<p>Why does it have such a high acceptance rate? I mean, if you apply ED, you have an almost 50% chance of getting in. Can anyone explain this? Oh, and if applying biology/biomedeng makes it competitive, then do most applicants just apply to some random major and switch once they're in? It truly is a paradox to me and I'd appreciate it if someone can shed some light on the subject.</p>
<p>Acceptance rate has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of education an institution can offer. JHU's ED applicant pool could be self-selecting meaning that only the absolute best students apply early decision. And it might be a difficult and tedious process to switch to biology/ biomed once you're in the school.</p>
<p>who said JHU was an amazing school for premeds?</p>
<p>Even for premeds, JHU is often not an applicant's first choice: many who apply there also apply to the ivys and similar schools, and tend to attend those schools if admitted to both. JHU knows this, and so can raise its yield rate considerably by admitting most of its class through ED, which is why the acceptance rate is higher.</p>
<p>Hopkins does have a rep for being great for premeds, though I have tended to disagree with this assesment for a couple reasons:</p>
<p>-Most importantly, they have an application screen in process to prevent weak students from even applying (granted this is probably limited to students who are not likely to get accepted anyway, but personally I feel it's the med school's job to decide this and not a committee interested in keeping its med school acceptance rate high)</p>
<p>-The premeds there are notoriously cutthroat and from what I gather there is a very high attrition rate even for a premed heavy school</p>
<p>-Hopkins is overall an excellent school, but should you decide to drop out of the premed track-as many do-there are better places for you to be as far as moving on to something else</p>
<p>i would never want to to go hopkins as premed for several reasons. the curriculum is difficult, the students are ridiculously cutthroat, and they filter their med school applicants (not everyone can get the "privilege" to apply from JHU because their committee won't give you a letter of rec).</p>
<p>of course if you like the school and aren't deterred by these negatives then go.</p>
<p>Wow. Where's the hopkins representation? Or do all hopkins kids agree with these various sentiments?</p>
<ul>
<li><p>I'd venture to argue that there is no substitute for a good education, which Hopkins can undoubtedly supply (unless someone would care to disagree with that).</p></li>
<li><p>Looking at some stats posted on mdapplicants.com (a site recommended by another CC poster), many of the Hopkins applicants had reasonably high GPAs and there was a consistent trend of above average MCAT scores. Even assuming that there is a some level of bias (since only accepted students would even post), the statistics presented on this site are still substantial. </p></li>
<li><p>As for the filtering that goes on at Hopkins, are there any firm statistics to show just how bad it is? Is there a cutoff number that is specified anywhere? Maybe they still let you apply as long as you meet the minimum requirements. What if it's like 1 out of every 5 applicants discarded (which is still better than the national med school matriculation rate)? Unless there's any firm evidence to the contrary, I simply refuse to view this filtering process as 'unfair'.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>Well the kids from Hopkins who are weeded out or are not allowed to apply aren't going to post on mdapplicants, are they? That's the point. Sure, the kids on mdapplicants look brilliant, but for each of them there could be 5 others who started off premed but won't be applying.</p>
<p>The filtering process in insanely unfair, both to applicants and to schools that don't filter. It may not always be a straight denial, but it could mean that people with approvals get glowing letters comparing them to Mother Theresa, while non-approvals get a form letter that basically just lists the accomplishments of the applicant...Some places it's more overt than that, like professors are ingrained in the culture and won't write letters for unapproved applicants, effectively ending all application attempts by the student.</p>
<p>Sure, if you're one of the people who earn the committee's approval, who the **** cares? You come out with a glowing letter, and obviously have proven your worth to a group that has a lot of experience with medical school admissions. But if you're that slightly marginal candidate? I mean, the way I look at it, is what about my application - I had an extremely solid MCAT score, but a gpa of only 3.49. I was super involved on campus, but had no research...would I have gotten the chance to apply if I had gone to JHU? Obviously I don't know the answer, but I know that I was good enough to gain acceptance at two medical schools on my first application cycle. </p>
<p>Turning that around even more, what about my friends who didn't get in the first try? I have plenty of friends who are now either first years or will be starting in the fall after one or two applications. One of them got in last year, and which was a shock to everyone (even the kid himself). As Philly said, medical schools should be the ones deciding NOT a group of individuals with a very different objective than the student...there is a huge conflict of interests when screening committees are in place.</p>
<p>BRM: If I remember correctly, JHU's cutoff is pretty low -- i.e. you'd have to be in the 2's before they'd start talking about screening.</p>
<p>"Where's the hopkins representation?"-because this question has been answered so many times already just use search fn on the hopkins' thread
In the end, like all other schools, there are conflicting data supporting both sides of opinions and you just have to look through those and decide for yourself. gl! also the cut off thing...o.O...all schools have weeding and there will always be weeding...eg: like why does duke have most of its med applicants as alumni, do they have a cutoff range also?
