I think our GC is mad at me!!

Parents Forum
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<p>I can tell you that I didn’t say anyhing that wasn’t said by many other posters on this thread, i was just less subtle.</p>

<p>“Inclination”- if the student doesn’t have the inclindaition to turn in forms to a GC and his mom does it for him, do you think the GC is going to say, yes, this student is ready for college and mark the best boxes? i don’t think so.</p>

<p>No GC I know would appreciate a parent coming in, turning in paperwork for their child and then telling them how to do their job.</p>

<p>So, you think it was okay for the mom to go to the GC and hand in the forms because she didn’t think her son was capable or cared enough to do it himself, because that is what the GC saw. The OP said herself she didn’t think her son was so inclined to do it himself, or was too busy or whatever.</p>

<p>We act as if turning in forms to Yale is so much different from turining in forms to Montana State. Its a form, you check the boxes, you mail it off. A letter to a school is the same process regardless of the school. If a school has a particular for, than the student prints it out and turns it in to GC.</p>

<p>The GC rarely sends in a typed out letter, that is for the teachers to do, For the vast number of schools its a form, and many cases, its ONE form on the common application for hundreds of schools.</p>

<p>Would you also suggest mom go to the son’s teachers and tell them how to write the letter to those top schools? </p>

<p>And if that student doesn’t have 5 miinutes to meet with a GC or nor the inclination to do so, mom has a larger problem on her hands that a recommendation letter from a GC. </p>

<p>If an applicant doesn’[t have the inclination, mom should NOT step in. What a family member should do is help student keep track of all the compoents of an application, make sure the printer has ink, ask questions, and such. It is not for them to do the students job. </p>

<p>What about an interview? Should a family member advocate for student there?</p>

<p>The majority of compoents for a private school application are student created- resume, application, essays, etc.</p>

<p>Basically, the school is responsible for:</p>

<p>Transcript
GC recommendation form
2 letters of recomendation from teachers the student chooses
School profile</p>

<p>Am I missing something?</p>

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<p>ihs76 - Just tell the GC what your best intention was and that you’re sorry if you offended. Often we stumble through unknown territory finding our way, but we do get to our destination :slight_smile: I think you’ve got good communication skills and she will understand. If you help guide you son on the finesse of this entire app process, he will land in a good place.</p>

<p>ilovetoquilt22 - You’re sure not missing disdain. Points can be made politely with less superior haughtiness.</p>

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<p>I posted that last post while the OP was posting hers. I know I am coming across strongly. I just think the OP really needs to know that in most cases, she crossed the line. </p>

<p>If son has aspbergers, than the OP needs to think about that when son applies to schools. Many colleges will not be the kind that seek out the student. The student HAS to be their own advocate, and if they don’t have the chance to do that in HS, they will be lost in college. If they can’t ask a prof about a paper or a grade, they will be lost. They can be the smartest, sweetest, most amazing kid, but it is going to be tough if they haven’t advocated for themselves. </p>

<p>Any student needs to be their own advocate. We can help. but even those with special stuff going on, at the college level, they need to have the tools to change a class, ask for help, check on an assignment, etc. Those tools are necesarry for college and if a student doesn’t have the “inclination” to stand up for themselves, then THAT is where parents step in, we work with our kids so THEY can be their own advocate, doing for them is not beneficial to them in the long run.</p>

<p>I apologize to allif I am to brusk, but I don’t think it does us any good to always tell people, sure, what you did was okay and a good thing. The OP asked, i shared.</p>

<p>I also wondered this attitude that doing applications for private schools, the idea that applying to a “prestegious” school is somehow more complicated than just your regular second tier private. The differences are generally the student part- essays. The rest, from the HS end is basically the same. I don’t understnad why that even matters, how prestigious the school is? </p>

<p>i know kids that applied to some amazing schools and the process was no more complicated that our state univeristy. In fact, it was probablly less so, as the student didn’t have to fillin their own grades, just have a transcript sent. </p>

