who went to public state schools. Heck, theres plenty of successful people who never went to college at all.</p>
<p>@AlwaysNAdventure</p>
<p>You mean you helped the student gain acceptance into the Ivy’s where the student qualified for “need based” full-ride scholarships based on the student’s family lower income bracket, as the Ivy League schools do NOT provide non-need “scholarships” or what many refer to as merit aid. To get a full ride, the family income had to be to below $60K per year.</p>
<p>[Ivy</a> League ?Scholarships? - Ask The Dean](<a href=“http://www.collegeconfidential.com/dean/archives/000142.htm]Ivy”>http://www.collegeconfidential.com/dean/archives/000142.htm)</p>
<p>I am not sure how to interpret all the angst about Ivy League schools. Talk to honest adults who went to ‘top’ schools. Ask what he pressure was like, the arrogance of the professors and the administration. Publish or perish vs. education. Listen to the pros and cons. May be a fit, may not. Forget the image. You are paying for reality.</p>
<p>Best advice I have heard.
<p>Good luck parents.</p>
<p>I compare the people who don’t get into any of the schools they applied to and didn’t apply to any safeties to the people on unemployment for 99 weeks because they refuse to apply to Wal-Mart or McDonald’s until something better comes along because it’s “beneath them”. I don’t feel sorry for them either. When you get lemons, you make lemonade, as the saying goes. Make the best of what you have, get off your high horse, apply to plenty of safeties and make the most of the education you can get from the best one that accepts you. Your education is what you make of it, good preparation for the way your job (or lack of one) will be in the future too.</p>
<p>A lot of the applicants are complaining that it’s the schools that are the problem. But if that many schools are rejecting them then they need to start looking at the applicant. It’s really suspect when one person starts pointing the finger at “everyone else”.</p>
<p>Someone who didn’t research enough to realize they needed safeties also is going to have a hard time researching papers and projects in one of these “top schools” I would add. This is the start of your own life if you are going to college out of high school and your new life if you are going as an older adult. It’s time to take responsibility for your own future or you will never make it.</p>
<p>Sorry if that sounds harsh but it’s the hard reality.</p>
<p>I think a lot of kids who whine about not getting into their reaches did not have realistic expectations. The night one of my colleges were sending out rejections, a lot of kids were complaining about being stuck with safeties/state schools. Most of them made it sound like they thought they a shoo in for getting into the school. Granted, the school is really hard to get into. I myself got rejected. I think these things are to blame for the unrealistic expectations:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Poor Guidance
Either from parents or guidance counselors. Parents sometimes do not always get involved or know enough to advise their child about applying to the right schools. I know a few kids whose parents were not involved at all, or over involved. My friend’s dad told her to apply to Ivies, she did not get in. She was not dispappointed because she was not expecting to. It was for prestige really. However, the kids whose parents are not involved get a sore wake up call when they get rejected or find out they can’t afford the school.
Guidance counselors can help or not. My own counselor was awful. She barely met with me and often gave me the wrong information. Thankfully, my mother was smart enough to give me a hand. Some counselors can be great and point the student in the right direction. Others can leave a student out in the cold. This could lead a studen tot have unrealistic expectations.</p></li>
<li><p>Not doing the research
A student could simply not do the research. They might only apply due to the fact that the school is high-end or their friends applied. This obviously causes disappointment when the receive a rejection letter from a college that was out of their league.</p></li>
<li><p>Media
Let’s face it, the media pressures kids to go to Ivies. In fact, I think television makes it look too easy to get into an elite college. A lot of shows I watch where there is a sibling or child of college age, they are all applying to Ivies or high- tier. (One character’s behavior was absurd when she got rejected from one school, but got accepted into every other Ivy and high-tier. The girl got into Oxford for crying out loud!). Anyway, the media sets the expectation that any kids can get into an Ivy no problem. Obviously this is not a realistic approach. I often ask myself: What happened to going to a normal college? Does it really need to be an Ivy school?</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Anyway, I think that these factors contribute to the recent complaints that have been on the site lately.</p>
