I need guidance...

Parents Forum
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<p>I’m a college freshman. I’ve pretty much always wanted to go the school I’m at now, but I guess expectations are rarely met by reality. Anyway, what I am trying to decide is if my strong love-hate relationship with my school is normal or a problem. Right now it really, really bothers me, so I would greatly appreciate any words of wisdom.</p>

<p>The academics are great. They’re much better than I had expected, actually. I like my classes and professors, and I feel like I’m getting a great education so far…It’s what is outside the classroom that’s bothering me. I have never been artistically inclined, and heaven knows I’m not one to sit around and discuss philosophy, so I thought I’d fit in well here. However…the students are smart, but they just seem to be on a whole different wavelength in terms of their learning style. In class, my poor professors are perpetually plagued by “Will this be on the exam?” Perhaps it is because such a large percentage is premed, but it seems like there is a lot more grade-grubbing going on than I’m used to. It’s not just about grades…I have always been an avid reader, and I still continue to read, although I don’t have nearly as much time to do so. Since I’ve been here, though, I’ve been called a “nerd” for reading more times than I care to remember. I know this is a really petty complaint, and it’s not a representative sample of the entire campus, but I do think this mentality has a strong presence on campus. As a matter of fact, earlier in the year I worked in the library as a shelver. They had to lay people off because nobody was checking out books! So I’d rather read than get drunk and play beer pong like everyone else…so what? I don’t mean to imply that I’ve been antisocial- quite the opposite, in fact. I’m involved with a number of activities (including the Catholic group, Campus Crusade, tutoring, and several others), and I’ve been to several parties. Most of them just don’t really make me comfortable. I have several friends that I do stuff with, but I can’t seem to form a core group of friends like I did so easily in high school. Maybe I just haven’t given it enough time? Maybe I have a skewed view…I don’t know. My dorm is infamous for being a party dorm, which I think colors my opinions. Most of the people on my hall are drinkers and heavy partiers, so it hasn’t been easy finding people that I get along with. I realize that such heavy drinking occurs mostly among freshmen, so it doesn’t bother me unduly. I’m not against drinking, but I wish some of my classmates and hallmates would learn the concept of moderation. </p>

<p>My question is how much of this is normal? I absolutely despise the pre-professionalism that is so rampant here, but I’m not sure I want to go elsewhere, although that’s probably partly stubbornness. There are some days when I really like school, but there are also many days when I wish I were anywhere else. I cannot think of anything I haven’t tried already, so any thoughts would be most welcome. I don’t know if the problem is me or my school. :(</p>

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<p>I don't know what to tell you. You have pretty much described your school's reputation, so I don't think you are misreading things.</p>

<p>There are schools with a higher proportion of the student body who share your views. There are schools where reading a book instead of getting plastered is not considered to be worthy of derision. So a transfer is certainly a viable option.</p>

<p>Conversely, I'm sure there is a significant percentage (although a minority) of students at your school who share your views. So sticking it out as you continue to seek out like-minded friends is also a viable option.</p>

<p>I really hate reading stories about students who feel marginalized because they are engaged in their studies and don't drink heavily. There's no reason that you should be made to feel like an outcast on a college campus.</p>

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<p>In case you didn't see it in the thread above, here's an article that might help you see that much of what you're feeling is pretty common: <a href="http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/13746530.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/13746530.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Yes, it does take time to form a core group as tightknit as your high school group, so don't let that be your only reason for leaving. It sounds like you are doing all the right things but just haven't found your niche yet. Is there any chance that you could move into a substance free dorm or floor? That might help a bit.</p>

<p>Hang in there --- more people than you know are probably feeling the way you feel, but no one wants to admit it. Give it a bit more time, and if you're still feeling this way in a few weeks, think about going to the counseling center to talk things out with someone. I personally believe there is nothing wrong with transferring, but it should be done carefully so you don't jump from one unhappy situation to another. You might start by thinking about the other schools you applied to or considered last year, and whether they would be very different from where you are now. </p>

