IB vs. AP

Parents Forum
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<p>As a student who just finished IB, I’ve found most of my IB courses and exams to be more difficult then the AP counterparts excluding Math SL. For example, I felt well enough prepared through IB chem HL that I expected a 5 on AP chem off of no preparation (and I probably got a 5). I however only expect a 5/6 out of 7 on the IB test because it is much more in depth and complicated. History HL was harder than an AP. IB English is basically the same as any other English class except you have harder assessments for your IB grade. You can’t really make English harder arbitrarily. I took IB psych SL and while it didn’t cover as much as was on AP psych (I got a 5 on that), you were required to know the topic much better because the exam is pure essay. I also like the way the curriculum for psych is set up. </p>

<p>Anyway, the point of this post is for me to say that I though IB was more challenging and enriching then AP, and jve taken 8+ ap tests. College admissions wise, anyone not in IB at our school usually doesn’t end up going to any good out of state. Non IBers don’t really ever go past middle range state school level.</p>

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<p>I haven’t read the whole thread, so sorry if this has already been said.</p>

<p>I go to an AP/IB school. I have friends who go to full AP schools and friends who go to full IB schools. The quality of AP/IB programs really seems to depend on the teachers. So, you can’t really judge AP vs. IB overall, you have to look at the specific school. </p>

<p>The only big, fundamental difference between AP and IB that I see is that IB is much more strict with its sometimes arbitrary rules. For instance, freshman and sophomores cannot (officially) take any IB classes. This means that a sophomore who is ready to take calculus has to wait a year. AP is much more flexible; anyone can take a test, no matter what grade they’re in. It doesn’t even matter if your school offers the class or not, you can take the test without taking the class.</p>

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<p>Our D did the IB program and took AP exams as well. IB did prevent flexibility and electives at her school (for example, she could not take a second language, and there was some reason she could not take AP Psych–I think it was related to TOK). It has been a while, so I can’t really recall, but it did limit flexibility at her school. What parents should know in addition to all the facts shared in previous posts is that things can change once your child is in the program, and it does look bad to “drop” IB in Senior year. In our district, IB programs are put specifically in underperforming schools or Title 1 schools because they attract more involved students who are typically not behavior problems and higher performers on state standardized tests, which brings up the school’s scores. In D’s sophomore year, the district made a decision to go from a merit-based application and entry system (students must apply in 8th grade) to 60% placements based on merit, and 40% based on lottery, because the ethic composition of the IB programs across the district did not match the overall ethnic composition of the district. Thus, some students who were not eligible for the program based on academics were admitted to following classes, either because their parents insisted they apply or they wished to enter but had not obtained the grades/test scores to qualify. Many (but not all) of these students were not able to handle the rigor of the program, and did not finish it out, which then affected the stats for that IB program (as some have said, people question the integrity of schools who don’t have high IB retention rates and test rates).</p>

<p>All that being said, there was a LOT of homework and late nights for D (although she is a perfectionist), and she did extremely well on all her IB exams and was an AP scholar as well. In the end, however, she chose to attend a liberal arts college that did not really permit her to use any of the accumulated “credits” to waive any requirements, etc. The college’s attitude was that IB was wonderful preparation for college and would help her to be prepared for the rigor of their classes. It was a little disappointing to her.</p>

<p>I do agree that students need to find their own path and from all the colleges and universities we visited, all the admissions officers indicated IB and AP courses were viewed as comparable. </p>

<p>In view of the low admit rates to top schools, I doubt it matters much if a student takes LOTS of AP classes or an IB program. If you are comparing a few APs to IB, then IB may look better.</p>

<p>I guess what I would wonder is WHAT do people want out of IB vs AP, or is it all the same. I think that our expectations of what comes of it all need some reflection. Ultimately we want our children to learn well, become excited by learning, and become a productive member of society. There are many paths to that outcome, and not all of them involve IB or AP. What message are we sending to our kids by engaging in all this intense debate?</p>

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<p>Interesting to hear about your district’s decision to do IB at underperforming schools. It’s the opposite in our district, the IB program is at a top school (although the school is large and has a wide spread population). And a lottery system as well. That doesn’t sound good.</p>

<p>Yet another reason to check out how IB/AP functions at your school. Understand the basic differences. Then ask lots of questions. Find the path that works for your student.</p>

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<p>“In AP, one can load up with AP’s in one area where they’re good and completely avoid (or nearly so) areas they’re not. IB sort of requires one to be ‘good’ (whatever that means) in 6 different areas (or 5 of 6).”</p>

<p>Actually, IB also allows students to take classes only in the areas in which they’re good. Those are certificate candidates instead of full diploma candidates. However, a full IB diploma student isn’t equally ‘good’ across the board because a full diploma requires some courses at HL and some at SL. A top student might be able to take AP (or even a mix of HL if you like and AP) across the board. That would be more challenging but the student wouldn’t be a “full IB” student. </p>

<p>Turbo, you are right that we have no national curriculum and I think your last post really helps me understand your interest in the program. Perhaps I would feel the same way at your school. I think at my kids’ school, probably a good 20% of our public school class gets into top 20 universities or lacs. That’s probably a conservative estimate. There are several hundred grads and, every year, multiple kids go to every ivy. So the IB curriculum isn’t the kids’ <em>only</em> good choice but it’s billed as such and it eliminates the possibility of taking a lot of really interesting courses. </p>

