<p>If those are truly the numbers, I'll stand corrected. But in a rare instance, I'd have to agree with Alex here. I seriously doubt that Brown's avg in 1966 was 1350. The round number avgs seem suspicious. That would mean after it became a much more popular, respected school that Brown's SAT avg dropped 50-60 points, but during the same time period Harvard's SATs stayed flat? That doesn't seem plausible. Also, why do so many make the comment that Brown wasn't respected academically as compared to say Dartmouth or Cornell if its SAT avg was so much higher? </p>
<p>Those were some interesting articles, thanks. I've always wondered if my Dad's and my SATs were on a comparable basis or not. Although, even with this information, I'm not sure if I have an answer.</p>
<p>Those are numbers are straight out of Collegehelp's Cass & Birnbaum college guide.</p>
<p>There are articles explaining two important, but distinct historical notes with regards to historical SAT numbers (please take time to read the links provided if you have not already done so):</p>
<p>1) That there was a general trend downward for avg. SAT numbers from 1960 to the 70s and 80s.</p>
<p>2) SAT numbers were "normalized" post-1996 - pls see the link and chart provided in post #747</p>
<p>3) You asked for data, I gave you admissions data. Then you said, "well, if I see SAT info, then I'll be convinced" -> I provide SAT data. Now you're like well, "if so many people..." - obviously your BIAS is your BIAS - I can't help you with that, I'm afraid - but please, don't try and pass off your bias as FACT, that is all i was saying - nothing more, nothing less.</p>
<p>4) Finally, it's not MY JOB to explain SAT historical trends to you or to Alex. I provided data -> if you don't believe it -> PROVE ME WRONG.</p>
<p>5) I'll take your "I'll stand corrected" as you backing off of your claim that Colgate was superior to Brown.</p>
<p>I'm just saying that reported SATs in those books aren't always correct. The 1988 USNWR guide had Cornell at 1375, Harvard at 1370, Colgate at 1360, Dartmouth at 1306 and Brown at 1300. Even though I seriously doubted at the time even the Cornell and Colgate figures were accurate, it still didn't change the fact that's what the guide reported. I'm not trying to say that Colgate was a better school than Brown in 1988 because of what USNWR reported because I doubt they are accurate figures. I don't recall at any point in this thread disputing the historical SAT trends or how that's even relevant to the discussion.</p>
<p>I guess in the end I don't really care how much (if any) Brown was considered better than Colgate historically versus now. My only intent at the outset was to say not to assume that because something is currently a certain way means that it has always been that way.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I guess in the end I don't really care how much (if any) Brown was considered better than Colgate historically versus now. My only intent at the outset was to say not to assume that because something is currently a certain way means that it has always been that way.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No, you stated with almost factual certainty that Colgate was academically superior to Brown up until the 70s (subsequently backing this up with anecdotal evidence and absolutely no hard data, facts, evidence ... you want anecdotal evidence? My grandfather has heard of Brown but has never heard of Colgate - but SO freakin what??? What the heck does that prove? I'm not gonna say Brown is better than Colgate based on that!).</p>
<p>And so I challenged your assertion about Colgate. You then asked for data (specifically SATs). I obliged and provided data to the contrary. And now there is a lot of back peddling (gee, I don't know - this doesn't seem right) and excuses like "well, you know, SAT info isn't always correct".</p>
<p>Give me a break. You made a bold and broad statement with nothing to back it up -> I called you on it. Funny how you went from absolute certainty -> "the same ballpark" -> now to indifference.</p>
<p>Now, I'm not done discussing it because you're making it a personal attack. Obviously, there is no hard and fast what is a better school than what since much of it is subjective and based on specific personal preferences anyway. Besides, hearing of a school doesn't make it better. How many people have heard of Dartmouth or Williams vs Notre Dame or Penn State. You can ignore my last sentence all you want, but it does not change the fact that I wasn't attempting to state anything with facual certainty, but merely to point out based on my observed experience the relative improvement of Brown over the years and its relation to the formation of the Ivy League. If you went to Brown or have a child who does, then I apologize for offending your image.</p>
<p>gellino, when did i make a personal attack?</p>
<p>look, if you were offended by my last post, i sincerely apologize. btw, i am a Princeton grad (though i know plenty of people who went to Brown).</p>
<p>I believe that the Ivy League is considering NYU, but before that happens NYU needs to add on a facility, because without it they aren't within Ivy League terms.</p>
<p>I don't know how high it is on their "list," but I am very sure that NYU is being considered, or that they are considering joining the Ivy League, as I have gathered from various sources. They are also considered by Kaplan to be one of the "New Ivies."</p>
<p>Whatever the case, being a member of the Ivy League has its disadvantages as well. Even though an Ivy League school may have the reputation of being more prestigious, costs of Ivy League schools are usually very high. So if NYU, which is expensive enough as it is already, were to become part of the Ivy League, then costs may sky-rocket, which would suck major balls.</p>
<p>NYU's tuition is identical to those of the Ivy League...but cost of liing is actually higher. Is it any wonder that the average NYU student graduates with $30,000 worth of debt?</p>
<p>NYU? Why not Rice...or Notre Dame... or Georgetown... or Duke... or Tufts...or Stanford... or MIT... or Northwestern... or Chicago... or Vanderbilt,... or WUSTL... or Johns Hopkins... or Emory.. or USC?</p>