<p>Prefontaine - What you said (with me putting some of your words in caps): Eating clubs SPONSOR trips ... that require large sums of cash. </p>
<p>Wait, so they provide the opportunity to go on trips at reduced costs. That's bad, how? </p>
<p>The residential colleges sponsor theatre and music trips. If you're wanting a community of many interests,you don't seem to be appreciative what the opportunity to cater to those interests is given.</p>
<p>The trips are not expensive (and they are much less frequent with eating clubs, they are actually pretty rare). The cost of these trips are subsidized by the eating club to an affordable amount and if you need financial aid it is available. </p>
<p>Have you ever stayed over night at Harvard? Do you talk to friends there? I know everyone has different experiences, but I've stayed over night for 3 nights before and it was definitely not that exciting. This was from my own experience, however, since it seems to agree with many students there and many reviews, it seems to be the common feel that visiting students/resident students get wheen they are there</p>
<p>And I don't intend to join, Mea. Here was my point, sorry for the lack of clarity. I would prefer to attend a school with students who didn't practice such slovenly debauchery each thursday and saturday night. (Only leaving out fridays because saturdays are game days for athletic teams) I'd rather go somewhere with intellectual enthusiasm and with students whose fervor for dickens surpasses that of jack daniels.</p>
<p>Playfair- I read that. I didn't see in it a response at all. I'll show you line by line: </p>
<p>It is probably a "big deal" to prospective students because a lot of people turn down Princeton specifically because of the eating clubs. [read what I wrote in the copy and paste]</p>
<p>Or maybe because the people who transfer out of Princeton sometimes do so for the same reason. [hardly any do. you have no proof that they're fleeing from eating clubs.]</p>
<p>Bottom line is, most people think that the clubs create a very different social environment than Harvard, Yale or other top schools. I don't think it's fair to say that one is "better" than the other, but there are legitimate differences. </p>
<p>[This, we agreed on early on. I warned that attempts to paint eating clubs in a negative light are more often exaggerations (see Prefontaine's posts) than the simple fact that they are a popular option.]</p>
<p>Furthermore, as I've said before, to compare the Eating Clubs with "senior societies" or "finals clubs" is simply misguided, or perhaps an attempt to cover up one of the less-than-ideal aspects of Princeton's social life.
[a) You assert that eating clubs are a negative aspect, exactly contradicting all you said before about only pointing out 'differences' instead of judging them as 'better or worse'. b) You say they're not comparable because few are in H and Y's clubs. Read what I copied-and-pasted]</p>
<p>By elite, I mean there is a high barrier to entry for the middle class student. There remains a culture that is quite regressive and Princeton seems to be proud of its storied pedigree. Along with extravagant trips, beer and other accessories are rather pricey to members.</p>
<p>PREFONTAINE:</p>
<p>"However, when a large portion of time is spent drinking obsessively and being 'social' there is little time left for theory, aiding the community, winning games, solving theorems. That's my only qualm with the system, along with the fact that while the clubs do offer financial support the support is minimal at most." </p>
<p>whether you realize it or not, a large portion of time at ANY school is spent drinking obsessively and being social. at issue here is WHERE that drinking and socializing occurs: all-male final clubs, secret societies, single-sex fraternities and sororities, co-ed eating clubs, or elsewhere. wherever you go, you can of course avoid the drinking and socializing, but if you skip the latter, you'll be missing out on a lot. and let me tell you, there's plenty of time left after these activities for theory, etc. most of the top schools pride themselves on espousing a work-hard, play-hard mindset. theoreticians drink beer and community activists pump their fists to "livin on a prayer," you know.</p>
<p>also, the university offers financial aid to meet the additional costs of club membership (relative to underclass board plans). all you have to do is ask. and remember, the aid comes in the form of grants, not loans if you need it.</p>
<p>"Eating clubs sponsor trips to other cities that require large sums of cash."</p>
