<p>"You act as though there is nothing logical about the subconscious. There isn't a single professor of psychology on the planet who wouldn't love to correct you.</p>
<p>As for cultural biases, of course you "can't imagine," it doesn't impact you at all. What may seem like straight forward language to you could seem convaluted to someone else. That's what the study of linguistics is all about.</p>
<p>Admittedly, this does less the explain drops for math scores (although is still present). For math I have two other explanations.</p>
<p>1) Geography and Socio-economics. African-Americans living in poverty tend to live in geographic clusters in cities. These areas, commonly refered to as "ghettos" tend to be filled with gang violence and drugs; the schools tend to be worthless. All around it is not an environment conducive to success. White Americans living in poverty are more spread out. Some live in cities, some in suburbs, some in rural areas. Very rarely do you see urban clusters of poor whites in the same you see for African Americans. As such more success conducive environments exist for white Americans of a lower socio-economic status.</p>
<p>2) Stereotype pressure. An interesting study (trying to dig it up) I once saw noted that for African Americans and whites with similar scores on the SAT, the African American students got more of the harder questions right, but messed up on more of the easier ones. This can be explained because of a stereotype pressure that would lead African Americans to believe that they are "less intelligent" than white people (a stereotype promoted by you). This causes them to second guess themselves on the easier questions, thereby lowering their scores. For more information I refer you to Stanford Professor of Social Psychology, Claude Steele: <a href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ws/steele.html">http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ws/steele.html</a>"</p>
<p>Of course the subconscious is important. But not in the rational conclusions we're trying to come to.</p>
<p>The "convoluted" language is English. Get over it.</p>
<p>I believe your first assertion is false. People of lower socio-economic status have fewer opportunities no matter what the color of their skin. That's a simple fact.</p>
<p>Secondly, explain to me why indigenous Africans also score lower. What kinds of stereotypes have been drilled into their brains? What kind of stereotypes are in the minds of the Arctic people? Also, your study refers to people of similar SAT scores. We're talking about an actual GAP among the average white and black IQ scores, not how blacks and whites of equal intelligence perform on a similar test. I am familiar with the study, though I fail to see its relevance.</p>
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We're talking about an actual GAP among the average white and black IQ scores, not how blacks and whites of equal intelligence perform on a similar test.
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<p>You are missing the obvious conclusion of the study.</p>
<p>The "blacks and whites" aren't of equal intelligence. The black scorers are "more intelligent," but score lower on the test because of the stereotype pressure.</p>
<p>You're also missing the point of the debate. That's irrelevant. Plus, you didn't explain why there's a general IQ gap between native Africans, and I don't see how stereotypes explain the lower performance of groups such as the Artic people and Pacific Islanders.</p>
<p>Having a black kid with good stats in college to make their college colorful is not fair??? Schools should only have kids with 4.o GPA and 2400 stats regardless of their gender and color to be fair!!!!!!!!!( IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FAIR!! ) THIS IS THE TWENTY FIRST CENTURY!!!!The colleges you talk about have how many black students versus whites, Asiain...etc Never having a Black President in the USA does not mean that they were NONE qualified CANDIDATES. GROW UP. MAY BE THE REASON WHY YOU DIDNT GET TO THOSE SCHOOLS MIGHT BE THE WAY YOU THINK!!! By the way I am white but not narrow minded!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</p>
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You're also missing the point of the debate. That's irrelevant. Plus, you didn't explain why there's a general IQ gap between native Africans, and I don't see how stereotypes explain the lower performance of groups such as the Artic people and Pacific Islanders.
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<p>You can't measure intelligence with a number...period. IQ is an attempt at measuring intelligence. It is not accurate all the time. There have been many conflicts over measuring intelligence with tests, and the many factors that influence scores.</p>
<p>URM students are just as capable as white students.</p>
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Having a black kid with good stats in college to make their college colorful is not fair??? but rejecitng 2400 sat with all stellar stats is fair??(Whites, Asians) The colleges you talk about have how many black students versus whites, Asiain...etc Never having a Black President in the USA does not mean that they were not qualified to be presidents. GROW UP. MAY BE THE REASON WHY YOU DIDNT GET TO THOSE SCHOOLS MIGHT BE THE WAY YOU THINK!!!
