I think our GC is mad at me!!

Parents Forum
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<p>I think, as with everything in an application, the adcoms at super selective private schools look at the context surrounding a kid. If your school only has 5 APs, the adcoms take that into account and won’t expect a kid to have taken 10 by his or her senior year.</p>

<p>In the context of a kid from a busy public school where the GC doesn’t know them well, the adcoms are not expecting a highly nuanced LOR written by a person with great letter writing skill. </p>

<p>We’ve been lucky at our pretty middling high school that the GCs are very interested in helping top kids get into tippy top schools. “Lucky” for them that there aren’t many who try. Because we’re located in CA, and the state schools don’t require any GC involvement in the applications process. So there aren’t as many LORs required to be written by any one GC during a year.</p>

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<p>I have been following this thread with interest and this is only my third or fourth post on the site but I feel the need to weigh in. I agree that there are many, many “right” ways to parent. All of the posters have had very valid points and there has been something for all of us to take away from each opinion. My children are fairly independent. They both learned to do laundry at ages 10 and 12, can cook a meal and do their own banking. As far as the college application process, though, well, the stakes are very high. If your child goes to a large high school with overworked GCs and your child is taking 4 or 5 challenging courses while trying to balance extensive ecs, it can be a recipe for disaster to expect them to handle all of the clerical details and follow up that the process requires. Am I going to allow my child to lose the opportunity to attend the college of her choice because she didn’t follow up with guidance on a transcript request? No. It isn’t the same as having her miss a concert because she waited too long to try to buy a ticket.<br>
My oldest daughter was a normal high schooler. A bit of a procrastinator, more interested in socializing than her other responsibilities. Overall a good student who needed prodding. When it came time to apply to colleges, yes, I helped with the details. She did her part, of course, but I helped, reminded, double checked. She is now a junior at a very large university and from day one of her freshman year she has known that this is up to her. She contacts her advisors, respects her deadlines, handles her money and accounts and, most important, finds opportunities to succeed and takes advantage of them. All by herself. It comes with maturity! Each parent knows their own child and from reading this thread from the beginning I think the op certainly knows her son. She seems like an attentive mom who has a deep understanding of her child and knows what it takes to mother this particular young man. If every child had just a fraction of this type of care, we would all be much better off. Really, the world is filled with heartbreaking cases of horrific parenting. If you are visiting this sight, chances are you’re not one of them.</p>

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<p>Exactly. Thank you. And it’s not just large high schools. Some private schools have less than optimal college counseling as well. </p>

<p>Yes, calmom, my kids can do their laundry (although I confess that much of the communication I’m receiving from my freshman son revolves around that subject.) They can fry an egg. Both held down jobs during high school, either during the school year or during the summer. They are both outstanding, independent kids. </p>

<p>But no, shuffling paper for college admissions is not the same as doing laundry. As EPTR said, the stakes are very different when the bad outcome is turning your load of whites pink vs. having your college applications dinged because you were more focused on preparing for the Chemistry Olympiad than on following up for the umpteenth time on whether your counselor actually wrote your narrative recommendation. (We’re not talking here about writing a wonderful recommendation, we’re talking about writing any recommendation at all.)</p>

<p>Look, if your kids did it all themselves, wonderful. I mean that without a trace of sarcasm. Mine didn’t. I took on some of the ministerial tasks, the vital secretarial work, if you will. I do not think for a minute that that I have thwarted my children’s development or long-term ability to survive independently.</p>

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<p>Well, also, senior year really isn’t what it once was, either. I mean, the kids didn’t take 100 APs and work as hard as they could up to the very end. Just the classwork alone is so intense now in ways it wasn’t when the process was first invented. Also, the simple existence of GCs in almost all schools at this point show that the process is seen as too complicated for kids to simply handle on thier own. And, if your kids was faced with a sub-par AP calc teacher, you’d probably get her a tutor. So, it’s never as cut and dried as it seems.</p>

<p>The process does work, though, and it is exciting to see how happy most, if not all, of the kids really are about their school choices, in the spring!</p>

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<p>Obviously, from this thread alone, everyone has different takes on what amount of parent involvement is appropriate for the high school years (some even mentioned elementary and middle school years!) and in college and so on. Nobody is exactly “right” and there are different degrees, different situations, etc. I agree with someone who said that every parent here on CC is very caring and involved to some degree by the nature that they even found, read and participate on CC! :)</p>

<p>So, I’ll chime in my take…even though my preference is not better than someone else’s here. My perspective comes from being a parent of two girls, 20 (almost 21) and 23 who have both graduated from UG school, as a former teacher, and as a college counselor who works daily with juniors and seniors and their parents. </p>

<p>I think by junior or senior year in HS…parents have to move into a sort of transition time with the kids so that by the time the student gets to college, they can be fully independent. I think parent involvement in K-12 is entirely appropriate. I do not think, however, that in the upper high school years, that the parents’ interaction with the school should be instead of the student’s and is more of a behind the scenes advisor. The parent would have to step in at the high school if either the student made an attempt there on an issue to no avail, or else there was something that the parent needed to be involved in parent to teacher on that end of the matter. </p>

