<p>Denise, viewing FB, as you state is not spying on the kids. Viewing the phone bill that the parent pays for which shows right by the charges how many minutes and how many texts were used is not truly spying either. On FB, you actually see who your kid is “chatting” with on their wall. On the phone bill, all ya see is total number of texts and minutes and not “who.” That’s why I don’t get why you think that it is violating privacy to check the charges on one’s bill they are paying. Likewise, if I give my kid permission to use the credit card to buy certain items (must have permission first), I do check the credit card to make sure there are no other charges and I am aware of its use by my kids who have a copy in case of emergency and for items we gave permission to use the card for. Is that spying?</p>
<p>denise515 - as well as I think I know my kids or even my husband, there are times when I do wonder. I have asked for advice on this forum for help when I was in doubt and have received valuable advice from many people here. Just because we ask for help sometimes it doesn’t mean we do not know our kids. I think OP knows her daughter very well, and she is trying to make sure she is doing the right thing. I wouldn’t be surprised if OP is reluctant to ask her “real friends” or family members for advice because she is trying to protect her daughter’s privacy.</p>
<p>oldfort, I agree that viewing a kid’s stuff on FB is more intrusive than viewing the phone bill’s total number of minutes/texts per phone on the family plan.</p>
<p>Depends on the kid and parent. If you post infrequently and are not overly involved in their page then it’s not. If you see something pop up on your news feed or posted directly to your page then it’s not. But if you are data mining or scouting on their page then it definitely is.</p>
<p>If a parent loses faith in and the feel of who a child is within one month then I wonder if they really had an idea who their child was in the first place. Especially a month filled with transitions, change, new experiences, and insecurity for that child. It’s easy to ‘know’ and have faith in our kids when they are pleasing us and they aren’t rocking the boat. Not so easy when they are not.</p>
<p>Most of us would be shocked if our spouse were to ever cheat on us, because until it happened it is something very hard for us to believe. No different than for OP to find out her daughter would lie to her. I am sure she never thought her daughter would lie to her over and over again. I don’t think OP has lost faith in her daughter, but it doesn’t mean OP wouldn’t want to steer her daughter in the right direction when she has temprorary lost her way. Isn’t that what I do as a parent from time to time?</p>
<p>Based on watching my kids text, it probably takes an average of 10 seconds or less to write a message, and 3 seconds to read one. They are not writing War and Peace. So cumulatively it might be a couple hours a day, which is a lot, but it means the OP’s daughter could certainly be paying attention in class, getting all her work done, and still have time for a lot of texting. It doesn’t mean every second of the day is spent glued to the phone.</p>
<p>Why is she lying? She knows her parents will not approve, and something in the family dynamic is preventing her from trying to negotiate a solution that satisfies everyone. It could be she lacks the confidence (or doesn’t know how) to deal with her parents at an adult level, it could be she is insecure and/or immature, it could be she has been taught in the past that the parents are never willing to compromise, and discussion is useless. Who knows? We don’t have enough information.</p>
<p>I think rather than issuing ultimatums and punishing, there needs to be a frank discussion about what the parents’ expectations are, why the daughter wants/needs to come home so much, why it is important for her to get engaged with campus life, time management issues around so much texting, importance of keeping grades up, etc.</p>
<p>IMO, as long as her grades are good (which I think is the most important part about college after all) she should have some freedom with her life, and OP needs to be less controlling. If driving while tired is a legitimate concern (I question this to some extent, and it’s not a long drive anyway), work out a system where she gets enough sleep. If reliability of the car is a serious issue (I question this as well, if the car is that unsafe she never should have been allowed to drive it at all - this and the “tired” issue seem to me like rationalizations to impose what the OP wants) get her AAA and discuss contingency plans. She may already feel stressed about the quantity of texting going on, but doesn’t have the relationship skills to get it to a more manageable level; parents can give advice in this area.</p>
<p>The minor BF is a minor (hah!) issue if he is truly underage, because I think there is a double standard in the enforcement of these laws, and it would be rare indeed for a woman to get charged unless it is really egregious. Other way around, I would be more concerned.</p>
<p>Good luck OP, I hope your family can work out a solution acceptable to everyone.</p>
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<p>Sorry, but how is college NOT a gift? No one is entitled to a college education, even less so when the parents are footing the bill. Kids should have to show that they deserve the opportunity to attend college, instead of thinking it is a god-given right. Perhaps an adjustment in attitude will put a lot of these other things in perspective.</p>
<p>Yes, parents will go to the ends of the earth to make their kids happy, but the kids need to remember that this is done more out of love than obligation, and should have the good sense to appreciate the GIFTS their parents give them instead of testing how far they can push the envelope. </p>