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<p>Don't get too excited. You might choke on your own drool.</p>
<p>I love how you guys can just assume you know everything there is to know about a culture that you're not from, that you take absolutely no part in. My parents came to America because they valued education. I'm sure that money had something to do with it, no doubt, but for you to say that a certain culture you barely know anything about doesn't value eduction is ridiculous. You can't just make that assumption or generalization and actually think that people will not be offended. </p>
<p>You do not understand what it's like to be a minority in America, so don't act like you do. </p>
<p>Anyway, I'm a minority and I don't think that colleges should accept people based only on race. AA should depend on resources/economic status. But if you're going to have a debate about this, be a little more aware of what you're saying. I may not agree with AA but I did find how some of you presented your arguments a little offensive.</p>
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I love how you guys can just assume you know everything there is to know about a culture that you're not from, that you take absolutely no part in.
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<p>I think it's much more likely that we would be biased if we were part of the culture. I've said this before on this thread, but: The mountaintops are best portrayed from the valleys, and the valleys are best portrayed from the mountaintops. Being a minority, I don't think you are necessarily the best person to ask about issues concerning minorities.</p>
<p>By the way, what do you consider "a minority?" I'm an atheist, is that a minority? Should I get arbitrary bonuses for that? Or do you only get rewarded for things that you can't control, for things that you didn't struggle through of your own choice?</p>
<p>Also, someone said that including minorities "diversifies the schools." I don't understand how what I have said previously about how most black people value athletics, sex, and family over education is racist and that comment is not. You're making the generalization that minorities automatically have different views than white people. Using your own logic, you could just as easily call yourself racist.</p>
<p>Further, diversity is not necessarily good. Should the top colleges accept more drug addicts, delinquints, and whores because they'll provide a more diverse atmosphere? Arbitrarily labeling diversity as beneficial is illogical.</p>
<p>If the best universities in the country are left to their own devices, they will select whichever students are the best. They're never going to say "this guy's black, so he's not getting in." If the minority candidate is better than the white candidate, then he'll always get in. The Ivies and the admissions committees aren't underground Klansmen...</p>
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I love how you guys can just assume you know everything there is to know about a culture that you're not from, that you take absolutely no part in.
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<p>hold up. I'm chinese. I'm chinese and lived in JAPAN. I'm chinese and lived in canada. I'm chinese and live in the US now. this is why I think I have a right to talk about minorities as if I know something about it -- because I've been and am one.</p>
<p>because I honestly don't see a difference between people of different races.</p>
<p>I looked up the word discrimination in a dictionary and this is the succinct definition it provided:</p>
<p>(noun) - Treating people differently through prejudice. </p>
<p>The dictionary should just reuse this definition for AA because that's what it does; treat people differently. It puts URMs on a pedestal and creates an attitude that whites and Asians are "expendible." Look at the definition of discrimination and compare it to AA. As far as I'm concerned, they're one in the same.</p>
<p>"because I honestly don't see a difference between people of different races."</p>
<p>This is exactly the attitude I have. Yet pro-AA people don't see it this way. For them, it's all about fancy words like "diversity" and "disadvantaged." For some unexplained reason, they feel that being surrounded by more URMs and less whites and Asians will somehow make a student better. This sentiment borders on racism since it goes back to the basic principle of AA: URMs are better than whites/Asians, so colleges should make it easier for them to get accepted. This next statement may be a cliche, but it's still remains true:</p>
<p>Let's just end AA and all of its stupidity and start juding people on their merits, not their skin color.</p>
<p>ok, what I don't get, is why should a poor white boy living next door to a poor black boy have a harder time of getting into college than his next-door-neighbor?</p>
<p>It's because the black kid no matter how hard he tries will be always be black he can't change his skin color, but the white kid if he suceeds will not have to deal with people not wanting them in the neighborhood. Or trouble getting housing in certain areas or he can change his name and people won't discriminate on hiring him for jobs he's obviously qualified for. Etc., etc. Don't ask like racism doesn't exist. I suggest you all takes classes in sociology and then you'll understand why AA really exists. I have seen my father deal with everything I said...including being paid less for doing the same work as white counterparts. It's statistically proven AAs are paid less even if they have the same or better qualifications at these high level jobs. 1/3 of AAs are what can be considered in poverty. Don't let all these rich athletes make you think things are completely equal. I still get stereotyped when I walk through a mall or pulled over occasionally when I drive....just because I dress a certain way and talk a certain way when around friends. </p>
<p>Also, how can you all prove that a rich black kid is taken over a poor white one? Where this evidence? Anecdotal evidence won't cut it and I doubt even that can be submitted.</p>