<p>Laundry? Cook? Shop? Clean his room? Does he drive? Whose car? Who buys the gas? Does he work? Spending money?</p>
<p>This is Day 2 of DS getting himself up for school and making his own lunch, he was in a foul mood and wouldnt talk to me. I must be doing something right.</p>
<p>:clapping&cheering:</p>
<p>So tell him he is going to take out loans that you will only pay back if he actually performs in college.</p>
<p>there’s an idea!</p>
<p>* Laundry? Cook? Shop? Clean his room? Does he drive? Whose car? Who buys the gas? Does he work? Spending money?*</p>
<p>Time for Commando Parenting…he does his own laundry, washes his own sheets once a week, does chores, cleans his own bathroom, earns his gas money, etc.</p>
<p>I think you are on the right track by turning over some responsibilities to him. Every 17/18 yr old should be able to pack lunches & do laundry. And maybe he’ll learn to love PBJs - or diversify his lunch choices. :D</p>
<p>I disagree that you looking into gap year programs is micromanaging. Many HS students don’t know what kinds of options are available & need some adult guidance. I think intparent has a good idea in #56 about developing & presenting several options. If he doesn’t like the gap year options, this might open a dialog with him about what he does want to do re: college vs. gap year. It might also prompt him to research other gap year programs.</p>
<p>I mentioned that my S2 took a different route. He narrowed his choices down to 2 acceptances but was having a difficult time deciding. My H & I developed a “decision matrix” with different factors for him to consider, such as honors college, course offerings & majors, class size, clubs & ECs, Div 1 vs Div 3 sports, Greek life, etc. He wanted to major in business so we told him that this was an $80-100K decision that he had to justify to the Board (us) - he had 2 excellent choices but he had to justify whichever one he chose. This prompted him to take a closer look at both schools. He took our decision matrix, added some factors that were important to him & disappeared into his room for the better part of a week to do research. In the end, the decision was his, not ours. We knew that if we made a decision for him, it would always be held against us, especially if it was the wrong decision. (He chose the college that we would have picked if the decision had been ours. :))</p>
<p>Finally, has he been evaluated for depression? HS seniors can sometimes get depressed & overwhelmed as they look ahead to college. His unwillingness to do anything for himself may have more to do with his psychological state than immaturity.</p>
<p>Well… I have to say, I sort of remember this period as a teenager myself. My mom did EVERYTHING related to housework (cooking, shopping, etc.) and had a housekeeper who came in weekly to clean. Pretty much no chores for the kids (I know, I know…) I found it UNBELIEVABLE that I was going to have to do things like clean, cook, etc., and resisted it with every wile you could imagine. My attitude was probably not helped by my dad being extremely misogynist, and I definitely rebelled against that (didn’t want to be tagged with “women’s work” because it was pretty clear to me that was a route to a career as “housewife” with no other options).</p>
<p>Obviously I grew up, figured out that someone has to do all those chores, and do 'em now without complaining. And didn’t end up just doing housework for the rest of my life (okay, some days it feels like it, but it really isn’t true). 
