IGETC Dilemma

Well, @lindyk8, I don’t think it is actually messed up. Probably just my explanation. I have no vested interest here, but now I kind of feel like I need to clarify. Here is what @psychky posted in post #7:

The link suggests that English I can be satisfied by a ‘3’ or higher on the AP Lang & Comp or the Lit & Comp AP test. It also suggests that English II can be satisfied by a ‘3’ or higher on the AP Lit & Comp test. this is different than several years ago, when the same was true for Eng I, but Eng II required a ‘5’ on the Lit & Comp. So @psychky is OK with his AP’s.

OP apparently did not have a ‘3’ on his Lit & Comp AP test (or did not take it). He is OK with his AP Lang & Comp test satisfying the Eng I requirement. He went to UC freshman year. Then he went to CC for Sophomore year.

The question for the OP is whether the courses he took at UC freshman year will satisfy a different UC, or if he needs to re-take Eng II to complete IGETC certification. His CC will not certify IGETC, in general, for ANY UC or CSU, based on a non-CC course (since it is not in the legally-certified articulation agreement between the systems as a whole). Therefore, the OP should check with his target school.

I am sure he will have no problem.

@lindyk8, perhaps it is not clear. there are 2 AP English courses.

Typically AP English Language and Composition is taken in 11th grade.
typically AP English Literature and Composition is taken in 12th grade.

Ok, so I’m kind of thinking it’s what I originally thought. And possible taking an additional course if not resolved.

Earlier you said the CCC determined OP’s AP score of 3 fulfilled English II, but it was Eng 1, you said later. This is what was partly throwing me. I assume a typo?

Regardless, something this complicated needs to be definitively resolved by the UC, and the sooner the better. And I stick to my belief, no assumptions. But that’s just me.

And I’m just now rereading all this. How can you not think it’s complicated @ItsJustSchool‌?
:)) :)) :))

This is an unusual and interesting topic for future readers and I find so much before so confusing (including my own posts), I’ve decided to narrow it down to what I think are the bare bone essentials. Please correct if wrong.

  1. OP fulfilled first part of English two-course requirement with AP exam.
  2. OP took a writing course at a UC during freshman year before transferring to a CCC. OP assumed it fulfilled second Eng requirement, but it is unclear as UC will not give a definitive answer and some earlier feedback to OP has suggested otherwise.
  3. What are ramifications if the UC course is not approved: A. Some suggest OP will get partial IGETC. B. Some suggest OP might not get in as both English courses are required at the very minimum, even if no breadth is taken.
  4. A poster called the UC and was told the UC simply wants to see IGETC complete. A. The UC rep suggests the OP's CCC has the discretion to sign off on full IGETC, even with the missing English course. B. Some suggest that cannot be done by the CCC as the English course in question is from a UC.

I believe this is current status.

Background: the Intersegmental General Education Transfer Curriculum (IGETC) is a formal agreement between California Community Colleges and UC (and CSU). It is a formal articulation agreement, worked out at an administrative level between the entities. This legal agreement governs a specific set of courses taken at CCs which, when taken together, satisfy (by DEFINITION of the agreement) the breadth requirements for the UCs. There is nothing in the agreement that defines backward compatibility (UC to CC).

The determination of satisfaction of courses is at the CC level. If the course is deemed satisfied by the CC, they are the ones to Certify IGETC. It involves a course audit and an endorsement by the CC registrar on the transcript. If you are one or two courses short, you can still transfer with partial IGETC satisfaction.

While UC will give general elective credit for AP courses, CC’s will allow AP’s to be used for IGETC course credit, thereby satisfying breadth requirements.

There are two language arts AP courses: English Language and Composition & English Literature Composition. The Eng I requirement of IGETC can be satisfied by a 3 or higher on either AP exam. It used to be that the Eng II could be satisfied with a 5 on the ‘Lit’ AP exam; apparently it is now satisfied with a score of 3 or higher on the ‘Lit’ (but NOT the ‘Lang’) AP exam.

So, @lindyk8,

1.) True
2.) OP took 2 writing courses at a quarter-system UC to satisfy this requirement his freshman year. His sophomore year, he attended Community College. If he transfers from the Community College to semester-system UC Berkeley, he is unsure whether the courses will satisfy the requirement. In general, they do not satisfy IGETC, since they are not specifically identified in the formal articulation agreement that defines IGETC.
3.) UC Berkeley will want him to satisfy the requirement, but IGETC will not be satisfied (just partial IGETC).
4.) A.) UC said that IGETC certification is in the responsibility of the CC, and that they have requirements they must certify are met. One of those is AP- Course equivalence. Therefore, AP scores can be used to get credit for courses. The CC, not UC, must make the determination in accordance with their written policies. I don’t think anyone suggested the CC has discretion to sign off on OP’s IGETC if it is outside of their requirements.

Every time you write something I don’t know what you’re talking about. lol. I have no idea what that last statement was saying. Anyhow, let’s not make this so complicated.

The OP has to find out how this is corrected: (1) either through the CCC however that is done, leaving out semantics, or (2) through the UC, again however that might be done, leaving out semantics.
If 1 or 2 is not viable, then OP decides whether to take an alternate course or take his/her chances.

No one on this site can say with 100% certainty what the outcome is in this case. It needs to be sorted out somewhere else, and without going into semantics, it’s either somehow through the CCC or the UC…

Agreed. And basically, the best course is #2. OP needs to call each UC s/he applied to and be sure of an answer so s/he can take the appropriate classes this semester (or make plans for the summer/fall 2015).

Thank you to everyone who responded, I’ve been thinking it for a while, and I think I will just do it, take the last writing course I need. I mean, it’s literally just one more course, and I won’t have the anxiety/worry of the next few months (other than turning in essays, but that’s an entirely different worry than worrying about admissions).

It might have been a different story if I had 2 or 3 more classes in the same situation, which would make it impossible for me to try to “bite my tongue,” but the fact that it worked out to just 1 class left is a sign I think. I just have to pull through one more semester…

On the bright side, I won’t have the constant worry of not getting an A (doesn’t mean I’ll won’t aim for good grades)

I guess that’s settled then :W

Suit yourself. A phone call is a whole lot less work, though. 5 - 15 minutes.

@ItsJustSchool I’m pretty sure the answer will be the same answers I’ve been getting from the many people I’ve asked this to. Also, I didn’t mention this, but way earlier (like in September) when I met with different UC reps, I asked about this very situation (maybe not framed the exact way I wrote in the first post, but essentially the same questions about UC to CC to UC and breadth) and in short they said that “it’s up to your CC to certify your IGETC.”

I said earlier that they said it’s against their [my CC’s] policy to certify you in advance without actually notifying schools. Basically the process is you have to “guess” what you need (which is easily doable with the college’s online IGETC planner, or even meeting with a counselor to academically plan). But that’s only for CC pure-bloods, I’m a half-blood so it’s a lot more muddled than being able to check things off with guarantee. The general consensus among my CC counselors was that it’s not 100% guarantee and I think that is enough to just take the course.