<p>The hardest part of the application process is the essay. And keeping track, that that is up to the student and family, not the school. </p>

<p>If I come across as superior, maybe I took offense that aplying to elite, prestigious schools was somehow more difficult than just ypur run of the mill thousand other schools.</p>

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<p>ilovetoquilt: </p>

<p>“you think it was okay for the mom to go to the GC and hand in the forms because she didn’t think her son was capable or cared enough to do it himself”</p>

<p>“OP said herself she didn’t think her son was so inclined to do it himself, or was too busy or whatever.”</p>

<p>Could you show me where I said these things because I re-read my posts and can’t see where I said anything close to this, and it is not true.</p>

<p>And no he does not have Aspergers, I said he is few steps down that road, which is not uncommon in science/math nerds.</p>

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<p>This isn’t all that unusual, if I read it right. Parent wants best for her child, wants to make sure application best reflects DS, and is concerned that GC doesn’t know best ways to present him to top colleges. GC feels that parent is questioning her abilities and gets offended. Despite knowing parents often are anxious, making it not so unusual to have them try to direct them, she reacts poorly (in tone if not in message).</p>

<p>I’d find a time later to stop in and apologize for overstepping, and you’ll likely receive an apology in return for the tone. BTW, I’m the parent of an Asperger kid, so I understand that you might need to do more than other parents throughout this process. Even though it doesn’t sound like your son is diagnosed, some of the issues may be the same, and I wouldn’t worry about parents of neurotypicals who don’t understand the limitations. It sounds like you’re doing just fine.</p>

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<p>I will leave this thread. My apologizes. </p>

<p>i am just one who thinks that we should give the tools to our kids and let them build.</p>

<p>One last thought, and this is something that needs to be really considered when looking at colleges. </p>

<p>You will not be able to advocate for your child in college, which is just a year away, like you are know. And if your child, any child, doens’t have the tools nor do they feel the need, to be their own advocate, you will not be able to step in. The student will have to do it herself. They will have to fill out the application for study abroad. They will have to fill out the application for the internship. They will have to talk to the RA about the jerky roommate. They will have to talk to a professor about a questionable grade, or how to do the project. </p>

<p>Those are the points I was trying to, im my very clumsy way, to get across. </p>

<p>You will not always be there, and this is THE year to work on the skills they have to have to succeed in college. And learning how to put themselve in the best light for college jobs, internships, etc is something that needs to be done during this application process. and if we do for them, they won’t know how when they have no choice.</p>

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<p>^^^^^</p>

<p>These are all good points. However, not every kid is at the same developmental stage. You have to trust the parent to do what’s best for their kid, as they know them best. Do they/we make mistakes? Sure, and I understand that you’re trying to point out potential pitfalls for those who may not have gone through the process before.</p>

<p>For DS, I realize he’s not able to do many things yet which his peers can. We had him doing LOTS of things his senior year which were difficult for him (it was not a fun year), but there were some things we did for him that probably shouldn’t be done for most other seniors. We worry about his ability to advocate for himself in college, and he’s currently struggling, but we chose his school in great part for the supports offered. In time, our hope is he’ll learn these skills, but we want him to have time to learn and grow at a pace which is right for him.</p>

<p>[high horse]iltq22 (and those responding), like the OP’s issue with the counselor, it’s often not what is said, but how it’s said. Anyone surfing discussion boards should know that sometimes, legitimate points are often not stated in ways which are well received. I wish everyone would state things in ways which don’t offend others, but outside of fantasyland, we all need to try to channel Rodney King.[/high horse].</p>

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<p>Many GCs at large high schools such as my own are overworked and extremely stressed. They spend all day being treated with borderline contempt by arrogant teenagers and parents who blame them for things completely outside of their control (grades, schedules, etc). She received a somewhat presumptuous email (it is HER letter of rec) after a long day, it’s no surprise that she gets a tad upset.</p>