<p>I'm so sorry you are going through this. ((((hugs)))))</p>

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<p>I'm not a parent, but I go to Duke too (I assume that's where you are?). I have some of the same complaints, but I've also found a sort of niche. My advice would be to wait it out, at least for a bit. I'm still adjusting myself- it takes effort, especially at a large school. The nice thing is that the large size means there will be people out there who share your interests. Do you read the bulletins boards? Surprisingly, many people don't, but there's lots of cool activities posted. You said you like to read; the English department has out-loud-readings of a particular book every now and again. I went to the reading of The Odyssey and thought it was awesome; there's more activities that are out there. Also, have you picked out a roommate for next year yet? That's important and can make a big difference. Good luck! :)</p>

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<p>Bluedevil09 - I will just add a bit to the solid advice you have gotten so far. Even though it's been a few weeks since school has started again, another factor that may be contributing to your "downer" feelings is that you recently came back from the Christmas holidays. If you had a great time with friends and family, your feelings of not being anchored get even more prominence. It's great that you are active in the campus community so there are compensating factors which get you outside of yourself (such as the tutoring which I think is great!) If the untethered feelings persist over the next several weeks, Carolyn's advice to talk to a counselor is excellent. Counselors can be wonderful sounding boards to work through difficult times and your privacy is secure. A couple other suggestions, get out of the dorm and go for regular walks around your handsome campus. It will help clear your head and even lighten the blues some (a recent study said exactly that). Also, talking (maybe not "confiding" but something akin to it) to a professor or two that you really respect might be beneficial as well. They have been around the University for quite a while in most instances and may give you some ideas. I was a transfer student myself after my freshman year, but I ultimately left my prior university with good friends and memories. You are obviously a thoughtful, insightful person (which your post and asking for this kind of advice obviously demonstrates) who has already made a base hit (oh those baseball analogies) by not "toughing it out" alone as many guys do. I believe you are already well on your way to answering the questions you raised in a manner that will be right for you.</p>

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<p>Transferring will probably not help much with this point. "Will this be on the exam?" is the universal mating call of the Red-Crested Grade Grubber, AKA The Premed Student, the world over. They were constantly saying this 30 years ago when I was in college, and it looks like nothing has changed. (Actually, not all premed students sing this song, but there is always at least one in every premed course, which gives the impression that, like other pest species, they are everywhere.)</p>

<p>As for your other complaints, I think that Duke is a big enough school that in there somewhere there must be a community of students who like to read and discuss books. You just need to find these people.</p>

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<p>All of the above. And if you still don't like it, transfer. There are sure to be a couple of dozen other colleges out there that might meet the bill. No sense spending $180k on a place that doesn't float your boat.</p>

<p>It's nice to be able to find your niche. But (from experience) I can say it is definitely nicer to be in a place where it's all around you, so you really don't have to.</p>

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<p>I think it is normal for the first semester to be something of a roller coaster. I absolutely adore my school, but even now there are times when I feel a bit isolated and depressed. These times have been few and far between recently, but they were more common at first.</p>

<p>It is unfortunate that Duke does not offer sub - free housing (or that you are not in it), because I think that one of the most crucial reasons for why I adjusted so relatively quickly is that I am living with a lot of people who don't consider getting drunk the best social option. I am also taking an intense humanities sequence, which may be home to the biggest "nerds" around, if you define "nerd" to be someone who reads all the time.</p>

<p>As others have said, I think you would find a lot of kindred spirits out there, although, depending on circumstances, it may take you longer. My advice would be to fill out a few transfer applications. If you get in somewhere, which you probably will if you are getting good grades at Duke, you can decide at the end of the year whether or not you actuall want to leave. Good luck!</p>

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<p>Well, HOWDY BlueDevil09!!!!!!!!!!!</p>

<p>I am the mother of another '09 Blue Devil!</p>

<p>Much like you, my son harbored dreams of being a Blue Devil for many years prior to his applying, probably since about 4th or 5th grade. When his dream became a reality last spring with an acceptance, I had some serious concerns about the idea that the reality of attending Duke could not possibly live up to the years-long fantasy my son had entertained. Before he left, we discussed this in detail, and we talked about the major concerns that each of us had.</p>

<p>Fortunately, in my son's case, Duke has proved to be most everything he had envisioned. The major concerns that we both had before he left have simply not been issues at all. That said, however, my son has encountered some things that are not completely to his liking, but he does recognize that this type of thing will happen most anywhere. </p>

