I feel like such a failure

Applying to College
81

<p>It's ironic that if the criteria is "making it in America," they're not even LISTENING to what the true definition of "making it in America" is -- which is certainly achievable from one of many, many fine colleges in this country.</p>

<p>Can someone tell me this cultural resistance to (nicely and respectfully of course) setting them all straight? YK, if they all said, "NYC is the capital of NY State," you wouldn't just say yes, you'd (nicely) correct them. Heck, if they all said, "Capital cities provide the most opportunities, so Albany has got to be a better place to live in than NYC if you want to make it big," you'd (nicely) correct them too. </p>

<p>There are disadvantaged students on here who come from cultures where it's "cool" to not perform well in school, to be disrespectful to teachers, to just not give a darn about higher education. We (as a whole) don't respect those cultures. The culture being described here appears to be quite hurtful to many people, and I'm not sure why I should respect it as well. Which does not mean that I shouldn't respect the hard work, the loyalty, the passion and striving for excellence -- but the part of the culture that says you're a failure if you're not Ivy? Why should I respect that?</p>

82

<p>Well put, Pizzagirl.</p>

83

<p>Pizzagirl - I can answer you in one sentence. Nobody is asking you to respect the culture, just understand it. Empathy is entirely different from respect. You can empathize with the women who are executed for being raped, can't you? But I doubt you respect that culture. Two entirely different things.</p>

84

<p>I think I'm worried that the ppl who got into ivy leagues will have a major leg up when it comes to medical school admissions and future salary...</p>

85

<p>Many other schools have great med school admission rates, better than some Ivies I might add, and don't fret about the paper chase. I know it's been ingrained in you, but success isn't just defined/limited to prestigious college attendance and how much you make. Time for another latte!</p>

86

<p>Ivies, a leg up over Johns Hopkins when it comes to med school admissions? Coming from Johns Hopkins, you might actually have a leg up on <em>them</em>...!</p>

87

<p>yeah, but Johns Hopkins is very competitive/rigorous for pre-med and it might be harder to get a high gpa, unlike the ivies, which have grade inflation.</p>

88

<p>Yeah, I'm going into pre-med too, and the thing I'm doing to keep my goals in mind is this: When you get out of Hopkins with a top GPA and score, every Ivy League med school in the country will be recruiting you.</p>

89

<p>^ Not true actually, if you want to get into JHU med school. I hear they're reluctant to admit their own UG students. But overall, JHU is a great school, even if when I went their for a summer multiple people get food poisoning from their cafeteria. But it's supposedly much better now</p>

90

<p>"The opinions of these parents from other cultures aren't based in the reality of the situation in the US. Their opinion is based on several incorrect beliefs:
1) The Ivies are the only route to success in the US, all other schools are also-rans;
2) A kid who is Ivy-League capable will be admitted into the Ivy League for a reward for his / her hard work;
3) If a kid doesn't get into an Ivy League, he / she was not Ivy-League capable."</p>

<p>Pizzagirl, </p>

<p>why do you assume that what you have listed is what parents from other cultures believe? My parents are immigrants as well and they are very much open to the fact that people from non-ivy colleges can succeed in life and turn out better than people who did go to ivy schools. Being immigrants doesn't mean you don't have access to the internet or the library. In fact, being immigrants, especially highly competitive immigrants from azn countries, means that you work your butt off researching all the colleges and the different academic programs. </p>

<p>That said, just because my parents have done their research and are well aware of all the amazing opportunities at schools that are not top ranked doesn't mean that they do not hope and pray that I be admitted into Harvard or Yale. Nor did it prevent my dad from saying something along the lines of "if you do not get into top 10 schools, I will not pay for your college fees." </p>

<p>What I'm trying to make you understand is that the OP as well as his parents' disappointment did not stem from faulty opinions on the "reality of the situation in the US," but rather a more ingrained cultural mindset that you have no right to degrade.</p>

91

<p>becuase the EXCUSE for wanting "just the ivies" and being seen as a failure is what justifies in many this drive for the ivy-only education</p>

<p>as for degrade, that ingrained culture degrades students and schools other than the ivies if they feel attending them is less worthy then an ivy</p>

<p>its not degrading to want to point out that other educations in the US are to be valued, not dismissed </p>

<p>and IF you have access to the internet, then you should be able to see beyond the few 'top" schools if you want to and respect those other schools</p>

<p>just because it is "ingrained" don't made it right and it should be pointed out that it is a very narrow mindset and not to be celebrated just because its some cultural mindset- that is just silly</p>

92

<p>there are also cultural mindsets that women shouldn't even go to school- we can't say, gee, something wrong there just becuase its "cultural"?</p>

<p>seems the
"cultural mindset" degrades hundreds of american schools, the students that go there and their own relatives that get in there....hmmmm</p>

93

<p>citygirl, I know where you're coming from. But just because you don't like an aspect of a culture doesn't mean you shouldn't try to understand it, and extend your beliefs onto it. This is one of the reasons America and Americans in general are looked on poorly around the world. I'm on your side in this, I don't think the ivy-frenzy among many asian-americans is healthy or productive. But by the same token, you shouldn't dismiss it just because you don't agree.</p>

94

<p>I understand it, sheesh. It's not that hard to understand. I still don't and won't respect it. </p>

<p>I find it more than a little ironic, however, how I'm being told I should try to understand this other culture and not extend my beliefs onto it ... but no one seems to be suggesting that Asian parents should try to understand American culture and not extend THEIR beliefs onto it (when the topic is how to succeed in America).</p>

