I feel like such a failure

Applying to College
61

<p>Uh... international students might be happy to get into any American university, but first generation immigrants definitely have it tougher, IMO. </p>

<p>I don't see it as unworthy rather, it's more that going to HYPS is more of a "something to be proud of" as would be any family. It's not like you're going to be ostracized for going to another college, it's just that for Asians, going to HYPS you've made your family proud, per se. It's a big culture difference, the pride thing is very important to Asian families. Yes, it may not be compatible to American lifestyle, but telling people what to think and how to behave is a bit out of line, isn't it? </p>

<p>Most Asians know that going to a state school or not becoming a doctor, yes, you can succeed with all of that, but it's a matter of pride. Maybe the OP's reaction was a bit exaggerated, being that this was probably right after finding out, but it really is just that much of a big deal at times. </p>

<p>I dunno, I'm a bit tired and this argument sucks real hard, but all I can say is that I can relate very well to the OP.</p>

62

<p>"He may have also been referring to "they need to learn more about their adopted homeland." That made it seem like you thought immigrant parents were completely ignorant about American life and culture."</p>

<p>If they truly believe that the only path to success in the US is through attending an Ivy, and that all these other fine choices are just second-tier why-bothers, then they DO need to learn about American life and culture.</p>

<p>The fact that they all think the Ivies are the only ticket to success in America is irrelevant. They're factually wrong. They aren't. For the life of me, I don't know why you all keep placating these people by hanging your collective heads in shame and saying that indeed I've shamed the family by not getting into an Ivy when the fact of the matter is Ivy attendance is NOT necessary for success in America as they seem to think.</p>

63

<p>You are a failure...</p>

64

<p>"not even Brown"
hahahaha! Classic. :)</p>

65

<p>I myself never had to go through such pressure for a name-brand school, but I can imagine how tough it is. For people who joke about it or get offended (I don't go to an ivy either), I think you fail to empathize. A lot of immigrant kids by and large are far more mature than American-born ones (I was born here, so try not to rip me), understand the immense sacrifices their parents made for them, and put it on their own shoulders to not just succeed, aka getting into a top school. They want to be the cream of the cream in order to validate their parents efforts.</p>

<p>Also, the typical American attitude of blame anyone but yourself is rarely the case for a lot of immigrant families. A failure is a personal failure. A loss is a personal mistake. Heck, I have pretty much the same attitude so I beat myself up over everything. </p>

<p>Why? Because they weren't raised to be part of the 70th percentile. They weren't raised to accept the 90th percentile. They were raised to be that top-most percentile and would do anything to reach that. I'm sure that intense motivation is foreign to a lot of you, and it should be. Relative luxury breeds complacence. This, more than anything, is why many feel crushed at rejections from the ivies.</p>

<p>I'm not saying this approach is great. I'm not even saying this approach is good. But it is what it is, and it's better that you try to understand it than criticize. Most are actually good, caring people. It's just they are very driven, both internally and externally, and put a lot of pressure on themselves to succeed. It doesn't matter much of the time that the prestige is irrelevant. What matters is that they failed.</p>

66

<p>To be honest, I'm a little disappointed with the lack of understanding that's been expressed in this thread. </p>

<p>Danger lies in ignorance, and ignorantly imposing your will on someone else. What happened to the capacity for human empathy and sympathy?</p>

<p>We've all experienced it. If you were a child, having your heart set on a toy to make your day or your life. If you were a lover who had been utterly betrayed. If you were ill and told there was no cure, or worse, to have no access to a cure. You're desperate. You grasp at anything that makes sense to you. </p>

<p>Whatever experience the OP is speaking from, and as far as your perceptions of Asians, people can just as easily reject their heritage as disassemble their bodies. It's intrinistically a part of you. Don't you have a part of your identity you can't escape from?</p>

<p>One historical example: you try living through the Chinese cultural revolution. Educators being beaten on, every authority figure you ever knew or admired made helpless by a revolution. The loss of history and culture, the absolute lack of control you had over your life - the uncertainty, the despair.</p>

<p>You leave everything you've ever known to make sure your children never have to face anything like that again. You crave certainty, stability, predictability. You run at a dream - the dream involves education because education leads to greater opportunities. Clearly your children deserve nothing but the best. </p>

<p>It's not the Ivy hype - or the so-called Ivy hype is the simple paternal instinct to want the best for your child. It's a cultural barrier, and not one that merits immigrants being forced to "understand" American culture and logic. The sense of entitlement to a world where everyone follows your path of thought within your system is unwarranted when your American ideal is supposed to be a meritocracy, where people with their own skills, talents, and work make their way through a just and equal society. </p>