<p>About the "grade grubbing"---When you look at the type of student that is drawn to an ellite college, it should not be overly surprising that a good many of them are intensely competitive and achievement (grade)- oriented. I'm sure that this is just a fact of life at most of the highly selective colleges. Nevertheless, I am also sure that there are many others at Duke who are more intrinsically motivated in terms of their studies. It is simply a matter of finding those other students, which may or may not be a simple thing to do! :) I do think that warblersrule had some good suggestions, such as reading the bulletin boards and perhaps being able to find a group that would appeal more to students like you.</p>

<p>About the partying dorm....I can very much sympathize with you on this. My son is not a partier, so he made the choice to live in Brown, the sub-free dorm. He doesn't have to deal with the all-night partying, but there are other issues with that dorm, one of which is the stigma of being "no fun." <em>lol</em> My son chose this dorm because he is something of a health nut (works out everyday, etc.) and NOT because he has a philosophical or religious objection to drinking/partying, so he finds himself a bit at odds philosophically with some of his dorm mates. Still, he has managed to meet some wonderful friends, despite the differences. </p>

<p>Well, I've kind of rambled here, but basically what I'm trying to say is that my son does not, in much of any way, meet the description of the "typical" Duke student in terms of the general reputation. He is from a small town in Kansas, a financially modest family of 8 (six kids), and a non-partying background and philosophy. He is a committed student, but not "grade grubbing." Nevertheless, despite his being atypical in so many ways, he has been able to meet and become friends with some fabulous kids, many of whom are quite different than he. </p>

<p>I honestly do not think your experience is horribly unusual for a freshman. Aside from the emotional adjustment of being away from home for an extended period of time, there is the academic adjustment to being in a very competitive environment. It is a bit more difficult to establish relationships with new friends in college than it is in high school where you have so much in common with everyone there simply by virtue of attending the same school. I know that when I went halfway across the country to college, I had an experience very similar to that which you are having now.</p>

<p>My advice is this: give it some time. Be a bit more proactive in seeking out activities that might put you in touch with other like-minded students. Continue to explore a wide range of campus activities and events. And then, if you are still unhappy and/or uncomfortable with your situation at Duke, follow carolyn's advice above and talk to someone in a counseling position. It may be that you WILL be better off ulitmately transferring, but the chances are equally great that you will find your footing at Duke in a short period of time and will one day look back on this time as part of a typically shaky freshman year.</p>

<p>My heart goes out to you as you struggle with this decision. I hope that whatever resolution you choose will ensure your happiness.</p>

<p>fondly, ~berurah</p>

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<p>I am a Duke graduate - finished almost 25 years ago. I attended on athletic scholarship - needed one to go to anything but a junior college - and never gave much thought to whether I fit in or whether the school was right for me - I didn't have a choice in such matters - product of a single mother home - if I wanted to go to a top flight academic school - it was either Duke or Stanford that gave Div. 1 athletic scholarships - so there was not much choice. Introspection over where I could have been was not a luxury I could indulge in. </p>

<p>With this as a background, getting through and doing well at Duke was one of the hardest and most rewarding things I have done. And while I went onto a top flight graduate school (doing better than I could have expected), Duke was far more rigorous than graduate school and certainly more intellectually challenging. My spouse, a Duke graduate as well, queries whether my Duke experience was so challenging because I was so time pressured with athletics, but while that was a factor, I think the most significant factor was that Duke simply set the bar as high as I wanted to go. I was in a honors program with a 125 page thesis requirement and saw so much red ink on my drafts I thought I would never get it right. It taught me that real learning involves ego damage, and maturity - an invaluable experience. It is true that social factors - Greek life, drinking, etc., can be huge distractions (I did not partake in these - hardly positive things for an essentially professional athlete) but those occur virtually anywhere. Encourage your own sense of self - and let the place challenge you. You are exceedingly privileged to go to any university of Duke's caliber - make the most of it.</p>

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<p>Thanks everyone. You've given me lots of food for thought. :)</p>

