<p>DS attends large public school, 500/class, in the no mans land of mountain states. He is applying to tippy top tech schools. Students from this HS rarely go out of the region, and I don't know a single one that is attending top schools, although there may be one or two. </p>
<p>His GC has been very nice, and I've visited couple of times over the past 2+ years to discuss his courses/progress. She's reasonably informed but hasn't done many top school apps, if any. In early sept. I stopped by and gave her the various forms for our EA school and discussed where he was applying and the difficulty of getting into these schools, with which she was not very familiar. She was very receptive and wanted to be helpful.</p>
<p>With all I've learned on CC, I dropped her an e-mail last night about couple of potential areas of concern in his app. His GPA is not 4.0 as he has few B's in English/History classes. including from an Honors teacher who is famous for not giving out A's (one year it was 2 out of 90, according to rumours), and I asked her to address those as she felt appropriate. Also his rank is not in the top 5% as the schools does not weight grades and I think there are a fair number of students taking non-honors/AP classes that are ahead of him in rank with their straight A's, and I asked her to note that also if she agreed. I tried to be humble, respectful and non-demanding.</p>
<p>Anyhow, I got an e-mail back from her and she sounds quite annoyed. Wrote in ALL CAPS that she always notes that grades are non-weighted in her LOR. Didn't say anything about my other point(s). I was a bit flabbergasted as we've always had very pleasant interactions, and I don't think I've been pushy or overly intrusive. Our school profile says very little about anything BTW.</p>
<p>So now she's going to write his letter this weekend and I don't think she's very favorably disposed to my family. Arggghhh.</p>
<p>Is there the remotest possibility that she feels your son should be the one talking to her and she is tweaked because it’s you and not your son?</p>
<p>When I’ve had to contact my kids’ GC, I’ve found that she’s more friendly when I meet with her in person w/my child. By email, her replies are short and to the point. I can only imagine that she gets tons of email.</p>
<p>momofthree: I don’t think so, but who knows? I’ve thought about being the helicopter mom, but realistically, this sort of application ‘finishing’ is not something I would expect a 16 year old science nerd to know or care about. In his mind, he gets the grades and the scores, writes his essays, and that’s how you apply to college. And in everyone else’s mind here, his GPA and rank are just fine as they would be excellent in vast majority of colleges. He does interact with his GC independent of me.</p>
<p>Can you nicely say or write, “Thank you for confirming that the grades are always unweighted in your LOR. Based on talking to friends of mine elsewhere, I’ve heard that some GC’s aren’t as on top of it as you apparently are! Thanks again for all your hard work, insert butter-up sentence!” Kind of that cheery, of-course-you-had-it-under-control mentality?</p>
<p>My version of Hanlon’s Razor … never attribute to malice what can be explained by a bad day at work, teen mischief, a call from the repair shop, or an evil comment by one’s mother-in-law.</p>
<p>NewHope (BTW, can I call you Luke?): that’s what I’m assuming. DS did see her today dropping off his resume and he said she seemed regular. However, he is a few steps down the science/math nerd–>Asperger road so I don’t completely trust his assessments of peoples moods etc. I trust her professionalism will trump any other stuff.</p>
<p>Not to be stupid, but I don’t know Hanlon’s Razor?</p>
<p>Not everyone is well-versed in email etiquette, meaning that she may have just meant to send you a quick reply and not known that by writing in all caps she was yelling at you. Since the issues were presented by you in a way that was rhetorical (you can address the rank if you feel it is necessary…) maybe she just didn’t think she needed to respond.</p>
<p>Even if she is annoyed, since you have had an amicable relationship up to now I doubt it will affect the quality of her recommendation.</p>
<p>Don’t worry. It only matters if she’s mad at your S. Also, trust the process. I think the college application process can only really be manipulated to a certain extent. The truth is that schools are looking to put together a class of kids…I know some kids or families are occaisonally disappointed by the process, but I really believe the schools do a good job figuring it out.</p>
<p>This past spring and summer as we found out where all the kids were going to school, there weren’t any REALLY? moments. It all made a lot of sense. I’m sure your S will get into a fine school. :)</p>
<p>Maybe her caps lock is stuck? I’d pop in and say hi-- angry as she may be (without reason…even if you were being unreasonable it’s her job to deal with that politely, and it’s also her job to help kids get into the best schools possible), she will not likely be rude in person, and a moment’s friendly chat will likely defuse anything unpleasant.</p>
<p>Yes, but if she was busy she might not be able to sit and talk…At DD’s high school they have 3 GC’s for 2500 kids and parents cannot just drop by and chat on any given day…</p>
<p>Only the first part of her e-mail was all caps. She switched off when she started about his resume. I’m OOT on business right now. Anyhow, he saw her after she’d sent her e-mail so I’m thinking the sight of his sweet face would have softened her up. She always said very nice things about him unsolicited.</p>
<p>In my opinion, you had two reasonable requests. I don’t know why she wrote back in all caps and only addressed one thing. I can’t tell if she thinks you were telling her what to do when she already makes sure to note that GPA and rank are unweighted. NOT justifying her position but making a wild guess how she may have taken it even if your request was totally valid.</p>
