If parents pay for their children's college.....

Parents Forum
1

<p>1- I dicided I must post this after reading about a parent who "busted out laughing" after knowing what their EFC was.</p>

<p>2- I spent the first 19 years of my life out of the U.S. in a different cultur, so I may be bias or a bit extreme about this topic.</p>

<p>3- As children we all had our share of mistakes, but I'm mainly refering to those who are 18+ years of age.</p>

<p>4- I'm also refering to normal parents, those who chose to support their children all (or even a portion of) the way to and thru college, not those hateful, mad, deviant parents who buy drugs for their children or abuse them in any way.</p>

<p>If the parents commit to pay for their children's great education, room, food...etc why they (the parents) still worry about their "retirement". I mean: what is the use of a child who doesn't embrace his/her parents after the child gets his/her degree and starts working??</p>

<p>I start thinking about this and it's already overwhelming: one would think that children would be sane (not even thankful) enough to at least help their parents out if not completely do every thing for them. And do it sincerely with respect and honor to the parents treating them as king/queen of the house.</p>

<p>I know there's much to it than this, and it branches into many other social complications (parents desire independency, children must support their own new family, nature of career-life,...etc), but, speaking for myself, I would feel genuinly uppset if my mother wouldn't allow me to clip her toe-nails for her, or my father didn't like the idea of me paying for their bills or groceries. and I would be GENUINLY thankful for just allowing me to do those things for them.</p>

<p>Many parents think that it would be an excessive burden for their children because many sons and doughters in America fail to hide their discontentment when having to do something for their retired parent. Also many Ss/Ds make their support to their parents worthless by reproach and injury ((Kind words and the covering of faults are better than gift followed by injury.))</p>

<p>and...huh.. my simple english has always made it difficult for me to get the point across clearly with fewer sentences, but here it is in a sarcastic capitalistic scarface approach:</p>

<p>Parents invest in children, children must payback, period.</p>

<hr>

<p>Oh... One thing none of us will ever be able to 'reimburse' his/her parents for: They were the reason for our existence, and the pain mothers tolerated at our birth is said to be second to death.</p>

2

<p>
[quote]
If the parents commit to pay for their children's great education, room, food...etc why they (the parents) still worry about their "retirement". I mean: what is the use of a child who doesn't embrace his/her parents after the child gets his/her degree and starts working?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I have been exposed to a similar cultural point of view. I know of a FEW born-in-America, many-generations-American families who think that way, but I see that kind of thinking much more in other countries. I think like that: I save NOTHING for retirement, but spend every last cent I have on my children's education. I don't know how long I'll survive, but I most definitely tell all of my children repeatedly that they should be sure to look after their mother if I am gone.</p>

3

<p>What if your child dies before you and you didn't save anything for retirement. You'd be be pretty screwed. Or your child was unable to support you, even with a degree (starving artist, anyone?). There are lots of things that can happen, and it would be kind of risky to assume that you won't have to take care of yourself in your old age.</p>

4

<p>As long I am able-bodied, I can work for my own living. My children, who as minors don't have all the economic opportunities of adults, need my help today. I can help myself for a long time after they grow up.</p>

5

<p>Oh yeah, I'm just saying in response to the OP, it's a nice idea that your kids will take care of you, and I would never shrink from doing just about anything for my parents, but the truth is that it may not be a possibility.</p>

6

<p>tokenadult, I'm very interested in knowing what 'type' of American families who think this way?</p>

<p>RaboKarabekian, human always have the disadvantage of not knowing what the future holds, but I was mainly refering to the children's obligation toward their parents. You have a valid point though, it would be risky.</p>

7

<p>Children don't ask to be born- while parents certainly may have children so they supposedly have someone to take care for them, I don't believe that taking care of someone for the first 10 -17 years of their life, warrants the debt being reversed for the next 70 years.
additionally, when parents are not prepared financially, emotionally or physically to raise children, their children are not necessarily going to be well equipped/motivated to then turn around and care for those parents.</p>