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<p>Hi BlueDevil..my S is also in your class and I have a few comments. I notice that it is that awkward time when you have to find a group of friends and start to consider who you will live with next year and how you will make that decision re housing. My S reports that this is a stressful turning point for many of his buddies who are not sure what to do next and how to group re housing. Feelings are running a bit high and some of his buddies are feeling unsettled and uncertain.<br>
In my freshman college year, I had only located a couple of friends who became lifelong pals, and was still in awkward mismatches in housing and also in vocational plans. By sophomore year, I had extricated myself from spending time with people that were tiresome for me and found a few friends who made me feel grounded and cared about. I think it is unrealistic although trying for you..to find your true blue circle after one semester. And you sound like you have a lot of positive energy and have made some efforts to be open and available to friendship --so good for you. But your timetable might should open up to allow you to find your niche. Talking with a counselor may help you sort out the issue of Transfer or Stay.
S is in a regular dorm but most of his friends don't drink and his roommate won't even drink coffee. Being fit and healthy is thankfully also cool with some cache in your generation. I would encourage you to embrace this sort of awkward spell as normal and work through it by getting into alternate settings like courses that are not premed requirements and groups that are about biking or outings or community service and simply don't go to any parties that bore you. It is possible you would be happier in a smaller college where access to teachers is exceptional, but it is also possible that a form of happiness and fulfillment are around the corner at Duke.
My S has had peak rewarding experiences in his readings, course work and in the arts at Duke, and is up late all the time talking to students he finds fascinating. Perhaps because he likes subjects like the arts and philosophy as well as science...he has been in smaller courses where it is all about lively academic discourse. Pithy conversation with pals and pursuit of visual arts and musical arts take up a lot of his time although he is also enjoying the sports, math and science. He is very inspired so far although the premed atmosphere there is certainly what I would also call a Pre professional atmosphere. Premed doesn't have to be that way and you can craft a premed track at Duke that deliberately brings you into smaller and more intimate learning environments. I would challenge you to take up some new academic offerings that might attract non premeds for part of each day. And to remember that many of your classmates are also feeling some dissonance but for reasons that are unique to them.</p>

<p>Interested Dad..I am a big Swattie fan and my best male friend teaches at Swarthmore and I visit him there with S..we love it. Usually I agree with your Swarthmore posts but your sweeping statement that "there are schools where reading a book instead of getting plastered is not considered to be worthy of derision" does not reflect the many students I know at Duke who I found to be quite earnest and engaging. And I am aware that some students at Swarthmore also drink and party in ways that many would consider to be as tiresome as the OP finds the same behavior to be in his dorm at Duke. But back to the OP, who sounds like a thoughtful freshmen seeking his home base at a school of 6000..I think it is very hard about this time at many colleges to have the newness wear a bit thin to see the frayed edges and flaws at any campus. Making a sort of family for yourself can take a year or even two and can have many false starts and disappointments. A smaller college can often offer closer access to mentoring and intimate relationships with professors and you indeed might find more of that if you transferred. I would give it more time and pick up two more outlets that were not premed requirement focused. Please keep in mind that many of your classmates are experiencing some angst and dislocation, too. When I was your age, I was in a liberal arts college where Campus Crusaders had a highly visible presence that I found off-putting and they made me (and many others who transfered) very uncomfortable. I reluctantly prepared to transfer although I liked many of my teachers and friends very much. I mention that reverse experience to yours because I want you to realize that many of your classmates are still adjusting... but I don't agree that Duke is not intellectual enough or that everyone is a grade grubber. I think your discontent is something that many people experience when they are in a large strange place without a home base of core relationships yet. Hang in there..you sound like a person who is going to be able to think this through and who will be rewarded some day with that circle of friends that make every day inspiring. good luck</p>

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<p>I agree with Mini and to some extent with InterestedDad: while there may very well be kids like you at Duke, college is the one time where it shouldn't be so hard to find like minded people (that is the one most special thing about undergrad years as opposed to the rest of your life). Schools do have different cultures...they do tend to draw kids who like that prevailing culture. And there are schools that have a higher proportion of kids like you than Duke may have, where you may feel more at home without having to work so hard at it. So, while you should continue to seek out activities where you may find kindred spirits, you should not be afraid to simultaneously seriously consider transferring. A number of schools come to mind--some LACs, as well as Brown.
While I do agree that "grade grubbing" can be found at all schools, it's all a matter of degree. Same with partying, drinking, frat life, etc. So, consider a two-pronged approach: make an effort to make it work for yourself at Duke, while at the same time, perhaps get the transfer wheels in motion so that option remains a possiblity if you continue to feel out of your element.</p>