also i don;t quite really believe in grade deflation/inflation...like so many students claim stanford, the hyp, etc. have grade inflation and claim places like cornell, hopkins w/ deflation...but looking at the sat ranges and yield rate, academically speaking, the quality of the students academically in terms of sats are higher at these grade inflated schools o.O does it not just simply indicate that the students attending these grade inflated schools probably deserve the grades they are getting O.o</p>
<p>
[quote]
all schools have weeding and there will always be weeding...eg: like why does duke have most of its med applicants as alumni
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Duke's ratio is about 1:1.5. I believe that's pretty normal, especially in a country where the average kid takes three years off. And it's not a cutoff range, but the advisors may advise some students to take a year off if the application is worse. That's not weeding.</p>
<p>As it turns out, grade inflation/deflation is almost exactly the opposite of what everybody suspects. State schools give out much better grades to pre-law students once you control for future LSAT scores. It's Penn, Harvard, etc. that are deflated.</p>
<p>anyhow even w/ the weeding, looking at the end results, many students still made it pass the weeding...--> maybe the weeding should tighten up a bit o.O, too many acceptees compared w/ similar tier schools which don;t even weed</p>
<p>us news:
Graduate School
Percentage of graduates who pursue further study:
Immediately:49%
Within one year: N/A
Within five years: 74% </p>
<p>Fields in which graduates pursue further study: Master of Business Administration (MBA): 13%
Law school: 15%
Medical school: 22%
Engineering: 17%
Graduate arts and sciences programs: 34% </p>
<p>i'm so sorry about the misinfo regarding duke earlier, cheer duke!!!!!! =D
Also regarding what prospectivemd asked earlier regarding why hopkins is not as selective as should be expected, people will still go to the hyps unless bme even if they are premed...look at it this way, if you are 100% certain you are going med and majoring in bio and under the false assumption that jhu's premed track is the BEST in the world (there is no such thing as anything being the best), will you really still reject the hyps just to go to jhu?
no</p>
<p>Ok, sorry to resuscitate this thread, but I can stand as a Hopkins representative. Firstly, the "screening process" is a myth. Anyone interested in applying to medical school can apply, and the school won't stop that student. However, if the student has a 2.8, the recommendation council isn't going to write a great recommendation, because, frankly, this student is a crappy student. The weeding out takes place when the 1/3 of all the entering premeds decide that they aren't going to suck it up and take orgo.
Secondly, competition at Hopkins is given a great place on this board, while at Hopkins, it has no prevalence on campus. Every student is driven, but there is no cutthroatedness or subversiveness between the premedical students. This myth will never die, but it's been discussed often on these boards.
Thirdly, grade deflation is not as bad as some would lead you to believe. Sure, it's no Harvard meaning that 90% of all students don't graduate with honors, but it is not difficult to graduate with a 3.6+. If one is an intelligent premed, one should have no difficulty attaining at least a 3.7. And by no difficulty I mean, getting priorities straight and studying very, very hard. Studying harder than students at comparable schools for a comparable GPA. But, many students from Hopkins who go onto medical school end up at the top of their classes and in the best residencies. Look into it. Hopkins breeds some of the best medical students.