<p>Anyway, when it comes to college admissions stuff…my view is that the student should drive the process. I realize that we all have different types of kids. Some need constant pushing and some are internally driven. Believe me, in my line of work, I see the entire gamut. Admittedly, my own kids were motivated and driven and so nobody pushed them to explore colleges, to do the applications and so on. However, they did not do this process entirely on their own. They had someone guiding and supporting them who discussed the steps along the way but did not do the steps for the child. As a college advisor, that’s also what I prefer to see. I don’t think a parent hands-off approach is ideal, but I also don’t like when the parent takes over and does a lot of it for the kid and even answers all the communications I am trying to have with the student. </p>

<p>What I like to see is that someone is facilitating the process and checking in with the student, looking something over, talking about how to go about something ,etc. but then the student does it. While a parent can research schools and find out information to save their child time (that’s cool), it can’t replace the child exploring their colleges. The parent should not be creating the college list. THe student should explore the schools…a parent could suggest certain ones they have learned about…and the student devises a list and consults with the parent about it as a team at that point. The student may even ask a parent to find out something for them if they have time while they are at school. But the parent is not taking over…the student is still running the show. </p>

<p>The one place where I DO think a parent can do some things FOR the student is in the area of secretarial tasks, if willing. In other words, as a parent, I did call the schools to line up the tours and made hotel reservations, made the audition appointments, and so on. My child personally wrote professors to meet with them and I never did that. My kids filled in their own applications but I may have as secretary downloaded and printed them out to save time (my kids’ schedules were insanely full seven days per week). But my kids gathered up all the essay prompts, requirements and so on. Then they discussed it with me. We might xerox copies for them or run the package to the post office. There are some secretarial things that a parent can do without taking over. They can meet with their child and talk about what steps the student is working on that week for college admissions and see if there is anything the student wants the parent to do to help out that is not the meaty stuff but is menial in nature. The parent can proofread an essay and give feedback (I did). The student can write a cover letter to the GC and every rec writer discussing what they hope the rec writer will share about themselves, and the parent can look that over.</p>

<p>There still is a parent role in this process, in my view. But the bigger portion is now on the kids’ lap. The parent is more of support personnel. Once in college, my kids handled everything at school themselves. They might consult us about a matter (usually none of that was academically oriented), and we would give input or advice in how they might handle it) but they dealt with things on their own. I think in the upper years of high school, parents need to move kids in that direction or else those kids will have difficulty being entirely independent in college, where they truly need to be.</p>

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<p>Absolutely. I was merely suggesting the MacTessa, with only two posts, probably has some profound wisdom she’s holding back from us. Spill it, MacTessa! Bathe us in the light of your knowledge! And also welcome. :)</p>

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<p>admit i havent read every post on here, but have sampled. back to the op, i personally dont think there was anything wrong with what she did and see no reason the gc should have got upset. as others have said every child is different and every school is different. and i dont think its overstepping to suggest something that might help your child if you have a concern. all that being said…i must admit that i seem to start any communication with son’s gc (minimal) somewhat apologetically and worried i might upset her. I really shouldnt as she is really nice and has always answered any questions i might have…i just worry if i do upset her, it might reflect on my son. as my son attends a school 6 hours away and we only see him at school breaks, i did do a bunch of the secretarial work, and put together a binder with printed out apps, all forms, essay topics etc and mailed it to him. If your child is home with you every night perhaps you can give the task and sit back to allow them to do it, but when they arent home, you begin to feel a bit helicoptery as you dont know what is being done and what isnt. Up to this point i havent called the gc to see what he has done, but i drive him crazy asking/texting to see if he has and to give him specific questions to ask the gc.</p>

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<p>I basically gave the Cliff Notes version of what you said in post 125, soozie.</p>

<p>In the realm of the purely secretarial, yes to photocopying and collating. And outside the realm of the purely secretarial, yes to brainstorming essay topics and strategizing resume structure. Yes to giving feedback on and proofreading drafts. </p>

<p>And yes, sometimes, to being the front man with the GC. Here, context matters.</p>

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<p>parent: make sure your son is not starting off each of his interactions with his gc with the question “my mom asked me to ask you…” I have a feeling mine likely has been.</p>

<p>EPTR: fully agree with you :). I do realize though that knowing DS as well as I do, that I tend to facilitate him preemptively. Unfortunately, I also think that if I didn’t, it won’t always lead to him learning to fill in himself, but rather go empty. Just the kind of kid he is. He does do his own laundry and change the oil, and he’s a cracker jack with ramen noodles if that counts. We have been discussing various areas of his life with him and then consciously turning over management to him. Haven’t gotten to the college app yet though.</p>

