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they are very conscious of the dangers of pushing kids too hard. Many of them have suffered that themselves under the harshness of the cultural revolution. They are torn with wanting to see their kids succeed but not wanting to encroach upon their kids' childhoods
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Amen, mammall. I've been written and re-written of my 2nd responding to this thread. Only you said much better than I could.</p>
<p>I have known parents like this--they haven't been Asian American parents. Sadly, we have few Asian American families here. But the consistency of this poster over time would be hard to maintain as a falsehood. Could be done, but why would anyone make the effort on a free confidential forum? </p>
<p>PS: By "here" as in we have few Asian American families here, I mean in VT, not on CC.</p>
<p>I believe the OP - I think his voice is consistent.</p>
<p>Or we're all laboratory rats in somebody's Psych 101 project.</p>
<p>bethie, sadly, I know some parents like that, too. Not all of them are Asian (we have a lot of Asian American families here in WA). DadII story is indeed very consistent and sounds very real, unless his last name is Sim :)</p>
<p>Just a thought; I am aware of some first generation immigrants from Asia who, upon moving to the states, make a promise to family back home that they will help support them when they 'make it big' over here. So they get their degrees (maybe moving here and attending school with the financial support of other family members who are able to), then once they get their jobs, must live up to their promise to 'send a little' back home each month. Perhaps this is, or isn't the case with DadII, but if it is, the Asian culture very much values respect of one's elders. Not respecting ones elders is considered very, very shameful. Now this may not be our culture, but we have to understand that this is where he might be coming from.</p>
<p>While he's admitted to setting aside a certain amount of money for daughter's education, he also realizes that he has a rising son, too, and maybe he's now concerned that what he has put aside isn't enough. On top of other expenses (maybe he's still paying off student loans for himself), which may or may not include sending money back home, he may just be freaking out about seeing those dollar signs in reality. </p>
<p>Does it excuse the waffling back and forth and mixed messages being sent to his daughter? Not really, but we need to take into consideration that there may be more to this story than he's been telling us. Like I said, it's not uncommon at all for immigrant families to support family members who remain behind in their native countries. Many people have been quick to judge his finances, but we don't know what other obligations and responsibilities he has. </p>
<p>Perhaps he makes progress with suggestions offered to him, then has a phone call with a brother or other family member that sets him back again. While I moved over 1,000 miles away from my family, it often never took more than one phone call from a family member to make me feel like I was 14 again, and question everything I valued. Shame is a vicious toxin.</p>
<p>Could be, teri,</p>
<p>I have been supportive of this poster since day one, though sometimes trying to give him a little shake. Sometime he says he is, or is going to, spend down his assets wildly so his D will get better financial aid. I care, but I'm getting tired. Maybe time for a new generation of posters on this.</p>
<p>Muffy -- there's a thought! Maybe some day we'll get a post titled "Fooled ya! Wanna read my paper?"</p>
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Quote:
they are very conscious of the dangers of pushing kids too hard. Many of them have suffered that themselves under the harshness of the cultural revolution. They are torn with wanting to see their kids succeed but not wanting to encroach upon their kids' childhoods </p>
<p>Amen, mammall. I've been written and re-written of my 2nd responding to this thread. Only you said much better than I could.
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<p>Amen? While it "sounds" good, it also goes against the countless accounts anyone can find on College Confidential. The difference is that what is seemingly acceptable to parents is quite different from the perspectives of the younger generation. I think that parents who think to be on the same page as their children about the process of college applications might be surprised about how the children see it. </p>
<p>The story about asian families valuing --in all the senses of the world-- education to the extreme are sometimes hilarious, but all too real. And, for this extreme behavior there are no excuses. Not cultural, not financial, and none other! </p>
<p>The worst blind is the one who refuses to see.</p>
<p>Well, for what it's worth, I have benefited from reading this thread, whether DadII has or not, and I appreciate all the time and thought that was put into the posts. My S's grades and scores are respectable, though not on the level of DadII's D. S is smart but is a bit of a slacker on his schoolwork and just does enough to get by (getting by meaning about 3.6 UW). He also spends too much time playing video games and watching sci-fi tv shows.</p>
<p>This month I am beating him over the head to get all his scholarship stuff done just like I have been beating him over the head since fall to get the college apps done....oh, and beating him over the head to get his schoolwork done on time and well. Yeah...lots of beating....lots of arguing.</p>
<p>This weekend we were at a large statewide event in which he participates and is a state officer. I was there as a parent volunteer. Over and over again, other adults kept coming up to me telling me what a great kid he is and how impressed they are with him. I saw him running around and organizing people, problem solving, using good judgment, being flexible and helpful to the adult staff members....I could go on and on. He even emcee'd the banquet with 1,000 students in attendance.</p>