But I think it is very common for a kid who has had it all done for him to feel entitled to avoid these activities as long as possible. In their mind it is someone else’s job. I am not saying it is right, but I think it is a pretty natural thing for a teenager think and act on. You WILL have to force him to do all this stuff. Just asking may not be enough. But a gap year seems like a drastic step to take when his grades and test scores are decent, and he apparently does want to go to college.</p>
<p>So… quick update. DS just texted me that he is going to a friends house to hang out and have dinner, I am @ work. This is after I “suggested” he work on scholarship apps since so many are due Mar. 1st ( essays and teacher recs required!) and he has little to no homework. This should be something he is willing to do… to help his parents financially but no. So do I just back off and pay more for college ? Do I let him take out huge college loans because he is being immature and irresponsible?</p>
<p>Our oldest son is very bright but was very immature and very impulsive. He constantly made bad choices-no major trouble but constant little things. He barely graduated from high school. While he didn’t take a gap year, he did opt for cc. After 1 semester he told us he was going to move out because we had too many rules( let us know if you are not coming home). We told him we would still pay for school but not his living expenses. We thought he would be right back the next month, but guess what?- he pulled it off! He worked various construction trades and took 2-3 classes per semester. He totally supported himself and worked really hard. Finally when we had just about given up, he transferred and graduated 2 years later in Construction Management. He even ended up with 2 departmental scholarships. He did an internship his senior year and they loved him because he had so much hands on construction experience. That company hired him and he is now doing very well having just taken a new job OOS. </p>
<p>Some kids are just not ready to know what they want to do after high school, or are not ready to work that hard yet. I think gap years, or other options such as the one our son took can be a very successful alternative.</p>
<p>This is pretty normal teenage behavior. Stop suggesting and tell him that if he expects you to contribute to his college education the deadline for all of his scholarship applications is before school on Monday, Feb. 25. That gives him the whole weekend to get it complete and gives you a few days to review it and argue about it before it gets turned in. Tomorrow, he needs to progress teacher recommendations. If he has not already requested these, he needs to go humbly and beg teachers to help him by writing him a letter by next Wednesday, Feb. 27. TONIGHT, if he hasn’t already, TONIGHT, he needs to write a brag sheet to give each of them to help them write their letters.</p>
<p>I’d tell him that this is where the rubber meets the road. No scholarship applications, no parental help for college - because if he doesn’t come through with this, he’s obviously NOT SERIOUS about the process, and not being responsible. Then tell him you believe he can do it and that’s what you expect, and if he’s not sure where to start, you’re glad to help him and answer questions.</p>
<p>Then stand by your threat.</p>
<p>If this is the kind of stuff you’re talking about, then he just needs discipline. Just say what you mean and then stand by it.</p>
<p>If he has a car that he’s using that you pay for and provide the gas for, then maybe have a discussion with him about how he needs to start doing some grown-up, on your own activities like laundry, cleaning, etc. And that with privileges comes responsibility. If prescribed tasks aren’t done, laundry, cleaning, etc. (AND BE SPECIFIC ABOUT EXPECTATIONS), then he won’t have a car for the weekend or for after school playing around. You get the idea. Discipline.</p>
<p>Why would you “suggest” this to him? I would tell my kid “either produce a draft of that essay by X time (or date/time), or you are grounded”. Although are these scholarships for colleges he wants to attend? As I think the one you complained about earlier was a Jesuit school he was not interested in… so I am assuming you developed this scholarship list jointly with him. Just telling him without any input from him might get some pushback, and possibly with good reason.</p>
<p>When weighing full-time 4 year school vs. commuter school vs. true gap year, consider the perils of stopping math for a year. Some people are math whizzes and it’s no problem. But many weaker students (who need to reach a certain level of math to attain the degree they ultimately want) cannot afford to take a semester off math, until they’ve completed what they need. The subject is so sequential, and so susceptible to regression in those who are not “naturals” for it.</p>
<p>The problem that can arise with a gap year is that when you apply to 4-year schools in 12th grade, and then ask them to defer you for a year, and they do, they are assuming that you’re not going to school anywhere else during that deferral year. That can turn you into a transfer applicant. So, how to keep up the math skills, without causing that problem? I asked an admissions officer at a state flagship about this, and she said even taking one math course at community college during a gap year would violate the terms of the deferral and mean that you’d have to reapply as a transfer. Which seems draconian, but that’s what she said.</p>
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<p>intparent beat me to it, but why are you “suggesting”… I can honestly say if S3 texted me at work this week with scholarship applications due next week and told me he was going to hang out at someone’s house I would have one answer. This is how I really do talk to my kids. </p>