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<p>ihs…that is good advice. I have a student who constantly says “mom said…” in lots of our interaction. Even his first draft of an essay had mom mentioned throughout, and the essay was not about mom…or well, not supposedly (I’m having him do an entirely new essay). :D</p>

<p>Yes, moms, HELP behind the scenes. Don’t take over. Even advisors like me can tell when ya do. :slight_smile: Advise. Advise. Advise. Don’t DO it (or the parts the kid should be doing, I mean…). </p>

<p>I see it on the other end in my job.</p>

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<p>soozie: just passing on what someone else told me upboard. don’t want to plagiarize.</p>

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<p>lol ihs, hadnt thought of that. a see another text on the horizon!!</p>

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<p>lololol… Next time I see the GC who worked with my son, I will have to ask her how often son mentioned me when starting a conversation. However, I will guess it wasn’t often since he is a man and mostly likes to think of all things as his idea even when they certainly never entered his orbit before I mentioned it.</p>

<p>Son did not do laundry before heading off to school. However, I did teach him how to iron a dress shirt and pants. Laundry is a piece of cake as long as youre not color blind and never use bleach. (that stuff scares the crap out of me.) Ramen noodles… he can boil water in the microwave so that’s right up there as well as a peanut butter/jelly or honey sandwich. It ends about there only because he had a younger sister that believes the sun and moon rise with his every move and loved to cook, bake and pretty much do everything he asked of her.</p>

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<p>I don’t recall going over laundry until they were heading to college either. I did it up until then. I think I recall that D1 had to do it in summer programs prior to 11th and 12th though. </p>

<p>With D2…not sure how often she even does it (has been away from home for four years). She has now graduated college. There is a laundry mat across the street from her current apartment (since she graduated) and I asked her about doing her laundry and she told me…I pay them a small fee and they do it there! LOL…(she is supporting herself and so that’s her choice)</p>

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<p>laundry??? mine brings his home on breaks LOL. even though hs has washing machines/dryers. cook??? isnt that what starbucks, hungry howies, taco bell etc are for?? has a fridge in room so could nuke some things, but currently has it full of petri dishes for his science project…which according to him is why he isnt making any food. Balancing his bank account??.. i have checks and my debit card works that must mean i have money!!!</p>

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<p>yes, more mactessa! And, re: cover letters to rec writers, how do you begin such a letter so it’s clear that it’s meant to help the letter writer, not to push him/her around?</p>

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<p>way, way, way upthread, Oldfort made the best suggestions for being a team player with your GC. I thought that was helpful, though I can’t recall the # of the post.</p>

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<p>I’m in the middle of reviewing drafts of such letters at the moment for a student. These letters are so thorough and so specific and highlight a ton of things about this student, that a rec writer could not possibly NOT write an effective rec! </p>

<p>There is NOTHING pushy about these letters. Nobody is telling the rec writer what to do! Rec writers would WELCOME such letters as they HELP them to write the rec and provide many specifics about the student. The student also simply states that he/she is spotlighting some qualities and highlights about him/herself and that the rec writer can choose to use or ignore what he/she wishes, but they are trying to share things that may help them. And trust me, just the letters I am reading from this girl, which are stellar, WiLL help get fantastic recommendations and she provided many anecdotes and examples and qualities and highlights about herself in relation to her work with the rec writer. If I were a rec writer, I would LOVE to get all this from a student. The student is also enclosing an annotated resume that shows a great deal about herself as well. All my students do this. This particular student wrote some of the best cover letters I have seen to date. In fact, she had to write seven different ones given the types of degree programs she is seeking and needing certain recs for certain schools and other ones for other programs. Her work on preparing her rec packets should pay off (let alone she likely is well thought of by these rec writers already, but she gave them so many specifics which should help them). </p>

<p>There is much one can do to increase the odds of soliciting effective recommendations. It doesn’t always work, but it is worth a try. I know of one instance, where with one rec writer for one of my own kids, it was a waste of my kid’s effort who put a lot into preparing it and the rec writer gave a standard letter she had written for many students but subbed the name (she forgot to even change the name in a few places…my D’s name is NOT Jessica!!!) and never mentioned the major highlights that my kid had in that school in this person’s area (dept. chair) that were unique to my kid even. My D worked daily IN school and OUT of school with this person for five full years. This was in my D’s area of specialty for college too. As an optional rec, we got to see it and did not use it. So, even with my kid’s effort to give the rec writer information, that rec writer was lazy and had a form letter for recs. It was quite unbelievable to me. The other recs did indeed speak to the highlights my D hoped would be shared about her though.</p>

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<p>Coincidentally, for an entirely different purpose, I was going through some old emails from a couple years ago from an advisee’s mother. In reference to my helping her D to craft cover letters to each of her rec writers and GC, the mom commented:</p>

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<p>For what it is worth.</p>

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<p>OK, I’m going to see if I can get DS to write something up for his teachers. I don’t think the GC wants to hear from us anymore. This’ll be an adventure.</p>