<p>You could write her back and thank her very much and say that you weren’t sure how the transcript or counselor report notes this and you are very grateful that she confirmed that this is pointed out on her report to colleges and thank her for her efforts. </p>
<p>Now, I am going to suggest how you may have gone about this differently (even though both requests were very valid ones). My own kids (now out of college) and the students whom I advise, prepare a packet for each rec writer and GC that is individualized for that person. They include the requisite forms and resume but they also write a well crafted letter to solicit an effective recommendation and discuss things about themselves specific to their work with that person and so on. In the case of a cover letter to a GC, this is where the student would note that he would appreciate if his GC report makes mention that his class rank is not a full reflection given that it is unweighted and many students not in the harder track classes are ranked above him and also to note the situation (using the specifics of the 2 A’s out of 90) with that particular teacher). The cover letter should address far more than this providing the rec writer things to talk about in relation to your son but this is also a place he can ask about things he hopes the GC will mention and she can take or leave his input. This letter should be crafted by the student, not the parent. </p>
<p>There are things a parent can do in this process but this is not one, in my view. A parent can do a secretarial tasks like collate the forms for the packet but not be the one who does the resume and equivalent of what should be in the cover letter that the student discusses with the rec writer as to what he hopes the rec writer may include about himself. I don’t think the parent should make that request. The student should provide lots of information and any requests when handing over his packet to each rec writer and it should come from the student.</p>
<p>I think you’ve built a couple of tipping points. It may not have been one interaction that tweaked her but a combination. Assuming (right or wrong by the way) she was unfamiliar with the schools to which your son is applying is already cutting into her credibility. And if you’ve had several interactions beyond this “final straw” email, which again, she could read as her not knowing her job, than I can understand she might be a tad ticked, especially if she might be less than experienced in general. </p>
<p>Our school would have responded to your email by saying it is your son’s process and he should bring any applications, requests etc to them. And while I perfectly well understand your point of view, I am just going to throw it out there that he is not too nerd to be responsible for his getting into the college HE hopes to attend. Trust me when I say it’s a lot better to encourage this to be his process beyond the grades and essays. Let’s just say that his taking the bull by the horns here would probably go a long way to her writing a good recommendation. </p>
<p>I agree you should send a follow up email and somehow eat some crow. I know you are very busy and I greatly appreciate all that you do on our son’s behalf. I am also sure you know how crazy this time of year is for so many and I would agree I am somewhat nervous in making sure all the I’s are dotted and Ts are crossed.</p>
<p>You should never had been the one to approach the GC. If your son can’t turn in a form himself, there is a problem. </p>
<p>This is HIS job, and no matter how reasonable your request was, your son should have been the one to make it.</p>
<p>You need to have your son make all future contacts with GC. ANd I would tell the GC that. That you realize your son should be the one to handle HIS applications.</p>
<p>Are you going to write his essays as well. I am going to be more blunt here than the others, you need to step way way way back. Give your son some crredit and don’t assume he cant handle this himself. Your job at this point is to guide hiim, not do for him. If you think he can’t handle the forms, than maybe he can’t handle college.</p>
<p>Let him do this. My schools GC made it very clear its was our kids process, their applications, and it HAD to be theirs. What if your son was planning on talking to GC himself and mommy did it for him? How do you think that would make him feel, that his own mother thinks he is not capable of doing the most rudimentary paperwork for college applications?</p>
<p>Sorry to be harsh, but you can’t justify away the overstepping of boundaires here. Millions of kids handle their applications and dealings with GC without mommy, and your son can as well. Again, give him a chance!!! He will surpise you and if he doesnt then maybe he needs to make a mistake or two.</p>
<p>I would also appologize to my child for complicating matters by getting in the middle of his process and aggravating his GC. Imagine now he has to go in and work with the GC, who thinks the kid can’thandle his own applications because his mom met with her, and it seems has continued contact.</p>
<p>I talke to my Ds GC very seldom. During the college process, I literally had no contact. If there had been any problems, I would have helped my D through the process, ie, if GC doesn’t do this, then maybe you should do this, etc. GC aren’t too thrilled when parents do the work of the student. </p>
<p>I would eat humble pie and tell my son I was very sorry for thinking he wasn’t capable of handling this. That I was there to help, and such, but I knew that my very smart kid could deal with it. I would also tell the GC that I had goten overly excited and nervous and that from now on my son would handling the applicaitons himself and that I new he was in very capapble hands.</p>