<p>“S3, you can go to blah blah’s house, but I want you home when I get home from work at 6:15 and you can’t go out after dinner because you are going to spend a couple hours on those scholarship applications that are due next week. If you have a problem with that we will discuss this face to face at 6:15.”</p>
<p>Anecdotally my H gets mad at the kids because everytime he talks to them he ‘suggests’ and doesn’t tell. He’ll be stomping around the house complaining that they didn’t move the garbage can out to the road and I’ll say “did you ask them” and he’ll admit that he “suggested”. You have to be direct with kids and if you haven’t been when they were little it’s not that hard to stop yourself and rephrase. Cause and effect works well. If the kids don’t do what I’ve told them to do directly, then there is a consequence that relates. Don’t show up at 6:15 for dinner and scholarships…well, then they have to come home right from school the next day, work on the scholarships and SHOW me the work.</p>
<p>Exactly. What Momofthreeboys said.</p>
<p>Well, another update. He just told me that he spoke to a recruiter yesterday and wants to go into the Airforce. I dont know what to say… pass the kleenex</p>
<p>They may not be such a bad thing.</p>
<p>He could be yanking your chain… or he could be looking for a way to take more control of his own life. It isn’t infantry (that is what would make me look for the kleenex!). And they WILL whip him into shape if he goes that route. </p>
<p>Maybe he is taking you seriously on the threat to not pay for college, and figures this is a way he can do it himself (eventually). My D2’s best friend’s parents were not clued in on college costs (even though they pay for private HS for this girl), and told her she was pretty much going to have to pay for her own college. So she came home during sophomore year and told them she was going to aim for the Coast Guard Academy. That got their attention… and the parents have decided they CAN come up with a significant amount of money for college. So now they are looking at LACs and angling for merit aid (like most of her classmates). Just saying that it is a logical leap for a kid to make (service academy, ROTC, or enlistment with GI benefits later) if they really think their parents are not going to pay.</p>
<p>ldavis, I know that’s scary, but with his test scores, it may not be too bad of a move. The thing to watch out for is there may be a waiting list a mile long! Recruiters have been having to turn recruits away.</p>
<p>This might be just the ticket. One thing for sure, he won’t be laying around, playing video games and wasting time if he’s in the Air Force. It would be better for him to go in with an associates degree! You might talk to him about that.</p>
<p>Oh my. That can be such a typical bratty high school senior male knee jerk reaction. Got that off my chest It might not be all bad but it will require restraint on your part. On a second note…S2 had a friend who pulled that stunt only with the army…they made him wait almost a year for bootcamp and made a bunch of promises to him about education and training which they failed to uphold within weeks after boot camp. Somehow the kid was able to get out of the agreement and is now in college. My H also told me he was “mad at his mom” and went to see the recruiter when he was 18.</p>
<p>BTW, when my boys are trying to do something they think I’ll say “no” to they text. If there is nothing in the air, they phone. Texting is a teenager’s favorite cop-out because it’s difficult to be “firm” with a text response. Mine can even be so sneaky about it they will sometimes mix it up by calling me when they know darn well i am driving through traffic home and won’t answer the phone and just leave a message knowing they will gain an hour of hanging out time. If they are supposed to be at home for a specific agreed upon reason, a simple “Get your butt home…now” text or voicemail generally brings them home. Believe me my kids have alot of leash…probably more than many parents here and I’ve had my share of issues with the boys where I wish I’d made the leash was alot shorter, but if you have an agreement about something that means everyone follows through…me included.</p>
<p>Recruiters will typically encourage recruits to have their parents come with them to talk to the recruiter. I suggest you do that. Could be entertaining. Make a list of questions.</p>
<p>Whatever you decide, Idavis, have him see a counselor pronto. Seniors go through a lot of emotional turmoil and some are saboteurs. They’re anxious, scared, afraid of competition, want to leave home, don’t want to leave home etc. It runs the gamut. An outside adult can often get to the crux of the matter. Good luck!</p>
<p>I’d be thanking whatever higher being there is if my S came home and wanted to enlist at least in the reserves… his reality consists of performing well when he wants and playing video games the rest of the time. He wouldn’t fill out a scholarship application unless you paid him immediately…</p>
<p>Let him enlist in the Air Force, if anything having multiple Drill Sergeants or whatever the AF calls them screaming right in your face while performing numerous and creative physical exercises will almost certainly instill some discipline. Plus there’s also the fact that AF has the best quality of life out of all the services, I can not even understate how envious I was as an Army Joe when I saw the kind of amenities AF personnel had access to on Super Sized FOBs like Bagram. Outside of a few select jobs like say Combat Controller, the danger involved is quite minimized.</p>
<p>And if it wasn’t for the Post 9/11 GI Bill, I wouldn’t even bother going back to school. It’s a very nice thing to have as it will cover my entire tuition and most of my living expenses thanks to the housing allowance.</p>