<p>"Just to make sure my point is clear. It was not about whether she should do EC in general or not. This is the deadline day for a major scholarship. Do you spend a couple hours working on the application or help out GC until 8? (that is after a whole day of school work). You tell me."</p>
<p>Why don't you just cough up the EFC instead of stewing about the scholarships?</p>
<p>
[quote]
</p>
<p>Poor kid. Can you just imagine what she was going through when her dad pulled that plug?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>And can you imagine what else she might be subjected to if we make this person angrier?</p>
<p>If you don't think he's a troll, then at least consider the possibility that our good intentions might end up hurting his daughter in the long run. She is the one that has to deal with his anger, and we might just be fueling it. Does anyone still believe they can reason with this person?</p>
<p>I also feel sorry for Dad II's wife. It's no fun being the one who has to pick up the pieces in situations like this. </p>
<p>sly_vt,
I also hope the D went to talk to the GC (since they obviously have a good relationship...maybe she'd rather hang out with the GC than be at home...). I used to do that a lot in HS. Perhaps something can be done.</p>
<p>And DadII, when my kids are swamped with work and have a pressing deadline, I'll go ask "What can I do to make your life easier?" </p>
<p>Actual answers: Popcorn. Caffeine. Permission to crank up the music in the computer room. Go away. Index cards. Two hot dogs. A blanket. Tea, Earl Grey, hot. Take the laptop upstairs to work (so as not to disturb the rest of us). Nothing. </p>
<p>So yeah, if my kid is working on a deadline, I keep the procrastination lecture to myself (because G-d knows I'm an adrenaline junkie who needs the last-minute rush to get productive) and focus on helping my kids identify what they need. So, when they're off at school and I'm not around, they'll learn what helps them get through stressful times.</p>
<p>Speaking of which -- I have something to get out to a client and I have been trolling here all afternoon.</p>
<p>"And can you imagine what else she might be subjected to if we make this person angrier?"</p>
<p>Whether or not he becomes angrier isn't within our control. He may become angrier whether or not people respond to his posts. My guess is that in real life, people may disagree with him, but probably are too intimidated or frightened to say to him some of the true things that many have posted here. </p>
<p>I agree with the person who suggested that there probably are some lurkers who are reading this thread and are learning that their parents are or were abusive or even that they themselves are abusive.</p>
<p>Perhaps this thread will encourage some people who are abusers or survivors of abuse to get help -- whether or not the OP agrees with how people here have responded to him.</p>
<p>"All I did was to ask DD to spend the minimum time to have a decent application. Rushing at last minutes after 14 hours of work is not the optimal condition to do a "decent" job. I don't understand why you guys keep saying I seek perfection."</p>
<p>Because your daughter has a 34 on her ACT and still, it's not enough.
Because your son was getting a B in AP History and there was "no hope" for him.</p>
<p>Guess what, Dad II? This isn't China. It is really irrelevant that all the people in China think that the only schools that are worth going to are HYPSM. Guess what? They're WRONG. Here, in America, while obviously it's better to go to a good college, all else being equal, true prestige and accomplishment is earned by one's own merits. </p>
<p>Stop being such a snob about Ohio State honors programs. Who cares that all the relatives back in China don't think it's a big deal. Plenty of wonderfully successful people go to Ohio State and do extremely well in life. </p>
<p>For someone who chases prestige so much, you seem to be unaware that fixating on a few top schools is not "prestigious" in the least here in America. It's both laughable and sad. I'll let you in on a little secret -- people typically SNICKER at people who chase the few top colleges and think that life will be over if they don't go there. The true movers and shakers here in America know that smart, talented people can be found anywhere from community college up through Harvard. </p>
<p>Your daughter is highly accomplished and talented. She'll do fine anywhere she goes. Is this about impressing your brother with the Stanford-bound daughter?</p>
<p>Well there is harm if he's a troll. First of all, I'm burning my dinner for DH just trying to catch up with this thread today. Secondly, a troll drains off energy and time of parents who can help other students and parents with genuine concerns. Even a troll-initiated thread can serve as a forum to discuss many issues, so in that way all threads are good regardless of the OP's authenticity.</p>
<p>But I don't think he's a troll.</p>
<p>He did, however, lose me when he pulled that plug. </p>
<p>The way to teach a D a lesson about life is to let her submit the application, written on as much time as she gave it and then BOTH of you see if she gets the scholarship or not. That takes you, Dad, out of the middle. If she didn't get it, she'd see it was her own choices of how she distributed her time that day of the deadline. And if she got it, you might discover perhaps your assessment of the award system isn't as tough as you think it is; that her 30 minute final work on it (or whaterver it was..could have been an edit from an earlier draft) was GOOD ENOUGH to win the prize. Now neither of you will never know on this particular scholarship, but sadly, she can blame you and not herself/her work habits to reflect upon later.</p>
<p>I recall being late for appointments, always last minute. I never got the message until I was working in Texas (after my graduate degree!), went solo towards a beautiful island to catch the ferry boat to see Whooping Cranes, then an endangered species. I timed it last minute, and as I got to the dock,
I saw the boat pull away. It was the only weekend in my life I could ever have this experience, and I knew I did myself in. Had to go back to the office the next day, and had only a short number of weeks in Texas. So I never, ever saw those Whooping Cranes. But I never was late again for such things.