<p>If the parents don't plan for their own illness and retirement, I do not think that it is the childrens job to assume that responsibility.</p>

8

<p>Children don't ask for their parents to pay for college, either. I guess it depends on what social circles you frequent as to whether or not it is "expected", but I never thought of EFC as "they money my parents are obviously going to pay", more like "the amount of loans I'm going to have to take out". The money my parents had for my college actually came from an inheritance, and if my aunt hadn't died and left her house and everything, I don't think my parents would have had much more than a couple thousand dollars to contribute. I certainly wouldn't have expected them to have a big yard sale and live off ramen or whatever to meet the EFC every year...I'm an adult and it's my decision to go to school where I chose, and my responsibility to deal with the pricetag of that decision.</p>

<p>The OP will probably call me horribly selfish and ungrateful or something, but I do not want my future life to be limited by the responsibility of taking care of my parents because they chose to be able to not provide for themselves. We sort of have to do this with my grandmother now....my parents are stuck in dead-end jobs in a dead-end town because my grandmother refuses to move out of the house she can't maintain anymore and they have to stick around and take care of her. I do not plan to live in the same geographic area as my parents and I do not want to be bitter about having to be 'stuck' for 10 years of my life because they expect me to 'repay' them for things I never asked for....in addition to the 20-some years I already spent under their rule in a place I hated.</p>

9

<p>Some things to consider:</p>

<p>1) Many parents of my generation deferred having children until they were older and established in their careers, which means that they are nearing retirement when their children are still quite young. If I retired at age 65, my kids would be in their early 30's -- presumably just beginning to raise their own families, and hardly in a position to assume the burden of my care. In fact, if either of them goes to grad school, then I think they may still be paying off their own educational loans at that age. </p>

<p>2). People are living longer than ever -- I have an uncle who lived to be 102 - if I were to retire at age 65, it's not unreasonable to assume that I might well live another 30 years..... that's a long time for my offspring to be responsible for me -- certainly a lot longer than the 20-22 years of support that I gave them. </p>

<p>3) I do think that kids should give back when needed, but I am grateful that I do not have to be burdened with the care of my own father right now, and I think that ideally I should do my best to provided for myself to make sure I will not be a burden on my kids. It's one thing for the kids to be there to help out in a crisis, quite another to set things up so that they will have to help out no matter what. Who knows what other problems they may run into during their lives? </p>

<p>Finally, re the statement the pain mothers tolerated at our birth is said to be second to death. ... er, no. I had quite a difficult and painful labor with my firstborn.... but I don't think it was nearly that bad. And if the pain of childbirth had anything to do with what kids owe their parents, then my younger child would be free to completely ignore me, because that she came very fast and by the time I even realized I was in pain, it was all over. (So if your own mom has been lording that one over you -- well, maybe she had a particularly difficult childbirth... but more likely she's exaggerating. I mean... it isn't easy, but it is bearable enough that we moms go right ahead and keep having children).</p>

10

<p>The government picks up many expenses if the kids don't - gotta get something for our tax dollars!</p>

11

<p>The kids do pay, but they pay forward rather than paying back. They, too, will have kids that will need to educated.</p>

