<p>zipdrive, you're constructing a strawman. No one said that saying the pledge is a violation of one's rights. The OP said that being FORCED to say the pledge is a violation of his rights, and, quite frankly, it is. If people have been avoiding that topic, it's just because they don't want to get into a flame war.</p>
<p>i dont like the color green</p>
<p>bumppppppppp</p>
<p>I definitely don't think "In God we trust" should be on our money either.</p>
<p>And "under God" was added to the Pledge in 1954 (may not be exact year) simply because of fear of the "damned Reds." ;)
It isn't an historical salute to the "foundations" of our nation. The phrase is a response to Cold War hostilities against the Soviets, who, as Communists, rejected religion and were a rival superpower at the time.</p>
<p>I stand, place hand on heart, and say "under God" loud, whenever I recite it.</p>
<p>The U.S. was founded on Christian beliefs. The vast majority of U.S. citizens are Christian. If you don't like the "Under God" in the pledge, and "In God We Trust" on our money, then get over it.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The U.S. was founded on Christian beliefs.
[/quote]
Not really. Separation of state and church was one of the "revolutionary" changes during writing of US constitution and articles of confederation.</p>
<p>PS. As a christian, I don't have anything against In God We Trust on coins but have a lot against church influencing politically so the mere claim about US being founded on Christian beliefs called me to write response.</p>
<p>^For some reason, what you said reminds me of mormonism...very wierd religion.</p>
<p>Back on topic...I think people should stand for the pledge or else you look disrespectful and lazy. If you dont believe in God (I don't) then don't say "under God".</p>
<p>I don't see what's the big deal about not saying the pledge of allegiance. Saying the pledge of allegiance isn't really patriotic, in my opinion, it's just a social ritual, it means nothing. I mean if you ask me if I like America, I'll say yes (although I'd like it a lot more if they got rid of social security, NAFTA, and the patriot act) I don't see why it's necessary for me to "show" my appreciation by reciting some lame pledge. Before, zipdrivekid or tripperian jumps all over me yelling "omg liberal wah wah wah", I'm not a liberal, I'm actually a conservative (libertarian)</p>
<p>About the whole "god" on money and in the pledge of allegiance. I'd definitely feel it should be removed, but I don't really care if it stays. I mean, nothing will change my beliefs, I know there's no god. So why should I care if a bunch of christians who are so insecure in their own beliefs that they feel the need to push their beliefs on everyone.</p>
<p>screw the drew! libertarians are just as bad! You need to wake up and smell reality...a libertarian system would never work and YOU KNOW THAT! What is with the kids on this site and trying to apply the methods they learned in philosophy to the real world?! Seriously, get real.</p>
<p>Isn't the whole point of philosophy to learn things that apply to your beliefs and to your life? Oh, and zipdrive? You can't just go around in life and say, "screw you!" to anybody that doesn't believe the exact same things that you do. That's not how the world works. "Seriously, get real."</p>
<p>I am real because I know that these philosophical methods dont work in the real world...need I mention the Soviet Union?????</p>
<p>If the philosophical methods "don't work in the real world" is there any point in studying them? And if there's no point in studying them, is there any point in thinking about life or anything important at all?</p>
<p>Oh dont you dare pose any philosophical questions to me you dirty, dirty, liberal you! Of course there is a point to studying the stupid methods....so people can learn that they are so stupid that they could never be applied to the real world......so chew on that for awhilie.....and while youre chewing, take some time to check out your own special thread.</p>
<p>My own special thread for me? Created by zipdrivekid? I feel so honored!</p>
<p>why would I post on a thread that you started? Why would you start a thread about me?</p>
<p>
You KNOW? Knowledge is traditionally defined as a justified, true belief. Justification and logical reasoning tend to fall apart when applied to a subject like the existence of God. One can logically argue against omnipotence, but logically disproving the existence of God is another matter entirely (as Popper would say, the theory is not falsifiable).</p>
<p>"What is with the kids on this site and trying to apply the methods they learned in philosophy to the real world?!"</p>
<p>I have no idea. And on that note...</p>
<p>If Tommeister has an IQ of over 20, I will shut up. Tommeister does not have an IQ of over 20. Therefore, I will not shut up.</p>
<p>P: Tommeister has an IQ of over 20.
Q: I will shut up.</p>
<ol>
<li>If p, then q OP</li>
<li>Not-p OP</li>
</ol>
<p>Therefore,</p>
<ol>
<li>Not-q 1,2, by Modus Tollendo Tollens</li>
</ol>
<p>"screw the drew! libertarians are just as bad! You need to wake up and smell reality...a libertarian system would never work and YOU KNOW THAT! What is with the kids on this site and trying to apply the methods they learned in philosophy to the real world?! Seriously, get real."</p>
<p>way to make empty claims.</p>
<p>'You KNOW? Knowledge is traditionally defined as a justified, true belief. Justification and logical reasoning tend to fall apart when applied to a subject like the existence of God. One can logically argue against omnipotence, but logically disproving the existence of God is another matter entirely (as Popper would say, the theory is not falsifiable)."</p>
<p>I should have phrased that differently, I meant "very little doubt that there is no god"</p>
<p>I have one word of advice for people trying to have a serious debate with zipdrivekid...</p>
<p>You can't reason with a lunatic.</p>