If instead my Dad had been there at the driveway to say, "No, you are leaving TOO LATE and your bad habit will cause you to miss the ferry boat..." I'd be thinking they made me miss the boat. Instead, I had to come to terms with the meaningful lesson MYSELF. I did it to myself. I learned because it was a solo lesson, you see, with nobody to blame but me. </p>
<p>That's how I self-corrected a very poor work habit at the age of late-20;s.
I disappointed myself, not others. I felt regret, not anger. I changed.</p>
<p>I hope you can take yourself out of the middle of so many of these junctures with your daughter this year. She can continue to work upon her work habits. I was 28 when this event with the Whooping Cranes happened. Well, I got that far...had a masters degree, was working in a Research and Development Consulting firm on an interesting project regarding fuel oil offshore drilling in Texas. I got that far, but still had much to learn. </p>
<p>You are right to want her to improve her work habits, but she will. She just needs to do it without you in her face so much.</p>
<p>I do get that you want her to improve her habits, but give her another decade. You are asking way too much of her at this age, I feel. Life is a process, a journey, as was yours. You didn't knoow all you know today at age 18 and neither can she. Give it time.</p>
<p>She'll lose some opportunities and surprise herself with other opportunities meanwhile. I respect that you are working your socks off here, and have saved some money. Be proud and try not to ruin things now. She'll get some opportunities in Spring, we all believe, and won't get others. Your micromanagement is a problem now, as is your anger.</p>
<p>BUt here's something else to chew on: there were parents wrirting in last August tearfully, "They are going, they are packing and I still feel I have so much more to teach them..." I didn't teach them enough (fill in the blanks): cooking, social skills, time management skills, ironing...whatever. Their life will continue forward and they will improve on their time management skills while in college. (MY S certainly did; he was also last-minute boy, but less so today; too many "logical consequences" as a freshman.) When they don't return the housing form fast, they get the worst housing and they realize it; it doesn't happen again. When they register late, they get the worst choice of courses...and it doesn't happen again. I think they have to face these things ALONE.</p>
<p>Dinner is burning now..must away.</p>
<p>Too many entries to read them all but here's my opinion:</p>
<p>DadII Stop the pressure on your daughter. Every student should apply to match schools, safteys, and reach schools. You encouraged your daughter only on the reaches. (Final reach as it appears she has the academics) How often do you read the boards, find out the students that are gaining acceptances to the top schools, and hopefully with some aid? Near perfect scores are becoming more common place. Those fairs you find a waste of time, volunteering, leadership positions are the tipping points. She may know quite well what she's doing, except for YOUR financial situations. </p>
<p>Parents...be up front with your children from the start. "We have x dollars for your school". Let them know what's there, what's not so they can look into schools with all options known.</p>
<p>My prayers for Daughter of DadII. I can't imagine the pressure of living with such scrutiny.</p>
<p>"You will pay $24k for a State U over $28k for Harvard?"</p>
<p>Yes, if that is what my child really wanted. I certainly don't have a problem saving $16k, BTW.</p>
<p>"If your child, after working a full day, knowingly left 1 hour to complete a major application near the deadline. You will not get upset and you will give him/her a hot coco to encourage them to do it again?"</p>
<p>Well, I wouldn't be making the kid hot coco. However, I HAVE seen my D send off admissions and scholarship applications AT the deadline (11:59pm). Since going off on her own to college this year, she has learned to procrastinate less. In fact, she waited a little too long in one class to go to her prof for help & she realized how much easier it would have been had she gone far sooner. THAT lesson will stick with her, because it caused needless anxiety for HER. May I ask what pulling the plug did for your D ... other than to ruin any chance you might have of paying LESS than $24k for in state?</p>
<p>If only I could look the other way ...</p>
<p>I think it would behoove the OP to be more circumspect in his postings.</p>
<p>"You will pay $24k for a State U over $28k for Harvard?"</p>
<p>Sure. It's not my life. It's YOUR ego that's so into Harvard, etc.</p>
<p>"Well there is harm if he's a troll. First of all, I'm burning my dinner for DH just trying to catch up with this thread today. Secondly, a troll drains off energy and time of parents who can help other students and parents with genuine concerns."</p>
<p>No energy and time is drained if people would walk away from this post.</p>
<p>Hope you salvaged dinner. I can't tell you how many times I've burnt my morning oatmeal getting caught up on my e-mail!</p>
<p>
<p>I unplugged the power switch in the middle of anger. So, she did not meet the deadline nor was anything submitted.