<p>And the cost by then will be..... incalculable.</p>

12

<p>"If the parents commit to pay for their children's great education, room, food...etc why they (the parents) still worry about their "retirement". I mean: what is the use of a child who doesn't embrace his/her parents after the child gets his/her degree and starts working??"</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Independence of adults is highly valued in American culture and most older people in this country would be horrified at having to be supported by their children. Seniors in this country don't want to be what they consider a burden to their kids.</p></li>
<li><p>There is no guarantee that an adult child would have the means to take care of their parents. This could be true even if the adult child trained for a lucrative career. I know middle aged adults with debilitating illnesses or spouses or children with illnesses that are costing them a lot of money. There also are children who die before their parents or who -- due to catastropic problems (Hurricaine Katrina is one example) end up having to rely on their parents financially.</p></li>
<li><p>There also are adult children who despite being lovingly raised turn their backs on their parents and literally abandon them.Some have drug habits, some are simply selfish.</p></li>
<li><p>Many seniors don't want to be supported by their kids because they want to make decisions about their own lifestyles in old age. Having their own funds to support themselves in old age means that they -- not their kids -- choose things like where they get to live. Just as parents who are paying for kdis college education get to call lots of the shots about price, location, etc., the same goes for kids paying for their parents care in old age. Most U.S.-born Americans do not want to live with their kids in their old age. Seniors want to have their own lives, and not feel constrained by or indebted to their kids, so they want to live independently or in a nice retirement home or community.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Having worked as a counselor in a college counseling center, I have heard concerns of college students who came from or whose parents came from countries where it was expected that they would eventually take care of their parents when their parents became old. The students had become used to American culture, and didn't want to be financially responsible for their parents in their parents' old age. I suspect that some of the immigrant parents who are paying for their kids' college, but not putting money aside for retirement, will have some unpleasant surprises when they become old.</p>

<p>As the old Billie Holliday song goes, " Them that got, shall get. Those that don't shall lose."</p>

13

<p>"Many parents of my generation deferred having children until they were older and established in their careers, which means that they are nearing retirement when their children are still quite young. "</p>

<p>Very true. I'm 55, H is 57. Our sons are 22 (a brilliant guy, who flunked out of college and now barely gets by financially) and 18. If we retire at 65, at best, our kids would still be basically at the beginning of their careers, and probably would also be raising their families.</p>

<p>My own parents were 36 and 44 when I, their first child, was born. My parents retired when I was in grad school. My father also had strokes while I was in grad school. My other sibling has mental health problems, and was dependant on my parents even when he was in his 30s. If my parents had depended on their kids for financial support in their retirement, they would not have been able to get much.</p>

<p>Even if I had chosen to move back home to help, it would have been difficult because they lived in a rust belt area with few jobs. If they had moved in with me, there would have been a major space problem as I was living in the kind of rental place that grad students can afford. </p>

<p>In thinking about this, I realize that just as immigrant parents have had to adapt to a new system when it comes to preparing their kids for college, the same will go for preparing themselves for retirement. Just as top American colleges don't choose students strictly by test scores the way that many top universities abroad do, American parents don't rely only on their kids for their retirement. Ways of living that work well on one culture may put one at risk in another.</p>

14

<p>M, I view this differently. </p>

<ol>
<li><p>It is my responsibility to provide for my child an education that positions her to be self-sufficient in a global economy. Today, that means at minimum an undergraduate degree, and post-graduate education if possible and if the business case for career intentions make sense. This is as serious a responsibility as providing food, shelter, clothing, medical care, spiritual/religious education, moral and ethical framework, safety and security, psychological well being, physical fitness, etc. Actually, it might be a greater responsibility than some areas - one can survive with second hand clothing, or old clothing if the budget needs to be cut to pay for school. </p></li>
<li><p>It is my responsibility to provide for my own retirement and elderly care. I seriously don't want my child's money. I want her to pay for her own children, retirement, grandchildren, etc. </p></li>
<li><p>In my case, and probably in many cases, the child "earns" most of their own educational funding. Consider this: completing the fifth and final year of undergrad at a total (gross) cost of attendance of $41,000 * 5 = $205,000; merit and athletic scholarships paid for nearly $180,000. This is money that would not have been available had she not earned, and RETAINED it through classroom and sports performance. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>Since I paid the net $25,000, I'm sorta wondering who owes who - lol...</p>

15

<p>I don't think the prevailing cultural attitude in America is that children shouldn't take care of their parents in their old age - it's merely that parents are more comfortable setting their own standards of living.</p>