<p>So, after reading this thread I'm thinking...maybe he's going to be just fine and I should be doing less beating and more enjoying during his last year at home. I mean, yes, the scholarship apps have to get in if he hopes to attend anywhere other than a state U, and I will remind him (forgetful is his middle name); but maybe I can do it without all the beating.</p>
<p>xiggi, you were wong about all of them, the asian parents. I said amen to mammall's post, because she said something I can truely related to, especially regarding the 'cultural revolution' part. </p>
<p>Not that I don't understand DadII's frustration with his D if he is real. I just think he lost the perspective/sight in the process. One of many reasons we chose to settle down in state, is we value the better and diversity of education especially the high education here (HS upper, I do have some reserved view of lower level education standard. that's another topic). The last thing we want to see is our kid is strangled/stressed in an education system, where every one dose and only dose things for college admission. There were some parents wanted to make up what the oportunity they lost in 'cultural revolution.' start preping their kids since kindgarden.(another story as well) as crazy as it sounds.....Not all asia parents are the same, but I do admit some how asian parents do get sterotyped even by their kids. However there are so many Asian family and kids out there, not all of these kids chose to post here at CC. Mine never did, if he did, he might give you a totally different perspective how his parents 'pushed' him.</p>
<p>Some chinese parents here may not agree with me, but frankly I think the college application process here in states is way more demanding and stressful than in china, though not as 'objective' as china. It really adds a lot of pressure to family and kid because there are a lot of CHOICES, the 'fit'/'match' considerations for kids, then amily finantial status consideration. Meanwhile the kid has to load up his senior courses and keep up with school works and grades.....In china because most colleges (all of their top ranked ones) are government owned and run, as long as you are qualified for their official cut off line and admitted, its FREE for you. Some of these colleges may focus more on science and engineering, others may for huminities, some may for both, but campus cultural wise they are all so similar. So only thing left for you to chose is the 'ranking' its done by filling out ONE and only ONE application form where you listed you first choices, 2nd choices, 3rd choices. And start from senior year, they don't teach any new materials, preparing exclusively for the nation wide college admission exam......I guess DadII must lost his perspective, no matter how high expectation you put on to your D, at this point the last thing you want to do is to push your D over the edge. And what you have kid for? Why you work so hard? What is you D to you, do you love her?</p>
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The story about asian families valuing --in all the senses of the world-- education to the extreme are sometimes hilarious, but all too real. And, for this extreme behavior there are no excuses. Not cultural, not financial, and none other!
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It was a looooooooooooooooong history, 2000 years of Confucious's influence "every thing is low class, only scholar make you high class" (sorry for the terrible translation). It's not hilarious, in its own soceity it has its long history value combine with other cultural tradition values. Historically, the higher the education the higher social society status you got. So traditionally they see education is the only way to success......I'm not making any excuse for DadII. Though I can understand his frustration. But we do thing quite differently at our household as far as kid's education approach goes. This is another reason we like it here the 'diversity definition' on 'success'.....And you havn't seen half of asia american family how they raise their kids. Most of them not post here. Who is the blind one here?</p>
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she helped GC at school to do other kids stuffs until 8PM.
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Why is she doing the GC's work? What is the matter with the GC that she expects this?</p>
<p>I'm a bit late to the party . . .</p>
<p>Just a bit of helpful reality for OP.</p>
<p>Ohio State is an excellent university. Yes, it's Tier II but look at that list . . . lots of solid schools that produce graduates that go to the best graduate programs and get outstanding jobs every year. IF your daughter ends up at Ohio State she will no doubt do very well (as she has in high school) and go on to do whatever it is she wants to do. AND, as some other posters have pointed out, she might get opportunities at Ohio State by virtue of being in the Honors College and being a top student (rather than an average fish in a very deep pond at a HYPS-type school) that might lead to even better grad schools/jobs than if she attends HPYS. </p>
<p>And, of course, she may end up somewhere other than Ohio State when all is said and done. Your D has worked hard, achieved much, and now you just have to stay calm while you wait for the FA packages to arrive.</p>
<p>But what I really want to talk about is the value of ECs. I know many parents, including OP, think ECs are a waste of time. Not so. In addition to the intrinsic value of being involved, helping others, etc. (and I think there is great intrinsic value) there is a pragmatic value as well.</p>
<p>I work at a public university and among the things I do is work on our highest merit scholarship (full ride). When reviewing students for this scholarship, we look at SATs/ACTs and grades and there is a cut-off. (By the way, a 34 ACT is outstanding and I find it hard to believe it won't put her into contention for a scholarship at Ohio State AND lots of other Top-Tier Privates that give merit aid as well.)</p>