<p>I think that she could take from your email that you are trying to DIRECT HER LOR, which is something that she might be peeved about. </p>
<p>Your S has a few Bs in history/English when he’s applying to a tech school? Big deal. You expect the GC to explain a B–“the teacher grades hard”?! I think that would be a weird addition to a LOR.</p>
<p>The school doesn’t weight for rank, and any GC worth her salt would note that on the LOR or Secondary School Report along with noting that he’s taking the most rigorous schedule available. She probably took your email to imply that you didn’t think that she knows how to do her job.</p>
<p>Super selective schools know about the problems with class ranking when you don’t weight grades. </p>
<p>I’d feel differently if we were talking about a disciplinary issue that needed careful explaining or a family/personal hardship overcome that could help an application. Otherwise, leave the GC to do her job.</p>
<p>Good heavens, ilovetoquilt22, what discourteous posts.</p>
<p>When a student targeting highly selective colleges attends a high school whose counselor does not have experience processing applications to such colleges, it is important that someone in the student’s family know exactly what’s coming from the school and act as an advocate for the student. There are components to these applications that are just not part of the equation for in-state publics. Yes, the student can advocate for himself, if he has the time and inclination. But I think it’s OK for the parent to act as advocate. OP, I think you were on target by trying to ensure that the GC’s recommendation letter reflects the high school’s lack of a weighted grading system. As others have mentioned, asking the GC to note the English teacher’s rigorous grading policies may have been the irritant. So be it. I agree that you should try to smooth things over with the GC. </p>
<p>When a counselor lacks experience in processing applications to selective schools, there is no need to apologize for advocating for your kid and making sure the school does what’s needed to support his applications. This kind of advocacy is not the same as drafting a child’s application or writing his essays!</p>
<p>I don’t think the actions of the OP are that outrageous given that the OP states it’s a large public school with not a very large number of students moving on to more prestigious universities. The college application process is fraught with stress, anxiety, uncertainties and parents best hopes for their children. How does one overstep boundaries if they are unsure what the boundaries are…This is especially true the first time something tricky is attempted.</p>
<p>Perhaps -PERHAPS - the parents did not receive adequate information from the GC office on how the process was to be handled? PERHAPS this is the first child for this family attempting the college application process.</p>
<p>We were fortunate in that my daugher attended a private, college prep hs and the GC office is very skilled at communications. We had ONE preliminary meeting early on with student and parent(s). Thereafter, the student handled all activities. The guidelines were clear. Not all schools are as informative.</p>
<p>The smugness of some on this site never ceases to amaze me. How arrogant to write “Are you going to write his essay’s too”! Jeez! </p>
<p>To the OP - put some of your anxiety away. Your son is in a tough competition to gain admittance to a “top tech” school. His HS acievements will get him into college. He should apply to reaches and safety schools. Let his accomplishments speak for themselves and know that the Admissions offices at colleges know their job. Don’t worry about every i being dotted and every t being crossed by others. Relax a little and enjoy his senior year.</p>
<p>Appreciate the comments, both positive and negative. Food for thought for me.</p>
<p>DS is perfectly capable of turning in forms, doing his own resume and essays and does it all the time. I took in the forms once because it was a chance for me to give her some background info on the schools with which she was not familiar. In fact, she told me she appreciated the info and asked if it would be OK for her to share it with other GCs. Just to give you an idea, one of the GCs said last week that kids shouldn’t bother with the Common App because no one uses it.</p>
<p>What DS is not capable of doing is working various situations to his best advantage (and apparently nor am I). If he wrote a letter like Soozie suggested, his recommenders who know him would fall over laughing because it would be so out of character. This kid had no idea what his GPA/rank was until about a month ago, and I’m not sure he remembers now. He did HS and his ECs his way with really very little thought to how this would play out for college. He did happen to fall in love with some top tech schools, and fortunately and fortuitously has the stats etc to be largely competitive. But the idea of him assessing where his weaknesses are in his app and prophylactically addressing them would be a foreign language to him. He would think to do that no more than he would go and ask a teacher how he can get a better grade. Just woudn’t compute. </p>
<p>As I see it, there are 2 parts to the app, the data and then the way all parts are put together. He has no interest nor aptitute for the second part. Does that mean he should have less chance of getting into his dream school for which he is otherwise qualified? Does that mean he’ll suffer when he has to put in for grant apps etc in the future? Maybe, but I expect he’ll be a different person at 26 than at 16.</p>
<p>I will write to GC, although what I’ll say, I haven’t quite figured out yet. After my previous visit, I really got the feeling that “we’re in this together and lets do whatever we can to get this kid where he wants to go” feeling which is why I felt I could send her the e-mail I did.</p>
would have softened her up. She always said very nice things about him unsolicited.</p>