<p>not terribly often. and most of the trips are fairly close, e.g. new york, philadelphia, six flags, medieval times. the residential colleges do most of the trip-sponsoring, and "sponsoring" of course means that they pick up all or most of the tab. you might, for example, take a bus to new york and see rent on broadway (a $75 ticket) for $20 total.</p>
<p>Umm, I would hardly call these trips extravagant. Princeton is the first school to eliminate loans. It is named the most affordable college. These trips to NYC for residential colleges cost 20 bucks. Eating clubs are not much more. Howre these extravagant and by any way elite? If you are complaining that a middle class student cannot afford a 20 dollar trip to NYC once every few months...then I dont know what to say. You can always apply for financial aid which Princeton is known to be generous with. </p>
<p>If you want elite I can tell you elite. This is NO WHERE near elite. In my opinion it is quite affordable and inclludes everyone.</p>
<p>These are no exagerrations. At receptions, students profess their admiration for these groups at the expense of more academic topics. Shrek, social is all a matter of perspective. I guess you are just too much "off-the-chain" for those kids. Maybe you can show them your crunkness in college, thatll get them bigtime. You can spout Harvard sucks in your drunken stupor. Go get em.</p>
<p>Prefontaine - Yes, you made it clear you didn't intend to join. I agreed that if you didn't like them, you shouldn't join them. </p>
<p>"I would prefer to attend a school with students who didn't practice such slovenly debauchery each thursday and saturday night. (Only leaving out fridays because saturdays are game days for athletic teams) I'd rather go somewhere with intellectual enthusiasm and with students whose fervor for dickens surpasses that of jack daniels."</p>
<p>I chose Princeton exactly because of the intellectual enthusiasm. The undergraduate focus, seminars, and strong emphasis on individual discovery/research showed that much more than the lack of eating clubs at other institutions did. You will choose another college because you believe the presence of eating clubs obliteratres intellectual endeavor. We're all different. Good wishes to you in finding your fit.</p>
<p>Harvard and Yale offer much smaller versions of elite institutions. These programs have their faults as well. I condemn them as vehemently as I condemn eating clubs. The difference is the magnitude. All I hear about with princeton students is eating clubs, and how "prestigious" these groups are.</p>
<p>"drunk stupor" ..... oh man, hahaha. That sort of talk makes this entire thread ridiculous.</p>
<p>What reception is this? lol. Have you ever even been to Princeton, doesnt sound like it.</p>
<p>I never said Harvard sucks. Harvard isnt for me. I think Harvard is a great university and I admit it is more prestigious and a bigger name than Princeton. and, have you ever been to Harvard? Have you been to any of the schools you claim to know about because all the information you seem to be spouting is erroneous and we have caught you every time.</p>
<p>I am actually a Princeton 09er Mea, a coup is in store.</p>
<p>Prefontaine - how are they 'prestigious?' Anyone can join. You think if an ivy league college was open to everyone it'd be at all prestigious?</p>
<p>Prefontaine - You seem so turned off by Princeton. Why would you come?</p>
<p>All you hear is about Princeton eating clubs? I dunno who you talk to, but my relatives and friends always talk about professors, classes, people, residential colleges, and athletics. Eating clubs are rarely mentioned. The only time I hear about eating clubs are from students at other schools who are jealous because eating clubs are known for good food.</p>
<p>Please continue to critique my poor grammar skills on this website Mea. It's tough being rational when fending off hoards of illogical students, but I have limited skills. Sorry, please forgive.</p>
<p>ooh, and a coup? How exciting! Will you be making a Dickens reading club? No sarcasm here. He used to be a favorite author of mine.</p>
<p>Sure, external reviewers mention academics and other more important pursuits but the students themselves seem enamored of this system. Microcosm of a decaying society i suppose.</p>
<p>Prefontaine - I rarely if ever criticize anyone's grammar. I certainly didn't criticize yours. And where are the hoards of illogical students? We're having an 'intellectual' discussion here. I thought we were all enjoying this.</p>