<p>I apologize for the format of the post as far as speculation, but I was hoping some images might evoke a better understanding.</p>

67

<p>
[quote]
"not even Brown"
hahahaha! Classic.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>although this sounds ridiculous, this actually happens lol. My parents were really, i mean really ticked off when i told them i got rejected from brown. They were like "how the heck did u not get into brown? it's not harvard or yale and it should be easier to get into!" </p>

<p>But, yea, OP we feel for you and we all hope that you recover fast and reestablish your self ego and confidence.</p>

68

<p>You know what... this thread DOES show very little understanding.</p>

<p>People are different. People look for different things in life. People from different places care about different things.</p>

<p>This thread isn't used for debating about 'how he's so stuck up just because he didn't get into...'. If you're not here to comfort him and give him understanding, then why are you here? </p>

<p>For many of you, you have NO IDEA what we go through. No, it's not like our parents beat us if we get a B. It's a mental thing. If you don't feel it, then we're not supposed to feel it either?? Why don't we be more tolerant, hm?? Isn't that what we learn in America?? Tolerate different opinions!? American dream right? People have different dreams. What's good enough for you might not be good enough for others. </p>

<p>And don't give me that "immigration mentality" crap. That sounds really racist. Yeah, people gotta work hard to succeed here... but that doesn't mean EDUCATION isn't on the list. Does "working hard" only mean working hard physically? To build the tracks!? I get ****ed off when people try to judge immigrants. What right have you to judge us??</p>

<p>He didnt get his top choices of college... why can't you just offer him some nice words and encourage him to work harder?? Why do you have to bash the people who think differently from you!?</p>

69

<p>I am Asian and I just about come from Asia central (my hs is over 50% asian), so no I do not consider myself white-washed. I know a friend who has parents like yours. They think that since s/he didnt get into x prestigious ivy leagues, s/he is a complete failure. HOWEVER, s/he knows that 1. a decision is not a referendum on your capabilities 2. the colleges she did get accepted to, although not as internationally renowned as ivy leagues, are still very good and 3. her parents are wrong. </p>

<p>So please, learn to think for yourself. All of the colleges who accepted you, or any college for that matter, would be so disappointed with your unquestioning conformity to unfounded stereotypes and expectations. Being Asian is not even close to an acceptable excuse.</p>

<p>EDIT: And for all the people who are trying to turn this into a immigrant vs nonimmigrant race issue, I have something to say. The OP needs to come to his own conclusions. Please don't be so arrogant as to turn this incredibly trivial issue into your own pet cause. Many of the responses included very bigoted statements that do nothing except to perpetuate racial biases.</p>

70

<p>@alice.du and aeshchina</p>

<p>Imagine if a guy posts a thread, and his complaint goes something like this:</p>

<p>"Oh my god I am not successful! I only make $800,000 a year as a VP at Yahoo, and I feel horrible because all of my friends make at least 1.5 million as CEOs! I am so poor and I feel like a failure and I have brought shame on my family, who expected nothing less than a 7 figure salary!"</p>

<p>Now imagine how you'd feel if you read this thread and you made, say 60k a year as a teacher. What would you think of this guy? He is obviously incredibly fortunate, but fails to see it. I am sure you would have no problems calling this guy stuck up.</p>

<p>So what happens when we apply the same analogy to colleges? How do you think all of the kids who would give their right arm to go to Georgetown or Johns Hopkins feel. If this guy is calling himself a failure for "only" getting into Hopkins, what does that imply about the people who couldn't make it?</p>

<p>We're all annoyed because this person is incredibly fortunate, and rather than feeling good about something most of us would die for, he dismisses it and calls himself a failure for it. You wouldn't care if the guy in my example came from a long line of incredibly successful CEOs, you'd still criticize his narrow minded attitude. I doubt you'd say "people have different dreams" to defend him.</p>

71

<p>look, I might have been exaggerating when I called myself a failure, but it is disappointing. Why wouldn't it be, if you grew up in a family that has always talked about the ivies regularly since birth, whose relatives all got into ivies, and where a lot of people believed I would. I will be thrilled to attend either Johns Hopkins, Georgetown, or Tufts next year, but just dissapointed that I couldn't get into the schools I've dreamed about all my life.</p>

<p>BTW, the Brown statement is not my own belief. That are my parents'.</p>

72

<p>Let me guess the OP is Asian, right?</p>

73

<p>"I might have been exaggerating when I called myself a failure, but it is disappointing. Why wouldn't it be, if you grew up in a family that has always talked about the ivies regularly since birth, whose relatives all got into ivies, and where a lot of people believed I would."</p>