And, as per the OPs question, your logic is severely flawed. Selectivity does not imply quality. Look at University of Chicago. Like Chicago, Hopkins is self-selective, in that it's applicant pool is very specific as per that school. Schools like HYP get applicants who would have no chance at all for acceptance, but give it the old "What the heck" try. Students don't often do that for Hopkins or Chicago, but that's not to say no one does. </p>
<p>So, in the end, if you get above a 3.2, at Hopkins, you should be able to get into medical school. Last year, the average for Hopkins students admitted to medical school was a 3.3-3.4 as compared to the national average of 3.6. The recommendation committee is not out to screw a student or anything.
And you can't switch into BME. It's best just to apply to it.</p>
<p>"However, if the student has a 2.8, the recommendation council isn't going to write a great recommendation, because, frankly, this student is a crappy student."</p>
<p>This very thing is what is usually the practical application of the idea of screening; though I have still heard from people at hopkins that there is a point at which the committee will flat out refuse to write a letter, which is the same as preventing a student from applying. Furthermore, your assertion that frankly 'this student is a crappy student' is precisely the type of judgmental stance that is not in the purview of the committee to take. Many schools use their committee letter simply as a forum for introducing the student to those reviewing the application, rather than making a strong recommendation one way or the other. Some, however categorize their letters into categories such as 'strongly recommend' 'recommend' and 'do not recommend.' If you're told that you will get a letter in the latter category, you will be strongly discouraged from applying, as it will effectively kill your application, serving the same effect as a screen.</p>
<p>You people amaze me. As a current Hopkins senior it is funny to read all of this, it really is funny.</p>
<p>"The premeds there are notoriously cutthroat and from what I gather there is a very high attrition rate even for a premed heavy school"</p>
<p>That is really funny. Seriously it is. Have you ever been to Hopkins? I don't know a single student here that considers the school "cutthroat". Is it hard? Yes, but we get through it together, we work together, we don't steal others books are ruin labs.</p>
<p>I'll address the "filtering" after I throw you all a few surprising statistics. The average humanities GPA at Hopkins is a 3.51, the average engineering is a 3.35, the overall average is a 3.4 something. There is absolutely no grade deflation here, the average humanities student at Hopkins does graduate with honors here. This data comes from the transcript grade given out by the registrar's office, I cannot support it with a link. </p>
<p>With that being said, when the pre-med council refuses to write a positive letter of recommendation for a student with a sub 3.0 gpa they deserve it. They are the bottom of their class!! This isn't really filtering, its reality. When compared to their peers a student in the bottom 10% of their class should not get a positive review. I have heard of the committee recomending that the student don't apply because they won't get good recommendations but if a student wants to apply they don't deny them that.</p>
<p>If you come to Hopkins and succeed you will be setting yourself up for the future. The top 1/4 of the students here are consistently sent to top 10 schools in their programs whether it be law, engineering, humanities, med, etc. People who do well here do tremendously well in getting jobs and getting into grad school. Last year alone I know of engineering departments that got 6 students into Stanford, 2 into MIT, 1 at Caltech, and then 8 others to top 10 programs. I'd say Hopkins grads are doing alright for themselves considering the "high" acceptance rate.</p>
<p>spe07...shhh...keep some of the myths true, Think of the benefits =D when you grad you can brag and receive compliments on how you survived the cutthroat nature, filtering, and deflation...so shhh</p>
<p>Wow - this is a lot of flame about Hopkins. </p>
<p>FACT: JHU's admit rate is about 25%, or 1 in 4 students are offered admission.</p>
<p>FACT: JHU's SAT middle 50% is 1380-1530</p>
<p>FACT: JHU fills LESS than 40% of the class through ED. </p>
<p>FACT: The most popular major at JHU is International Studies</p>
<p>FACT: JHU Medical School placement is one of the best in ths country</p>
<p>
[quote]
With that being said, when the pre-med council refuses to write a positive letter of recommendation for a student with a sub 3.0 gpa they deserve it. They are the bottom of their class!! This isn't really filtering, its reality. When compared to their peers a student in the bottom 10% of their class should not get a positive review. .