Then you are the person who prevented your d. from submitting the essay and it is your problem, and yours alone. </p>
<p>Probably the scholarship that would have been your daughter's will go to some kid who spent 45 minutes on an essay and hit the submit button --ha, ha. </p>
<p>Back when I was practicing law if it was 3:00 pm and I needed to submit papers to the court by 5:00 pm to meet a deadline, I got it done. It didn't matter if I had been in court all morning on different matters or sick or whatever -- I could meet my deadlines when I had do. I didn't even think about it -- it was simply part of my skills as a lawyer that I could whip out a reasonably good emergency petition or writ application in a hurry when I needed to. </p>
<p>Any college student will have all sorts of times when they need to get work done under pressure and in a hurry. I am confident that my kids can both start writing papers at 10 pm that are due the following day and do a decent job of it -- heck, in high school my son didn't start his Senior Exhibition paper until midnight the night before it was due. At 10pm he was still thinking of the topic. And it was really good - I still remember his presentation.</p>
<p>So my kids are in college earning A's turning in really good but not perfect papers; they know how to work under pressure & how to meet deadlines. </p>
<p>If my kid had started an application at 11:30 pm that was due at midnight, I would have simply have gotten out of his way and then cheered wildly when he hit the submit button at midnight. You were messing with your daughter at 8? That's time enough for 3 applications! (I am serious -- I can't imagine any kid who has already written multiple applications and essays needing more than 45 minutes to do another one, given that it should just be a matter of tweaking and adjusting something that was already submitted for another purpose.) Kids these days are lucky to have computers -- when I was in college starting my papers the day before they were due, I had to do it all on a typewriter and use carbon paper for my copies. That was much more time-consuming than cut & paste. </p>
<p>If your DD doesn't get scholarship money it is because you have taught her the wrong lesson -- while you are causing her to stress out and actively standing in the way of her submitting paperwork, there are other kids who are submitting dozens of applications with very little stress or fuss ... and they are the ones who are going to get the money. Guess what? my son has gotten more money than his full COA this year, because of a couple of last-minute applications he made, close to the deadline, last spring.</p>
<p>
<p>Whether or not he becomes angrier isn't within our control. He may become angrier whether or not people respond to his posts. My guess is that in real life, people may disagree with him, but probably are too intimidated or frightened to say to him some of the true things that many have posted here.