<p>Lots of kids are very disappointed right now because they didn't get into the schools of their choice (whether Ivy or not). But the difference is, they don't have this entitlement mentality that certain cultures seem to have, where they ASSUME that hard work = Ivy acceptance. There are kids on here who have accomplishments a mile long and didn't get into any Ivies or other top choices BECAUSE THERE IS RANDOMNESS IN THE PROCESS and NO ONE IS GUARANTEED ADMISSION TO AN IVY and IVIES TURN DOWN HIGHLY QUALIFIED PEOPLE ALL THE TIME BECAUSE THERE SIMPLY IS NO SPACE.</p>

<p>Harvard's acceptance rate is what, 8%? And they say that 90% of the people who applied were qualified? </p>

<p>I don't know, if your families can't get the fact that there are tons and tons of highly qualified students who are turned down from Ivies because there simply isn't enough room, then they aren't thinking clearly.</p>

74

<p>"can't you just offer him some nice words and encourage him to work harder?? "</p>

<p>Because even if he had worked harder, the overwhelming odds are that he still wouldn't have gotten into the colleges that rejected him. Unlike colleges in Asia and Europe, which select students based on test scores, top U.S. colleges select students based on test scores plus factors (many of which are beyond the student's control and have nothing to do with hard work) that create a diverse (in all meanings of the word including politics, religion, ethnicity, majors, ECs, socioeconomic status, region of the country/world), vibrant campus.</p>

<p>It's understandable that his parents may not be able to understand this because the system is so different from what they are used to. However, the OP should be able to understand this. He has the choice of NOT allowing his parents/relatives' opinions of him become his reality. He also should be able to be or become familiar enough with U.S. culture to realize that unlike what's the case in some other countries, one doesn't need to go to a top college to become a success in this country -- whether one views success as being related to finances or other criteria.</p>

75

<p>"can't you just offer him some nice words and encourage him to work harder?? "</p>

<p>"Because even if he had worked harder, the overwhelming odds are that he still wouldn't have gotten into the colleges that rejected him."</p>

<p>Exactly. Very well put, Northstarmom. </p>

<p>The opinions of these parents from other cultures aren't based in the reality of the situation in the US. Their opinion is based on several incorrect beliefs:
1) The Ivies are the only route to success in the US, all other schools are also-rans;
2) A kid who is Ivy-League capable will be admitted into the Ivy League for a reward for his / her hard work;
3) If a kid doesn't get into an Ivy League, he / she was not Ivy-League capable.</p>

<p>None of these are true. 1) certainly isn't. In an era of single-digit admissions rates, 2) and 3) aren't true either.
It's very paradoxical to me -- these families are focused on education, but part of education is learning the truth about a matter instead of just relying on one's feelings. Why doesn't anyone ever seem to want to take the route of EDUCATING the old-school parents and relatives in the old country that their beliefs / perceptions are not true?</p>

<p>If all I ever heard of was Oxford, and I wanted my kid to succeed in the UK and he got into Cambridge, and I replied that I was ashamed, this Cambridge thing means nothing, wouldn't the appropriate response be for me to be EDUCATED that Cambridge is as much of a means to success in the UK as Oxford?</p>

76

<p>Of they are the 'elite" in their own countries, went to college, etc, then they have a bit of a clue, but are choosing to only focus on a few schools here in America</p>

<p>First its oh, they are immigrants and don't understand, then its they are college educated at the top schools in their country and only want the "best"=its seems to be about ego, about only accepting perfection, and looking down on everything else and that is indeed very sad</p>

<p>Which is it?</p>

77

<p><em>showing off</em></p>

<p>lol at "even Brown" </p>

<p>kids die to get into that school.</p>

78

<p>form colombia, study abroad is a very important factor but not fundamental the level is very good here but if you study abroad you might get a higher education but many of your "contacts" in life you getr to know them during colleg... so if ou plan to life in your country (colombia) you should start your carrer here and then goo away por the master.</p>

79

<p>awww @ easchchina! That would have made a beautiful college essay! :)</p>

80

<p>Expectations from parents are one thing...been there, done that with my own. But, you are part of the next generation and (in time) need to move forward...because their rationale is just wrong. Why? Because you were admitted to exceptional schools...as acknowledged by many CC members. Time and physical distance (wherever you will matriculate) will bring all this to light. It's baggage that our generation needs to acknowledge and overcome. I did a long time ago...and was cognizant not pass that on to my children</p>