<p>Zipdrive: You clearly have issues...... Don't you know how to debate in a civilized, intellectual manner, it's far more efficient than forcing your opinion down other people's throats and expecting them to accept it blindly.</p>
<p>i dont bother to have intelligent debates with hippie college students who are just being liberal to oppose the "man." Ill end up winning in the long run when you guys go conservative at the age of 30. NO wback to the flag thing....one must stand to say the pledge if they are an American citizen. It is that simple. You guys havent been intelligently debating me either. All you guys do is respond to my pathetic insults. You guys have yet to give me a good reason how being asked to stand up and recite the pledge violates ones rights!</p>
<p>Wow I just noticed that the tommeister thread magically disappeared into fat air...has someone been whiny to the mods :) :)?</p>
<p>Hippie?! I've been called a "business hippie" but never a "hippie". I cant't believe you're calling me a hippie!? Also I doubt I'll be going conservative anytime soon, seeing as I am already a conservative.</p>
<p>You do realize you provided no justifications for any of your claims about libertarianism. You just provided a conclusion.</p>
<p>Anyways <em>forcing</em> someone to do something against their will is indeed a breach of their personal liberties. One should not be forced to do something (as long as it harms no other citizens or their property) they do not want to do.</p>
<p>hey i got a 98 on my last philosophy test.....anywho in regards to your comments about just providing a conclusion blabh blah blah.....just read fides' post again to see what I think about 50% of phil.</p>
<p>Wow, I think you're the one who doesn't want to have an intelligent debate.</p>
<p>yeah I knew that philosophical fallacy of "well i know about it bc i did good on the test" would peeve you to no end. Ya see, the funny thing here is I actually know what im talking about, but I dont want it to turn into anything even remotely close to an intelligent debate.</p>
<p>Yeah, the United States isn't built upon Christianity. It's built upon a set of morals present in every world religion. Sorry, but you guys aren't unique in instructing followers not to kill/steal/commit adultery/whatever. For example, I don't kill people, and I'm not a Christian. Imagine that--PERSONAL morality.</p>
<p>The U.S. wasn't founded on the Ten Commandments. It was founded on universal moral values.</p>
<p>
[quote]
one must stand to say the pledge if they are an American citizen.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Zipdrivekid, I DESPISE your despicable use of the word "must" as the word "must" implies that you have an obligation to do something. For example, you MUST eat, you MUST drink, or else you die. You MUST pay your taxes, or else you go to prison. You MUST sleep, or you won't have any energy. You MUST have a driver's license in order to own or drive a car. You MUST have a passport to go to Europe. These are things you use the word must for.</p>
<p>On the other hand, NO LAW ON THE FACE OF THE PLANET SAYS YOU "MUST" STAND AND SAY THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE IF YOU'RE AN AMERICAN CITIZEN.</p>
<p>
[quote]
You guys have yet to give me a good reason how being asked to stand up and recite the pledge violates ones rights!
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You can ASK someone to recite the pledge all you want, but you can't MAKE someone do it. If the person doesn't believe that the US is indivisible, I would say it's wrong to put a gun to their head and tell them to say so. That would be a total and complete violation of the freedom of speech and thought.</p>
<p>"Who cares if you say the pledge or not? That doesn't make you unamerican if you say it, and it doesn't make you more American if you do. You seem to be implying that The United States of America, the greatest country on Earth, is represented through this little song. IT'S NOT!</p>
<p>America is represented through it's ideals: All men are equal, pursuit of happiness, our Bill of Rights...That is what makes america great, not s stupid lyric."</p>
<p>Well said.</p>
<p>Observation: It seems those in favor of saying the pledge are the ones slinging s**t on this thread.</p>
<p>Wow, is it really necessary to get so ugly about it?</p>
<p>Small is right - it's the deeds, not the words, that matter.</p>
<p>Personally I don't mind saying the pledge - it had good intentions when it was created. I prefer to see the good in it.</p>
<p>I really dislike it when people mutilate the flag, too, because the flag really did symbolize some wonderful values when it was created.</p>
<p>If only we could have a true patriotism, in which people voted and their votes counted, and people cared, and truly lived up to the values this country was found on.</p>
<p>It's the hypocrisy that I have a problem with.</p>
<p>Like atrocious acts being committed in the name of 'freedom' and 'democracy.' Like war. Like the mudslinging on this thread.</p>
<p>Atrocious. Yeah, something to be really proud of, right?</p>
<p>futurenyustudent.....youll fit RIGHT in where youre headed...I hope I see you there next year, it would be nice to bring some republican to that school! Anyway, with regards to your post, im not saying people should be forced to say it DEE DEE DEE. Im just saying that you should at least show SOME respect for the country that is allowing you to go to your 45K/year school by saying the pledge! Oh, and to the kid that posted below you, I dont sling mud, I just insult. I cant remember if you said something about the war or not, but if you did, I supported the move to go into Iraq :). Of course, it looks like were going to be there for awhile, but eh...we cant just pull out can we? I also like how some of you are honestly getting "insulted" by my posts. Funny, to be insulted by a thread on CC....But back to my point, do you guys even LIKE the US? IF you like the US, dont you WANT to say the pledge?? Why would you not want to say the pledge to a country that is, imo, awesome as hell? Is it really asking too much of you to say a few lines? Nobody is forcing you, and dont you at least have enough character to show respect towards America, your homeland?</p>
<p>Yah...sure ok I'm quite liberal actually...but whatever...it's nice to have a real conversation with a republican though...usually they degenerate into screaming matches.</p>
<p>Anyway I believe that if you don't want to say the pledge or any part of it, (then don't) you shouldn't have to, but you should at least stand up for the pledge.</p>
<p>Yeah your use of the word "must" kind of bothered me lol...:D</p>
<p>LOL oh I have no beef with you! Yeah, my use of the word must really did throw lots of people off. I guess I just have issues with tommeister's laziness.</p>
<p>My "laziness" is due to the fact that I don't spend all my time on the computer. I have more important and worthwhile things to do than engage in 'debate' with an idiot.</p>
<p>Zipdrive, stop acting like you're the lone Republican on the internet, fighting against the tyranny of liberal colleges and protecting the pledge against the evil Communists who wish to destroy it and all it stands for. Cause you're not. I know plenty of Republicans who can actually hold rational arguments and I'm sick of you givig them a bad name. As it is, you have ignored almost every point that anyone else has brought up against your conclusions and responded with repetition and ad hominem attacks.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I dont sling mud, I just insult.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>What an effective discussion strategy. Impressive.</p>
<p>Well, USA isnt the only country with the pledge of allegiance as a morning procedure. In India, the kids sing the national anthem in the morning. It's not meant to brainwash you or anything, its just a song...</p>
<p>
[quote]
Funny, to be insulted by a thread on CC....But back to my point, do you guys even LIKE the US? IF you like the US, dont you WANT to say the pledge??
[/quote]
.. if you like the US dont you WANT to kiss the flag everyday ..
.. if you like the US dont you WANT to sell all your property and give it to US government ..
.. if you like the US dont you WANT to defenestrate (heck, I love the word) someone if he says something bad about the flag?</p>
<p>Seriously, I think your patriotism is too fanatical.
I also think it will pass out with age.
[quote]
one must stand to say the pledge if they are an American citizen.
[/quote]
Oh, cool, I'm a permanent resident so this doesn't really apply to me! :D</p>
<p>Any citizen who refuses say the Pledge, or at least stand in honor during it, should be kicked out of the country. No trial, no jury -- kicked the F*** OUT! Send 'em on a one-way flight to North Korea, in chains.</p>