<p>Mom2M, I’ve not heard of a dual diploma IB but I tried googling and it sounds like the only difference is that the IB classes are offered in more than one language. Our public school doesn’t offer that and that wouldn’t have really given my kids much of an advantage because they had already completed a dual language educational program but it does sound great for the right kid. I am a big advocate of bilingual education.</p>

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<p>From my experience, the IB program is hard and the classes are harder than AP, but the AP classes are easier and the exam is harder, while the IB exams are easier. </p>

<p>Sent from my PC36100 using CC</p>

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<p>Again, this all depends on your school. At our high school, except for foriegn language and math the SL classes are AP. The first year of the HL classes (except English) are AP. Math can be AP then SL (odd, but it happens), or AP then HL, or SL then AP. So you are taking AP across the spectrum, and then HL in 3 areas. For the full IB diploma. English is only offered HL, it’s a two year program. Students are prepared for and may choose to take the AP test if they want.</p>

<p>I get it, sometimes the IB programs works, sometimes AP works better for a particular student. Just don’t have the belief that because IB or AP works like XXXX in one situation or at one high school that it is the same everywhere. Especially with IB.</p>

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<p>Some schools do not allow this. They require students to be full IB diploma candidates or not participate in the program at all.</p>

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<p>OK, then that obviously explains my son’s 4 in HL Bio and 5 on the AP Bio. ;)</p>

<p>soccerguy,
Same S took an IB/AP cross-listed course as a soph. Could not apply it towards the IB, but he took the corresponding AP. </p>

<p>At S’s school, IB was full diploma or nothing – and the IB program was not in your neighborhood’s catchment area and you left the IB program, you were sent back to your local HS.</p>

<p>The only dual diploma program in IB I am familiar with is the bilingual one – one writes the Extended Essay in language #2 and goes through HL in that foreign language.</p>

<p>That said, my other S was a total math/CS guy and did not consider IB AT ALL. Was not sufficient for his needs, and there was another program that was a better fit. OTOH, when he chose a college, he realized that some of the things IB offered were valuable, and picked his school accordingly.</p>

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<p>At our high school, the IB students do much better in college admissions than the AP track (we’ve been keeping records). And they tend to do better at college (hard to keep records, but we are trying). But that doesn’t mean IB is for everyone.</p>

<p>Just wanted to pop in here with some anecdotal evidence of the opposite sort. SS’s school offers IB and AP. It’s a very large public school. None of the IB kids were admitted to an ivy or “big name” school (although to be fair, we don’t really know many applied and were denied - we know of several though). Three kids at the school with admits to “big name” schools (Harvard, MIT, Stanford) each took the AP curriculum.</p>

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<p>there is some underestimating of IB SL classes going on in this thread. But to be fair, it makes sense, because top colleges refuse to give credit for SL scores. Misguided, but IB hasn’t pushed to get that fixed.</p>

<p>I got a 4 on the AP Gov test 2 years after I took pre-IB gov… with no prep. So using my data, AP gov = pre-IB gov.</p>

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<p>AP Gov is relatively unique in that a very well informed political watcher can get a 5 without taking any sort of class so you’re example doesn’t prove much.</p>

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suzy – And some anecdotal evidence of just the opposite sort: There were 61 IB Diploma students in my D’s graduating class. Quite a few of them ended up at “Ivies and big name schools” including: Harvard, Yale, Cornell, Princeton, Stanford, Rice, University of Chicago, Wellesley, UC Berkeley, UC Davis, and Wesleyan.</p>

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<p>Would an IB program allow a student who is “good in everything” take every subject HL?</p>

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<p>I’m pretty sure that no more than 4 subjects can be HL.</p>

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<p>The IB Diploma gives the student the option of 3 or 4 HL classes. That being said, the student’s high school could allow the student to take additional HL classes, and then award additional certificates. Our D is doing this for an additional SL elective class. Great class, great teacher, took a while to get her to try it.</p>

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<p>AP gov is not a good example… I took the AP gov test with about a week of not very intense studying, and I got a 5, just because I follow the news.</p>

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<p>Y’all are depressing me. The reason my kids did IB is because the curriculum and mission of IHS appealed to us. The global perspective, the idea of world lit, world art, etc. My kids really enjoyed their teachers, many of whom are ex-Peace Corps types with a wide world view and a great calling for teaching (not all, of course, are that great). My daughter loved the Eurasian conference, TOK discussions (which get very spirited), and feels like her writing skills will serve her well. Will she get tons of college credit? I dunno. Kids in her school got into good colleges both from the IB track and the AP/Honors track. I hate thinking kids would only do it for the credits/exam scores/whatever. We’re doing it for the experience, and I’m happy we are.</p>

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<p>^^ We did too, and I also find it depressing that so many seem to find no value in either IB or AP unless it helps them either get into college or get college credit. I’m glad my D did IB, though, because it fired in her a love of learning. That’s worth more than a few college credits, as far as I’m concerned.</p>

<p>Her college is pretty much all small classes, and her very first semester, she said, “Mom, I can tell exactly who took ToK, because they’re the ones who know how to do a discussion.”</p>

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<p>IB was perfect for my D. She loves research and large writing projects, so IB really honed her skills. Also, the long-term planning served her very well. It wouldn’t be ideal for every kid, but many kids can really benefit from the structure of IB.</p>

<p>She got an entire year of credit, which was great because her interests are a little diverse if you don’t know where she’s going with it, and she is able to do a double major with two minors to meet her exact plans.</p>