<p>BUT, after we amass our list based on stats we throw out the numbers and start to READ applications. We're looking for students who have been involved in valuable ECs, research, sports, etc. We're looking for students who will make a difference on our campus (not just earn high grades). We then invite the students on our "short list" to interview and if they are just grade drones and can't talk about interesting things (which very often come out of their ECs) they will not be selected to receive the scholarship.</p>
<p>Each year we pass over a number of students with 1600s (old scale; we're not yet considering the writing score) in favor of those on our low end (minimum 1350) because those 1600s did nothing but study. Good for them but that's not what we're looking for. And I'm pretty sure that's not what Ohio State (or elite private schools) are looking for either.</p>
<p>Give your daughter a big kiss, tell her you're proud of her, and hold your breath until all the acceptances and financial aid packages come in. You might be surprised where she ends up.</p>
<p>The biggest problem that I have with DadII (and I am first generation American in a culture that values education above all else), is not just that he wants his D to do what he wants her to do, but that he wants her to do it in the manner in which he wants her to do it. He ranted for days about his D working on a theatrical production rather than studying for the Math II SAT - she got 800 nonetheless. I would be willing to bet that she'll get some of the scholarships she's applying for, even if she dashed off the essay in 2 hours (or 20 minutes) instead of 6 days.</p>
<p>The child has proven herself capable and responsible, if left to do things her own way. I say leave her alone.</p>
<p>From timely: "D. S is smart but is a bit of a slacker on his schoolwork and just does enough to get by (getting by meaning about 3.6 UW). He also spends too much time playing video games and watching sci-fi tv shows."</p>
<p>Timely, a 3.6 UW is an excellent gpa that would gain your S admission to the vast majority of colleges in the U.S., including many of the top 20 ones.</p>
<p>Doing "just enough to get by" would be IMO a 2.0 average. </p>
<p>For instance, I know boys with SAT v scores ranging from 760-800 who got Fs, Cs and Ds in AP English because they didn't bother to study or hand in homework. Some of these boys are guys whom I very personally know (if you get my drift). </p>
<p>Count your lucky stars.</p>
<p>
<p>BUT, after we amass our list based on stats we throw out the numbers and start to READ applications. We're looking for students who have been involved in valuable ECs, research, sports, etc. We're looking for students who will make a difference on our campus (not just earn high grades). We then invite the students on our "short list" to interview and if they are just grade drones and can't talk about interesting things (which very often come out of their ECs) they will not be selected to receive the scholarship.</p>
<p>Each year we pass over a number of students with 1600s (old scale; we're not yet considering the writing score) in favor of those on our low end (minimum 1350) because those 1600s did nothing but study. Good for them but that's not what we're looking for. And I'm pretty sure that's not what Ohio State (or elite private schools) are looking for either.
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<p>:):):):):):):):):):):):):):)</p>
<p>or </p>
<p>But why? That is stupid. Best student gets the best money , right? Not the stupid play and stupid public service. Top student = Top acceptances = Top money and if you say anything different you are a liar or stupid.</p>
<p>curm, which 16 year old CC'er are you channeling this morning??</p>
<p>inthebiz's comments make sense to me. The colleges offering merit aid want smart students who'll not only up their stats and maintain high grades throughout college, but also enrich their campuses by being leaders and otherwise active participants in campus and community activities.</p>
<p>The student with perfect scores and no ECs would help boost the college's scores for the various college guides -- for one year, and afterward, the student's contribution to the campus would be negligible.</p>
<p>The student with lower (but still high stats) and very strong ECs would provide the one-year boost for the college guides, and also provide four-year leadership in campus/community activities. This student potentially would provide even more long term support and attention for the campus because smart people with excellent leadership skills tend to do better in most fields than do people who are very smart, but lack leadership, personality, etc.</p>
<p>This is true in applying for things like medical, law and business schools, as well as corporate jobs and, of course, being politicians.</p>
<p>I'm so glad that inthebiz posted because that underscores what I've believed for a long time: That ECs count a great deal when it comes to consideration for things like merit aid. ECs (with the exception of sports that colleges are recruiting players for), however, aren't that important for admission at any but the majority of the most competitive colleges in the country. Those colleges, however, have an overabundance of high stat students, so can afford to select from that elite pool, students whose ECs will add to the college's creating an active, well rounded class.</p>
<p>AnotherNJMom - thanks for the post - that is the story that many miss, on both sides of this.</p>
<p>I can only speak for Rutgers (which I will let the rest of you characterize). Their website is very clear--merit money is based strictly on the numbers. Based on the chart, DadII's daughter would get $10,000--essentially full in-state tuition.</p>
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<p>That's just stupid. </p>
<p>;)</p>