<p>(I’m a sophomore in college, so this is just a kid’s honest opinion.)</p>
<p>ls4218, your dau’s report of the A paper is really good news. Have fun celebrating that college performance with her! It’s certainly a gift in terms of conversation starter…what a great springboard for engaging her in a constructive back-and-forth about her college life and her strategies for achieving/maintaining her best performance in all her courses through the semester. It should help keep things on a positive, college-focused level and provide a natural segue for you to talk with her about your concerns/setting supportive behavioral goals, as well as your desire to re-connect more open lines of communication and re-build trust. </p>
<p>You know, we can all get carried away here on CC talking about how we’d handle a situation and what parenting technique–or hands off technique–we’d employ. Fact is, no one is in your shoes. You clearly have your heart in the right place and a good head. I’m sure however you and your husband decide to handle things with your daughter this weekend, you will use just the right approach and reach whatever compromises and agreements seem appropriate under the circumstances. </p>
<p>Best wishes.</p>
<p>Shruggingsheep
There were a few threads this summer that discussed the right/privilege/responsibility aspect of educating our kids. They are here: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/946376-college-right-privilege-assuming-you-have-money-pay.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/946376-college-right-privilege-assuming-you-have-money-pay.html</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/964455-how-did-you-decide-who-pays-college-what-extent-2.html?[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/964455-how-did-you-decide-who-pays-college-what-extent-2.html?</a></p>
<p>I am guessing that soozievt is saying here what we said in those threads. Some of us consider education a priority and a responsibility to provide to our children. Call me crazy but I would prioritize paying for a good education over, say, a good vacation. As a parent I do see it as my responsibility, and yes, a gift I can offer to my children. We have made that “gift” a priority and have saved accordingly.</p>
<p>I have little reason to think my husband would cheat but I would not be ‘shocked’ if he did. Neither would most of the women I know about their husbands. They have the awareness and maturity to believe that anything can and does happen in a relationship between two people. They also have the intuition to recognize red flags. I do know women who lack such ability and they would be shocked.</p>
<p>Not only do the lack the ability they are intellectually dishonest and choose denial over facing painful truths. This happened to my sister, my BFF’s sister, and a woman I work with. All of whom had reason to suspect their husbands were cheating but refused to believe it until it was literally in their faces. In two of those cases they absolutely refused to entertain the thought. It was too scary and dealing with it took too much effort. Those around them would hear the stories and think ‘how in the world can this woman not see what is happening?’ The answer, she CHOSE not to.</p>
<p>I do not believe that people who are in tune with the people around them are ‘shocked’ by anything that person does. Surprised, maybe. But shocked? No. Unless a person has been leading a double life or has carefully crafted a life of lies and deceit in which case you really did not know the person in the first place. You are then shocked that they were not the person you believed or projected them to be.</p>
<p>I have little reason to think my husband would cheat but I would not be ‘shocked’ if he did. Neither would most of the women I know about their husbands. They have the awareness and maturity to believe that anything can and does happen in a relationship between two people. They also have the intuition to recognize red flags. I do know women who lack such ability and they would be shocked.</p>
<p>Not only do the lack the ability they are intellectually dishonest and choose denial over facing painful truths. This happened to my sister, my BFF’s sister, and a woman I work with. All of whom had reason to suspect their husbands were cheating but refused to believe it until it was literally in their faces. In two of those cases they absolutely refused to entertain the thought. It was too scary and dealing with it took too much effort.</p>
<p>I do not believe that people who are in tune with the people around them are ‘shocked’ by anything that person does. Surprised, maybe. But shocked? No. Unless a person has been leading a double life or has carefully crafted a life of lies and deceit (sociopath) in which case you really did not know this person in the first place.</p>
<p>I think any person who considers facebook to be a private medium may be in for a very rude shock. Although the sponsors of FB and similar systems allow the user to select certain privacy settings it is vitally important that our students (and us non-internet generation parents) realize the privacy veil is very transparent.</p>
<p>Obviously if your child has friended you they know you have access to the info.</p>
<p>D’s HS principal had a meeting for freshman parents within the first month of school. At that time she addressed this specific issue. She provided example after example of supposedly private or even deleted posts which had gotten into the wrong hands. One particular example pertained to an individual applying for a DOD position which required security clearance. During the interview process, the applicants on-line history was presented and reviewed!</p>