95

<p>the grouping of a few colleges into the term "ivy" is pretty random. No, the "ivies" are NOT the top 8 colleges in the country. True, they are all about in the top 20, but they are not the top schools. Wanting to go to a school just cuz it's Ivy is stupid because the Ivy league is a sports league anyways.</p>

96

<p>"Nor did it prevent my dad from saying something along the lines of "if you do not get into top 10 schools, I will not pay for your college fees."
What I'm trying to make you understand is that the OP as well as his parents' disappointment did not stem from faulty opinions on the "reality of the situation in the US," but rather a more ingrained cultural mindset that you have no right to degrade."</p>

<p>Oh, when I hear of a cultural mindset that says it's acceptable to say such a spiteful and cruel thing to a hardworking, good, smart student -- to tell him you won't fund his education TO PUNISH him -- I feel just fine degrading it. I can easily sleep at night.</p>

97

<p>Let me throw my hat in the ring here.</p>

<p>People from different cultural upbring will have different believes. One should not say the other person's believe is wrong just because his/her is different. </p>

<p>While OP's hurt feeling is shared by many who came from the same background, it may not be fully understood by people with a different back ground. Is his believe wrong, I would say "not", is the way he/she wrote it wrong, I would say "yes". </p>

<p>While OP is looking for comfort from those of us understanding the pain, OP should also be aware of other people's feelings. Many people who are very pround of the college they attend and OP may inadvertantly dismiss their achievements. </p>

<p>let's share our success and our hurt on this forum together. But please consider other's feeling at the same time. We can't ask everyone to think the same way but we should respect each other as an individual.</p>

98

<p>"Oh, when I hear of a cultural mindset that says it's acceptable to say such a spiteful and cruel thing to a hardworking, good, smart student -- to tell him you won't fund his education TO PUNISH him -- I feel just fine degrading it. I can easily sleep at night."</p>

<p>Let's not start on how we can degrade American culture or any culture for that matter. No one's asking you to respect the culture, but certainly don't blatantly disrespect it. If you really have no nice words for the OP, I don't think there's any use coming on this thread and posting.</p>

99

<p>citygirlsmom
I was simply pointing out a point of view from a different culture. I am not "celebrating" the mindset, I am simply trying to help you understand.<br>
I believe you're the one being "narrow minded" since you clearly cannot see past your own point of view. </p>

<p>Pizzagirl
Just thought you should know that many azns also feel negatively toward's America's culture of lack emphasis on hard work. Not that I'm trying to degrade you, no I would never do that, I'm just trying to show you some of the biases that can occur when viewing another culture. You should really try opening up your mind a little.</p>

100

<p>As an Asian with a similar family background to the OP, I can clearly see what's happening here. Moving from a society where competition is high and "face" is really important to a society where competition is still very high, but "face" is not very important can be a bit difficult to adjust to.</p>

<p>It's usually expected in a family where everyone is high-achieving for all the children to do the same, and that's been the long-standing tradition in Asia for a very, very long. Tradition doesn't seem to matter in America, and that's why you can shrug it off if your child goes to a community college if you were educated at Harvard. But it's much harder for an Asian family to accept that. I mean, my parents were pretty ****ed when I got C's and B's back in the day.</p>

<p>Yes, Asian families are very educationally focused. What the problem is that they are rarely provided with the same information that you have. Most immigrant families come into the country with little to no money, and they have to work very hard for the majority of their lives. They are fed information, from marketing (a.k.a propaganda), both in their homeland and in their new country, that the Ivy League is THE place to be, the pinnacle of academia. Sure, by the time their child is in his or her mid-teens, they would have spoken to many American families and probably garnered the idea that the Ivy League isn't so spectacular after all. But a lot of poor families see the top of the education system as a way out of the mess that they're in (poor families, after all, do have it tougher than most). So they want their child to aim for the Ivies, to soar out of the difficulties that they've had to endure for the majority of their lives. And if their child doesn't achieve that, they feel disappointed, as if the child will also have it hard. That's probably why the OP is feeling so down, apart from the "face" issue.</p>

<p>The majority of the posters here are middle-class to the wealthy - it doesn't matter if your child gets into an Ivy or not (though it would very nice) since you have the financial means to support your child for a while yet. That's rarely the case for many immigrant families.</p>

<p>Of course, it could be that the OP's family is pretty wealthy and none of what I've just said applies...</p>

<p>What I want to say directly to the OP is to chill out - don't fret over the supposedly "failing" of not getting into an Ivy League university: I'm sure many people on this board could dig up stats and research articles about how the Ivy League in fact doesn't have much of an advantage when it comes to pre-med and higher salaries. Sure, it may be somewhat easier to get a higher salary from an Ivy League uni, but that's usually if you're heading to Wall Street. I didn't get into any of the Ivy League unis that I applied to - but then again, while it's a great thing to say "I got into Harvard" or what have you, it's equally satisfying to say "I didn't get into Harvard, but look where I am today".</p>

<p>As for your pre-med: as some people have already said, JHU is very well-respected for pre-med, and don't worry if you don't get into Harvard Medical School. There are plenty of well-respected medical schools in the country. A higher salary can be assisted by going to an Ivy League medical school, but really it all comes down to your talents, drive, and self-belief. You had the high school academic credentials to get accepted to Georgetown, JHU, Tufts, BC etc. Clearly you have the potential to make it big time.</p>