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<p>ilovetoquilt: maybe you’re not here anymore but… I don’t disagree with anything you said. And we are, and have been, working on all of these things. But something like college application, the biggest ‘thing’ that he has faced in his 16 years of life, does not seem like the optimum time to throw him out there and say “you’re on your own, good luck, and if you fail, I hope you learned your lesson.” There are other venues where this lesson can be learned with less significant consequences. And, before anyone jumps on me, I am not suggesting its dream school or he will be ruined for life. But, I believe this is the first time in his life that he has really wanted something and he is working hard (for him) for it and I would like for him to succeed.</p>

<p>Knowitsome: LOL on “neurotypical.” I’d never heard that term before. Yes, I am sometimes amazed at things he doesn’t pick up. Especially in contrast to DD who picks up on ‘everything’ and will require absolutely no help from mom for anything (other than credit card).</p>

<p>noimagination: I really tried to couch it in terms of “if you think it’s appropriate, we would appreciate if you would…” And again, she had been so “I’m with you all the way” at the last visit, that I thought it would be fine to let her know what we needed. Good thing I didn’t offer to come in and educate the entire GC staff on things I’ve learned here :)</p>

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<p>Ilovetoquilt…while I agree with the basic ideas you have, it is coming across as overly harsh. </p>

<p>I don’t think what the OP did was so bad at all. But I do think that the parents’ role should be more of the guide and not the doer. So ideally, she would talk to son about what things the son wants to get across to the GC when asking her to write the counselor report (same with any other rec writers). But son is the one who asks. Parent assists behind the scenes. I don’t think it was so terrible this parent asked the GC directly but just not ideal. And now she can thank the GC for assuring her such stuff is included in the school report and she did not realize it was customary or something and appreciates the teacher’s efforts. But it does come across differently to the techer when the parent asks. </p>

<p>To the OP…you may say it is out of character for your son to write such a letter. All I can tell you is that EVERY single one of my students…who, I should add, run the gamet from very poor stats students and some with LD to high achievers, craft letters individualized to every single rec writer and GC to include certain elements I guide them to write about to solicit an effective recommendation. Rec writers appreciate getting anecdotal information and highlights of what a student hopes the college will know about him/her. This is the way to go about it. If it is not natural for your child to do, I totally understand. You sit him down and guide him as to what to include in such a letter and proofread it. Even when my D applied to grad schools and asked professors for recs, she crafted very individualized letters to each rec writer to help them to write the rec. Not only is this helpful to the rec writer, it will help the student obtain a more effective rec. If your son wanted the GC to speak to these particular things, he could have included that in his cover letter with his rec packet forms and resume. It doesn’t matter if this is not natural. This is a time to sit a student down and show them how to go about such a task which they will do again in their lives when requesting letters of reference. </p>

<p>I see nothing wrong with talking to your kid’s GC! I’m just saying that your child should prepare information and requests in writing to his rec writer so that the rec writer or GC doesn’t have to field emails and calls like this but rather the student presented the writer with everything he/she needed to write effectively and to include what the student requested to include. The GC or rec writers can opt to ignore what they wish but the student has shared what they hope will be included. For example, the student could have said he was so proud to obtain a B+ in Ms. X’s class knowing how difficult the grading was and that an A was rare but he achieved to his highest levels and is proud of such and such paper or project, etc.</p>

<p>Btw, I know it is hard for parents to step back. Senior year is a good time to transition from doing things for the kid to making them entirely independent. A happy medium in senior year is for a parent to be the guide and facilitator and then having the teenager carry it out. This will benefit them as they head off to college and have to be independent and you won’t be there to make the calls or emails (as a parent, I was very involved in K-12 but never called or wrote my kids’ colleges…they were on their own but certainly ran certain things by us if needed).</p>

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<p>soozie, I’m not sure how to guide him as I have no idea myself how to do it. Never did it through college, graduate school, professional school. But that was back in the day…</p>

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<p>Just one question and comment–is S applying ONLY to “tippy top technical schools”? </p>

<p>He should have a safety he feels good about. If the stakes are not quite as high, perhaps the OP won’t have the tendancy to helicopter. Just a suggestion.</p>