<p>As for cell phone records. I am able to pull a detailed report on each of our 4 family lines. This includes a line by line listing of incoming and outgoing text and phone #'s. So again, anyone that thinks this info is private is operating under false assumptions.</p>
<p>My kids each have a credit card which runs in mom and dad’s name. I audit our monthly statement line by line. If I don’t recognize a charge as either H’s or mine I’ll ask the kids to verify it is theirs. This is just simple common sense in this day and age of identity theft and fraud.</p>
<p>Several years ago I ran into an issue with health insurance privacy. I was told by a Doc’s office I could not make and appointment for D since it is an invasion of her privacy. In the same breath, the office asked me for her insurance info. I mentioned that she is insured under me. Any an all charges billed to this account would need to be verified. If D makes her appointment, I would NEVER think to ask for any information regarding the medical aspects of the visit (which by law is private), however, they would need to verify that it was actually D that was treated. If they were unwilling to provide the necessary documentation that I was being billed for the correct patient - well - then the bill would be put into dispute.</p>
<p>The point being - most of our illusions of privacy in this digital age are just that - an illusion. I’d argue that for our kids, dealing with this reality is part of the maturing process. I’d also argue that mom and dad’ invading their privacy’ may be the least of their problems</p>
<p>Some office staff are unnecessarily rigid when it comes to HIPAA requirements. That said, it is like FERPA. We can’t get our kids academic info from the college, but we sure can get the bill!</p>
<p>*BTW, did anyone notice that the US News college issue (printed edition) has like 190 or so schools in their “top tier” and then it jumps to tier 3. When did that happen?</p>
<p>Oops off topic- sorry*</p>
<p>this year USNEWS moved all the top 200 National U’s to Tier I. Last year, the Tier I cutoff was around 130ish.</p>
<p>back to topic… :)</p>
<p>*I’m trying to stay calm about all the other stuff going on and not bring anything up until her father & I sit her down to discuss everything this weekend.
All I know for sure she is the car is staying home & I’ll be driving her back to school on Sunday. I will also be limiting her text allotment. *</p>
<p>So, she now won’t have a car on campus?<br>
*</p>
<p>I am also leaning more & more towards speaking with the BF’s parents as well.
My guess is they don’t know as much as I do about whats going on.*</p>
<p>I really doubt they know what’s been going on. </p>
<p>BTW…she does go to a commuter school.
She says she is only 2 out of 9 girls in her suite style dorm that has a car.
Most girls live even closer to school then she does.</p>
<p>Is the problem that the school has few weekend activities? If so, then maybe she needs to transfer to a school that has weekend activities. </p>
<p>I’m not in favor of taking out Plus Loans for a commuter school. What’s the point???</p>
<p>Also regarding the Parent Loan…We did get half of the 1st disbursement ck refunded to us and are holding on to that money for now.</p>
<p>Is that money to pay for second semester?</p>
<p>What happened to the days when the top tier was no more than the top 100 or so? When it becomes 200 (and this is just the major universities, not the LACs or masters level schools) it seems to lose meaning, IMO.</p>
<p>I’d say my heavy user sends/receives about 300 texts a day. That phone is never out of her sight and it seems like she is always texting. I can’t even imagine what 650/day looks like. I’d have to concur with others who suggest it is most likely getting in the way of integrating into college life and college academics. Do what you can to set some limits. Eighteen might automatically make one a legal adult, but it sounds like she could still benefit from a little tough love right now in the form of having access to her toys limited.</p>
<p>OP, I think that Blossom’s post back a few pages and someone else’s words about not driving a person into a corner are VERY well taken. </p>
<p>I really, really, really would not go to the BF’s parents. Think how utterly humiliated your D will feel when she finds out–and she inevitably will! </p>
<p>OT Re stalking one’s kid…I only know roughly how many texts S sends because our provider recently inquired whether we wanted to increase our monthly total because we had gone over by quite a bit…because <em>I</em> was suddenly texting a lot because of a month-long family emergency situation in which I had to keep a bunch of people informed of what was going on. Before that, H & I were sending virtually no texts. When we got our phone plan we were pinching every penny til it screamed. Just having one was a strain, much less coughing up another $10-20 per month for unlimited texting. Apparently we are irredeemably weird. And guess what: we don’t have cable either! The horror!! :)</p>
<p>You know someone is texting too much when you have unlimited texts and you get billed for all of the non verizon to verizon texts. </p>
<p>There is nothing wrong with taking a look at your bill. There are many things that a parent can pick up on when reading a bill such as the general mood of your kid if all of a sudden you see no communication on their cell phone bill. Why are there so many parents who feel that once their kids turn 18 they are adults and we are supposed to completly step out of their lives? This attitude gets very frustrating. I can see that some people had horrible relationships with their own parents but it seems as soon as a parent asks for help there is someone quick to jump in and say mind your business. Sorry but I still don’t buy into the mind your business attitude.</p>
<p>When a parent is paying the bill, it IS their business! :)</p>