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The issue is not about refusing to write a positive recommendation for somebody. The REAL issue is sticking somebody with a bad recommendation. Every candidate HAS to submit some sort of certification letter, if the school offers one. So if you don't provide a positive recommendation, then by definition, you are forcing him to submit a bad recommendation.</p>
<p>The truth of the matter is that some people do get into medical school with sub-3.0 GPA's. Granted, we're talking about low-ranked med-schools, and even so, the applicant will still probably not get in. But he MIGHT. It's a small chance, but still a chance. Hence, by sticking a student with a poor recommendation, you are reducing whatever (small) chance he might have had. </p>
<p>Surely we've all been told how uncouth it is to talk badly about people. If you can't say something good about somebody, then don't say anything at all. If the premed committee truly cannot, in good conscience, support a particular student, then fine, JHU should just give a form letter to that student to allow that student to check off the certification letter requirement, where that letter describes the curriculum of JHU in general, but makes no comments (and in particular, no bad comments) about that student. </p>
<p>Look at the situation from a comparative standpoint. A student might go to another school that doesn't write customized letters at all (hence, everybody gets form letters), or writes good rec's for everybody. That student might then get a sub-3.0 there, but still get into med-school. Again, that's because he doesn't have a premed committee trying to sink his chances by talking badly about him in a rec letter. Why should JHU try to sink its subpar candidates when other schools don't try to sink theirs? </p>
<p>To give you an example, take Berkeley. In 2003, of the 'one-year-out' premeds (hence, applied 1 year after they graduated), a few people got in despite having GPA's below 3.2. Heck, one person got in with a sub-2.8 GPA. Berkeley doesn't have a premed committee. Hence, everybody gets a neutral form letter. That policy evidently worked out well for that one guy who got in despite having a sub-2.8 GPA, because he didn't have some committee talking badly about him. </p>
<p>The upshot is that those "bad" JHU students might have been better off if they had never gone to JHU at all, but instead had gone to Berkeley or some other school. AT least then they wouldn't then be forced to submit bad rec letters. </p>
<p>I've always judged schools not by how its best students are doing, but how its WORST students are doing. If even the worst students are doing pretty well, then that's the mark of a highly desirable school. But here you have a situation where the worst students at JHU are getting tagged with bad recommendations. That's pretty medieval. If you can't say anything good about somebody, then don't say anything at all.</p>
<p>i'm just going to say...personally i think it feels better to know that w/ that letter you are in an population w/ 90%+ acceptance into a med school, also, sakky, no it is not necessary to have a committee submit a rec, but med schools will not like it if they know such a committee exists at your school and did not write you a rec, now after complimenting jhu...i must also try to flame it hehe =D, spe07, according to another current jhu student, there is no average gpa given in the registrar's office...however, it is possible that since this person is only a freshmen he has not yet requested a transcript...</p>
<p>
[quote]
personally i think it feels better to know that w/ that letter you are in an population w/ 90%+ acceptance into a med school,
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Of course! But how would you feel if you didn't get that letter? I take it that it wouldn't feel good. </p>
<p>
[quote]
but med schools will not like it if they know such a committee exists at your school and did not write you a rec,
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well, first off, I think you are presuming that med-schools have more information than they really do. The truth is, all organizations are boundedly rational and don't know about every single feature used by every single undergrad program out there, or even every prominent undergrad program out there. There are 125 med schools out there and something like 25 osteopathy schools. I strongly suspect that the lower-tier ones aren't really sure whether JHU has a premed committee or not. Heck, they may only get 1 JHU applicant every few years. For example, I strongly suspect that the University of South Alabama College of Medicine or Kirksville College of Osteopathic Medicine don't really know whether JHU has a premed committee or not. So if they were to get a standard form letter from JHU, they would probably just conclude that maybe JHU doesn't write personalized committee letters. Sure, if they were savvy, they could figure it out. But it's still a lot better than waving a red flag by deliberately forcing the student to submit a bad committee letter. </p>
<p>I think that's the heart of the problem. Look, the premeds at JHU who are doing poorly have enough problems. You shouldn't try to compound the problems by tagging them with a bad rec too. If the med-schools want to reject these candidates, that's their decision. But you shouldn't be talking badly about people.</p>