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<p>Now how could I claim any status as a helicopter mom if I let him do that? He has matches and safeties on his list but they will be RD. He hasn’t seen most of them yet though, so don’t know how he will feel after he sees them. That will be next month. He <em>really</em> loves his dream school though, enough to actually study for the standardized tests.</p>

<p>After I wrote the above, I went back and changed all the ‘we’ to ‘he’ and ‘our’ to ‘his.’ See, I’m learning.</p>

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<p>IHS…you’re a good mom. :)</p>

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<p>Just for the record, both my kids have attended public high schools with 2000-3000 kids and the GCs write a <em>personal</em> letter for every kid applying to college. The students fill out a questionnaire/short essays the spring of junior year, and parents are asked to do so as well. At one school, S, DH and I met with the GC in spring of junior year; the other GC met with just my S in the same time frame. </p>

<p>To the extent DH and I had questions about what would be shown on the transcript, explianed in the GC letter, etc., we brought up those in our meeting with the GC and in the parent questionnaire. The occasional email from a parent is OK by me, but I made it clear to my kids that they needed to deal with the GC, teachers, etc. It is an important part of getting ready for college and life (and having to talk to professors, bosses, clients, etc.), and both of them needed to acquire some self-advocacy skills. It wasn’t sink or swim; they got some dog-paddling lessons first. ;)</p>

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<p>I very much agree with the differing developmental stages. It still amazes me how much they grow and change throughout this year. I think this is even more true with boys. Girls, in a huge generalization, are a little more cognizant of the details. It’s also another reason why I am a little dubious out ED (but perhaps a different discussion). Son is currently attending a school that came on to his radar a little further out in the process than some others but the moment he saw the school he knew it was a great fit. </p>

<p>I would also disagree that GC’s only check boxes. In fact, I know that none of son’s teachers or his GC checked boxes and most definitely wrote an accompanying recommendation. But I also think you can be very helpful behind the scenes. </p>

<p>Oldest D went to huge HS with not so savvy GC’s. Overworked and definitely a little lean on various schools. We made the list together, had two meetings with the GC together. And whereas at s’s private school there were student and parent reflections to write, at D’s school only the student wrote a profile. And yes, I went over my D’s form several times with her before she handed it in. </p>

<p>I also made folders for every school and every teacher with stamped envelopes and kept track of where the applications were in terms of completion. These “secretarial” duties were done for the student at son’s school, and so really I wasn’t doing anything other than what a good personal assistant might do. </p>

<p>My point is, even if you’re hovering a little bit (or a lot), it is best to stay as far behind the kid as reasonable for the situation. As the year progresses, you can let the tether out a little bit more and more. Definitely don’t get involved in their essays, except for perhaps grammar (but even then I might enlist an English teacher or an Uncle or Aunt). I think it is really easy to steer a kid away from their own voice in writing.</p>

<p>This said, I never felt the OP was even leaning towards writing the kid’s essay. Just to put that out there.</p>

<p>But I still think eating a slight bit of crow and putting forth that your intentions were honorable and certainly wasn’t so much questioning the competence of the GC but more about your lack of knowledge of the process and about what is the usual and customary procedure of the school. You can certainly blame some of your confusion on getting a ton of different advice from people attending differing schools, and that for such a huge decision, you just know there are few do-overs if any. You are a little anxious, understandably so. And I think you can relay that in a nice note before the weekend. :)</p>

<p>The point is, I agree there are a lot of ways to say thing and as my grandma used to say, “you can capture a lot more bees with sugar rather than vinegar.”</p>

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<p>ilovetoquilt, our GCs always write a letter in addition to filling out the common app form. My kids have been fortunate to know their (very overworked) GCs better than most, but in addition to any personal knowledge the GCs ask the kids to prepare a resume and they also go and visit with current teachers asking for further impressions of the student. They work hard on the kids’ behalf.</p>

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<p>I also feel that the problem is too much parental involvement. Certainly it is highly possible that is what triggered the snippy response from the GC – I’d take that as a strong hint to butt out. </p>