</p>
<p>I'm sorry Northstarmom, but for once I don't agree with you.</p>
<p>No one can control another person's emotions, but I do believe that sometimes what we say and do can influence the way people react. And I think we should be aware of that whether its in person, or in cyberspace.</p>
<p>I don't think any of the advice or suggestions made on this thread are helping Dad II. At least his responses don't show it. He has made several comments that demonstrate he is controlling and at the least, mentally abusive.</p>
<p>I think the chance that we might be hurting his daughter by fueling his anger is a possibility, and one that is worth considering. </p>
<p>As far as helping others who are abusers or survivors of abusers, I think its a great idea that might be better served on a new and separate thread.</p>
<p>STA800 - you are wise :) for a young person ;)</p>
<p>Dad2, once again, I'd like to validate your feelings.</p>
<p>I'm much better organized than my kids, and my spouse is much better organized than I. We have all had a lot of issues over this over the years and so I can speak with some authority that it is annoying when one of the kids does something late, or sloppily, or too late, or whatever, especially when it ends up inconveniencing the rest of the family. That's annoying. It is more than annoying when they do something out of laziness or procrastination or just a foul up that costs someone a lot of time or money.</p>
<p>It can be very hard to live with people who either don't share your innate sense of order and process, meet deadlines early, etc. However, in the grand scheme of things (and surely you have observed this at work) people bring different skills to the table. </p>
<p>I have colleagues who are much more creative than I- they see patterns differently, they solve problems better- but their desks are a disaster and they regularly miss deadlines. I have a boss who is an organizational nightmare-- LDD and ADHD, causes chaos every time he needs to be project manager on something, even small things- but is the most intuitive, brilliant people person I have ever worked with. He can get people to do things nobody else can, because he always takes the time to listen, to care, to figure out what really motivates someone before he assigns them more work- and so people feel very valued and special when they are asked to work with him (even though he will lose every single document you send him.)</p>
<p>The world is just like that- in most professions, people have different capabilities and in a good and productive environment, you can respect the good things and try not to get irritated about the bad. In a family the dynamic is different since the parents (or the Dad) are "in charge" and so the rest of the family ends up being punished or feeling belittled or whatever when they don't do things the parents way.</p>
<p>In my house it has helped me greatly to try and see my kids as colleagues sometimes... especially when I want to shoot them over something stupid or careless or lazy or not done 100%. I say to myself, "if this were at work, I'd be afraid to have a tantrum because people would think I'm a lunatic and I'd lose my job. If I were at work, instead of saying, "you are the laziest and most ungrateful person I've ever known" I'd say something like, "We've missed an important deadline. Would you like my help in figuring out if there's a way to solve this problem? Can I get us to a solution"</p>
<p>It has improved my relationships with my kids; I lash out less, and I think they feel less intimidated that I'm constantly in my control freak mode. In turn it has helped me... there are many times that they've screwed up and a simple phone call has solved the problem. One of the kids "forgot" to express mail a letter and I found it two days later. It had a late payment on a credit card for me and I was furious- interest charge, penalty, you name it. Kid called credit company, took responsibility, company accepted an online transfer from the bank and waived all fees and penaltys and suggested that we set up online billpay from now on-- and I got a $100 bonus for setting up online payment!</p>
<p>I would never have thought to do that.... I believe in mailing things on time, but my kid (who I guess has a lot of experience sweet talking his way out of penalties) took responsiblity and solved the problem and there was no name calling.</p>
<p>Highly recommended. I bet your D could call the scholarship committee at Ohio State and explore submitting a late application. Why get angry unless you've explored the other options?????</p>
<p>I think this thread is great - it has illuminated a wide variety of ideas and reactions. Most people can learn from the postings on the thread. I am sure many or most of us have made up our mind if he is a troll or not. Does it really matter - he has stimulated good discussion and exposed readers to a wide varity of emotions and thoughts. Kind of makes you think about your own relationship with your own kids. So one way or the other DadII has accomplished quite a bit.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>I unplugged the power switch in the middle of anger. So, she did not meet the deadline nor was anything submitted.>></p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>With any kind of luck, the daughter called the college, and explained that she had a computer failure...and asked if she could submit her essay. My guess is they would say yes. AND I have to hope she is either writing it in the GC's office (and submitting it...at least he/she won't pull the plug) or is at a trusted friend or mentor's home.</p>
<p>I swore I wasn't going to post on this thread again, but the postings are very odd. Things like "give me a break" sound more like a teenage ranting than a parent who cares about their child.</p>
<p>Hmmm.. if I were the DD in question, what would I think about Dad pulling the plug? Well, I'd think he just was afraid to find himself being wrong again... He was fuming about the Math SAT and predicting failure, but all the time spent at the theater did not prevent DD form getting the perfect 800. What if she writes a perfect essay after the 14-hour school day and gets the scholarship? What, Dad will be wrong? Again?</p>
<p>You see, it would not be the "it's bad to procrastinate" lesson; it would be the "Dad is angry because he's afraid I'll be right again" lesson... or maybe "Dad thinks it's OK to be cruel with those who depend on you" lesson.</p>
<p>I, as a parent, would not want to teach my kids any of these.</p>
<p>I've been teaching my 6 year old some elementary fencing on our rooftop deck (yes, I as a lowly Ohio State grad actually owns a Lincoln Park apartment with a deeded rooftop deck). Anyway, S was not concentrating enough and put down his foil to pay attention to the dog. What should I have done? If I was DadII, I would have stabbed him through the kneecap (impossible I know with a fencing foil), and S would have learned his lesson to not lose focus. Sure, he never would have been able to competitively fence in his life, but I would have made my point and maintained my control--at all costs!</p>
<p>State College... Big scholarship....Summer internships/campus job...maybe RA ...financial independence...freedom right around the corner</p>