<p>At the beginning of my career, I'll barely be able to support myself, much less my parents, especially considering they are used to spending lots. As retired seniors, they'll still want to buy new cars, farm equipment, and of course will have a huge mortgage to pay. They want to be self-reliant, to choose where they will live and how they will live, without worrying about whether /my/ career will take off. </p>

<p>That said, I don't think they would be horrified or reluctant to accept my money or my help should I become successful - on the contrary, they expect I'll pitch in...but not that I'll become /their/ parents. I don't think they want or need another set!</p>

16

<p>In the US, the parents are responsible for college. Even as the colleges lament the involvement of the parents, there is not a peep about making it a student responsibility financially. Though you can vote, join the military, and be considered an adult for nearly everything (except drinking) at age 18, independence for college aid does not come until the student reaches age 24. Providing a college education comes down to the same principles a parent uses in providing many other things for their children. Where did they go for their pre college education, where is the family living, what extracurriculars are encouraged and supported . The choice of a college is an extension of these parenting decisions. In the US it seems to me that we have more choices than kids in most of the world has, in terms of where the kids end up in college or other post secondary school outcomes. We have so many more colleges than other countries. I believe more parents remain involved in their kids education for a longer time here than elsewhere. In Europe, there seems to be a more preset path for the kids, and not as many choices. Going to a traditional college is not necessarily the best choice for some kids. There are kids who are just done with academics, at least temporarily, after highschool, and parents with those kids need to find avenues other than college where the kids can best become a self suffficent adult.</p>

<p>Most of us here want our independence. I think our culture values freedom and choices greatly. To become dependent on anyone, including ones' children is not something most Americans want. And this push for self sufficiency extends to old age. We are also giving our children more freedom and more choices by not becoming dependent parents in our old age. This is a gift we want to give to our children and ourselves. </p>

<p>I am at the age now where many of my peers are having to intervene in their parents lives for a number of reasons. Health issues, financial issues, competency issues are arising. Many of our parents need our help, even those who were so independent and giving to us. Many of us who see the loss of independence and dearth of options of our own parents definitely do not want to be in this situation upon our old age. </p>

<p>It is also quite a gift to our children, to not NEED their care.</p>

17

<p>You have a lot of great replies already. </p>

<p>About parents having children later in life, I just have to say that my parents are talking about retirement now (my father's in his late sixties). I'm in my first year in college and just turned 18. In this case, we would be supporting each other!</p>

18

<p>In our society, I think that many of us believe that we take the financial gifts our parents gave us and then pass it on to our children, not back to them.</p>

<p>In a different age, supporting one's parents meant keeping them in the house until pneumonia got them at age 60. It is a different world out there now, and I, admittedly selfishly, cannot imagine having my mother in my house for the next 30 years (my family routinely lives to 100) nor supporting her financially in a care situation.</p>

<p>And I am saving my money so that I don't become a burden to my children as well.</p>

19

<p>
[quote]
In our society, I think that many of us believe that we take the financial gifts our parents gave us and then pass it on to our children, not back to them.

[/quote]
I think this is a great point. I definitely see this attitude.</p>

20

<p>How to deal with this? My son will be graduating in June and is applying to schools whose total cost is 45K. Only one would be about 30K. I have given him some forms to fill out for potential scholarships (one from my employer and one from my life insurance company). They aren't really involved forms, yet he is totally disinterested in even applying for them. All the $$ he made last year was spent on clothes (who really needs 17 pairs of shorts and 13 polo shirts just to name a small portion of his stuff). </p>

<p>I haven't gotten my EFC yet, but I'm prepared to pony up about 7-10K per year for all his expenses (and I'm including things like his cell phone). I have told him I will NOT take out any loans to pay his way. I don't like his attitude towards money so I don't want to keep throwing him more to **** away. And I never received a dime of support from his father and I'm solely responsible for my current and future bills.</p>

<p>Are schools really going to lend this kid 30K+ a year for 4 years???</p>