<p>To the OP: You are not helping your son by assuming that there are parts of the process he is too young or not ready to plan for. You are getting in the way of the process and also creating a potential rift with the g.c. You don’t want the g.c. to be writing a letter with the picture of “socially awkward kid with pushy mom” in her head as she writes. </p>

<p>So if there is some bit of information you think your son doesn’t understand – talk to HIM. Give HIM the information and let him decide if he wants to discuss it with the g.c.</p>

<p>There is a line between offering useful information to a g.c. and telling them how to do their job, and I do think the line is crossed when you are asking the g.c. to explain away or excuse less than perfect grades. You aren’t giving the g.c. information she didn’t know – you are trying to persuade her to present objective information in a way that fits your preferred bias. (And personally I think that your suggestion to her is the wrong way to go, in any case. It is a good idea to explain potential negatives on a transcript, but only if there is a very good explanation – offering a flimsy excuse or rationalization just draws attention to the weakness).</p>

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<p>I wrote her a nice (I think, anyway) e-mail apologizing if I’ve been too pushy. Noted that DS has been working hard for his part, and that I was anxious to do everything we could to help him, but if I crossed the line, apologies. That’s the gist of it anyway. </p>

<p>calmom: he’s not socially awkward fortunately, just not interested in working situations to his best advantage. I really don’t think the GC dept would have any idea why his GPA/rank could be considered a liability anywhere, albeit a small one, as it’s excellent for almost every place that local kids attend. And again, I was very careful to ask if she agreed with the premise, could she include this in her letter.</p>

<p>And you know, it was very frustrating that the Principal would tell you publically, yes we know your kid will get at most a B in this class because the teacher doesn’t give out A’s, yes she is the only one that teaches Honors English, yes kids opt out of that because of this problem and they can then keep their 4.0, but you should still have your kid take it because it’s better for them. We did and here we are. Not his only Bs though.</p>

<p>And my other thought was that given his 35 in ACT in English, schools might see his B’s as ‘slacking off’ which he did not, and I thought a little context might be helpful. But I’m probably wallowing in minutiae. Although as noted in other threads, its transcript, transcript, transcript…</p>

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<p>My point is, because you initiated the contact, you might create the impression in the g.c.'s mind that your kid is socially awkward and/or that you are a pushy parent. She didn’t hear from him – she heard from you – so she doesn’t have much of a chance to get to know him. She certainly is not going to get the sense that he is capable or mature if you are the one initiating contact with her. </p>

<p>On the other hand, if you suggested to your son that he talk to the g.c. about what colleges will be told about the grading system, and he showed up to her office asking the questions you suggested … then the g.c. would get the impression that he was interested in the college process and wanted reassurance that his record would be presented in the best light. (That is, as long as he didn’t begin his sentence with, “my mom wants me to ask you…”). So if you want to “work situations to the best advantage” – then you should work the situation so that that your son looks like he is engaged and highly motivated. (And if your son tells you that he isn’t interested in playing along… you should respect his wishes. This is his college application process, not yours.)</p>

<p>I do think you did the right thing by sending a nice apologetic email, and I also think that you really are focused too much on the minutia, which is a hazard of being on these boards. You can get good information from CC, but there’s also a lot of bad information here, including a hyperfocus on stats and vying for the most competitive schools. </p>

<p>Your son’s high school transcript is what it is – if one teacher is a tough grader who rarely gives A’s… well, a lot of kids come from high schools with teachers like that. But as you noted, that’s not the only B he’s got. </p>

<p>Anyway, I’m not here to argue with you. I think that the best way you can help your kid is to remove yourself from interactions with teachers or the g.c. unless it is a very serious or major concern, or unless it is a situation where your participation is invited. </p>

<p>As long as you do things for your kid that he ought to be doing for himself, you are standing in the way of his own growth and development – and whether you want to or not, you give outsiders the impression that your son is not capable of handling these matters on his own simply because they see you doing it for him.</p>