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<p>Quote: "what I'm trying to say is that my son does not, in much of any way, meet the description of the "typical" Duke student in terms of the general reputation."</p>

<p>Unfortunately, the so-called "reputation" is constantly perpetuated by people (including certain cc parent posters) who really know nothing at all about the school, and have no experience at all with the school. I would hate for my child to base an opinion on a single student's freshman experience. Come on !!! I bet you could find unhappy freshmen students who have not adjusted at any campus in the world. From what I have seen on this board, Berurah's son's experience may be more the norm at this particular school than the unhappy OP. It's unfortunate that some of the parents with kids at other schools use the OP's experience to denounce a school that they know nothing about other than it's "reputation. " Again, it is unfortunate that some of these same posters are recognized as such valuable cc contributors because of the number of posts they have generated over the past few years, sometimes spewing the same old crap!</p>

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<p>1sokkermom - How about backing off! I admire the "unhappy OP" for having the guts to seek advice on difficult personal circumstances. Start another thread on Duke if you want, but don't pollute this thread of thoughtful advice with your over-the-top diatribe.</p>

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<p>Sorry lonestardad.</p>

<p>It was not meant to be "over-the -top diatribe". It was meant to present a different opinion. I think the OP has a valid post.</p>

<p>It was some of the responses that I was offended by. However, everyone is entitled to an opinion. My fear is that some of the parents present their biased "opinions" as absolute fact to some of the students seeking advice. That's all.</p>

<p>The comment really has nothing to do with Duke. :)</p>

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<p>I agree with Donemom.</p>

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<p>Let me underscore this - Duke is expensive, and yes it attracts elite students - but it has plenty of diversity - socio-economically, politically (except among the faculty), racially, geographically and ethnically. About the only thing it doesn't have is commuter students (maybe a handful). Treat your friends well, - value them - and it will be returned - you'll find people of your liking.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Duke is expensive, and yes it attracts elite students - but it has plenty of diversity - socio-economically, politically (except among the faculty), racially, geographically and ethnically.

[/quote]

I would second this....absolutely. My son has been just thrilled with the diversity he's found, even just among friends in his dorm. Having come from a very homogenous school in small-town Kansas, he was actively seeking this type of change. And Duke has NOT disappointed him! ~berurah</p>

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<p>I am a sophomore at Duke, and I find it to be the best possible blend of academic activity and bacchanalia (of all types, alcoholic or otherwise) possible. BlueDevil 09, I think if you searched a little bit harder, you'll fall as in love with Duke as most of its students. Let me say that I was surprised when I read this post, because In my three semesters, I've never heard a fellow student say anything but laudatory comments about Duke. I sympathize with your feelings, and hope my advice can help.</p>

<p>Pay attention to the fact that the guy shotgunning a beer in the parking lot is probably setting the curve in his econ class, or the girl playing beer pong in k-ville is an accomplished painist. I find that students here know how to reach the best balance for them, personally - academics always always come first, then as much fun as they can squeeze into their downtime. I hope you can find that. </p>

<p>Head out to K-ville to wait in line for a basketball game. There'll be several beer pong tables set up, and ample exteremely inebriated undergrads. But there'll be just as many undergrads reading a philosophy text, completeing problems sets, or just chilling with friends while they play cards or watch a movie on a laptop. </p>

<p>As for you being called a "nerd" I assure you this is not a representative sample of the student population. Let's be honest, we're all nerds. That's why we're at Duke. Everyone I know laments the fact that we're so swamped with schoolwork we don't have time to pleasure read anymore.</p>

<p>As for preprofessionalism, can you blame them? These kids are premed, prelaw, their future depend on getting into, and being successful in, grad school. Grades and undergrad education are a huge factor in that. </p>

<p>What I'm trying to say is that myself, and everyone else I have spoken to, find our "gothic wonderland" to be a vibrant learning environment where everyone is absolutely brilliant, but still a place where we can be ridiculous, crazy, hang out with friends, paint ourselves blue and scream in cameron... and I hope you can manage to see these things in Duke also.</p>