<p>Consider this: You can have perfect SAT/ACT/SAT II scores, a perfect GPA, great essays, amazing EC’s, challenging life circumstances which you have overcome, be well liked and be the darling of all your teachers. And, this can all help you get into lots of the very top schools. However, that doesn’t mean you’re going to be able to handle them without a hitch. The thing you are missing when you go to college is heavy, present, parental support, the carrot of top college admissions, and the absence of partying in your residence. Because you probably avoided much partying in high school and put off many types of enjoyment to get into top schools, you may have a hard time resisting these things in college. Further, you may not have the self-discipline away from your parents and your quiet, clean, well run home to pull off similar performance in college. So, while you want the brand name, the research and learning opportunities, or perhaps simply the community of equally brilliant scholars (finally), you may be in for the challenge of your life. This can be a good thing, but only if you’re willing to face the music and change/grow fast and without giving up. </p>
<p>My point is that getting in can be the lesser of the challenges when you also must stay in and get a good GPA, good research opportunities while still a student, and good recommendations from peers and professors. </p>
<p>As for whether you should retake an SAT if the score is less than 2000, I would say it would be worth it. Get some training to bring it up, and do it. That is one factor in admissions when two similar students are being evaluated. That doesn’t mean you’re not “acceptable.” It means that you’re willing to go for the best you can get, and it’s assumed that your highest score is the best you can get. Now, if you get a 2298, maybe it’s not worth trying to raise it because it may be viewed as about the same as a 2400. But, below 2000 would not be. You would be viewed as a little less capable among a field of highly capable contenders. Because finaid is so amazing at these schools, it may be worth the $$$ and time to raise it. </p>
<p>No, there is no shame in attending a state school. Of course not. But, such a school may or may not best meet your needs. The point is meeting your educational needs to best prepare you to meet your life goals. If your motivation is primarily about brand name and pride, you still might to fine but pick schools that have a lot of other people doing that, not the brutal schools where it’s all about the challenge. </p>
<p>If you didn’t apply to safeties or likelies and only applied to reaches and didn’t get in, relax already. Take a gap year, get heavily involved in a research project with the best researcher you can find who will mentor you, or do something else admirable and unique so that you are a better candidate than most of the students for that next year’s class. Remember that you have limited time to get it going and show results, though. You will need to start applying within six months. So, get moving. For a top student, I’d rather see them do that then to just take whatever they can get into on a shorter term application basis. On the other hand, a top student can shine in a state university if they have the right mentor. They can get the best advice, equipment, scholarships, and access to researchers if they play it right. There may have been reasons you weren’t accepted to the very top schools, and it could be more about personality than anything. So, consider that as a clue as to what could work best for you. Even if you take a gap year, still ask your current admissions to allow you a year’s deferment of acceptance so you can “enhance your project management skills,” “give back to the community” or whatever. Then, apply to more likely schools just in case. </p>
<p>Don’t let school choices be about pride and esteem. Pick the school that will help you best develop, and it’s not always the very top rated universities.</p>
<p>Before starting at what you might consider a lesser school with hopes to transfer up to a most selective school, research their percentage of selected students who are transfers. Do they have a policy against transfers? If so, can you fudge it by not counting/not reporting prior college attendance (without lying)? In other words, can you leave it off your reported record but still show very productive use of time after high school? I don’t know the answer. When we visited MIT for CPs, there was one kid who transferred in from a community college, but that was seen as very rare. Find out and never base decisions on assumptions.</p>
<p>Note: It is appropriate to research these questions online, but know whether your sources are official and dependable or hearsay. Anything on CC is probably in the “hearsay” category, even if “everyone says so.” For important information, confirm with the institution’s website and probably with the admissions department or if appropriate the major department. There tend to be unadvertised exceptions as well. Don’t spend too much time describing your situation before asking the question, but do give a brief context to help the staff member judge how to answer. Also, student workers and some lower level staff may not be able to answer questions well, so be very specific and if necessary check another way. I personally seem to be able to access senior staff in admissions departments, but I am well prepared before I have a question and only ask when it’s important. Also, I try to make calls during their likely less busy times and seasons when possible. You also may be able to ask questions from your local interviewer for that college if you’ve met them already, but keep in mind that they may be out of touch with the current way that the university works beyond things that affect their role and might give you incorrect information.</p>