<p>D’s HS barely weights AP/honors grades, so GPAs with most rigorous schedules ARE lower here (trust me) than for kids who “grade shopped” when picking course schedules. Despite this, D was WL or accepted at some Ivies she applied to…some of them recalculate grades using their own weighting formula, to even the playing field between schools with different formulas. She had best luck with these. Maybe not surprisingly, some took kids from her HS who had done less challenging schedules but filled other slots (URM or athlete). State schools are the worst—they don’t look beyond rank, no matter how GPAs are calculated.</p>
<p>I have found the same with many state schools.</p>
<p>It just seems that there’s so much variation between how different schools do things (ranking, not ranking … weighting for honors, weighting for AP, not weighting … using 4.0=A and 3.0=B or adding in 3.7=A- and 3.3=B+ … a school that offers multiple weighted courses vs a school that has a few or that has a limit on how many can be taken … that I can’t imagine the schools really look at any two candidates and directly compare Joe’s 3.8 to Mary’s 3.7. At one point, they have to say that both Joe and Mary have what it takes and then start delving into other things.</p>
<p>“from my experience, high school rank gets you in or keeps you out of the door, moreso than any other factor (not taking into account legacy/aa/recruits). i had a perfect SAT score, perfect and near-perfect SAT IIs, national-level ECs, two large scholarships, numerous competitive leadership positions, took every AP class i could, and was a national merit scholar/national ap scholar/TASP participant. however, i got Bs and even 1 C and 1 D in half of my AP classes (the other half were As) and did not make the top ten percent. big mistake.”</p>
<p>I appreciate that you want to “blame” not getting in on something, but there’s no guarantee that you would have gotten in anyway. Please stop assuming that “didn’t get in” means “was judged as not being able to cut it academically.” They are selecting who to include, not rejecting students so they can see who’s left.</p>
<p>For HPY, Pizzagirl, the kids need to be one of the very top students, like val or sal. It’s only for the most rigorous high schools, that kids beyond that are selected unless they have some true hook that the school wants. </p>
<p>They do have thresh holds for grades and testscores, and once you are within a certain category, they do move on to the next. In the more selective schools, it is often things other than just the grades that get you in. The grades are pretty much taken for granted. If your gpa is low, you don’t even make it to consideration of other things, unless you are a “flagged” applicant where you have talents that are desirable enough that your other attributes are viewed in the light of the talent or situation rather than the other way around.</p>
<p>Going to HYPMSC by taking easy classes is not learning. Learning is challenging yourself, and trying to do the best you can. Those people that go to HYPMSC that aren’t qualified will struggle in college, while students like your daughter will thrive in a great school (just not HYPMSC).</p>
<p>One guy from my school studied for over 10 hours every night all four years of high school (going to bed at like 4 am daily) and was eventually #1 in our class by like 0.02 GPA points. He got rejected from HYPS, even with a bazillion AP’s and a perfect GPA. I go to a HIGHLY competitive private HS, too.</p>
<p>I have seen some surprise admits to HPY as well. If the numbers are a high match or more, a student certainly has a chance for acceptance even without a “hook”. It’s just that sooo many such students apply that it is always a high reach.</p>
<p>I have to say, I mainly agree with your assesment POIH. These days the competition for HYPSMC (and other top schools) is so stiff something like a low GPA/Rank, can knock one out of contention. While it seems like deferring a dream, I would advise if your daughter is so bent on getting into an Ivy or Ivy comparable school she applies ED to a slightly less selective (like Penn, Cornell, Duke, etc.) than apply EA to one of HYPSMC. Chances are your D will be able to find a school in that group slightly below HYPSMC that she really likes (aka if she likes HY apply ED to Columbia, she likes S she applies ED to Duke or Penn, etc.). Frankly, not being ranked in the top 20%, regardless of which school she attended is not good. 99% of Caltech’s students were in the top 10% of their class, all of HY kids were in the top quarter, and MIT only admitted one student out of the top 20% out of 368 applicants with sub 20% rank in 2006’s admission cycle. Despite Stanford having 2% outside of the top quarter, remember that 10% of Stanford’s class are recruited athletes when analyzing the data. While these statistics are only compiled from those hailing from schools that submit rank, they give you a good idea of what the admissions committee at these schools require. In fact, I’d go far enough to say that she has a slimmer chance than most at securing admission at HYPSMC, regardless of the strong test scores/extracurriculars she can bring to bear. I must add one thing though, if one of her dream schools is HYPSMC, and she can’t bare without attending one, I would apply EA to those that offer it-she shouldn’t go through next year wondering if she could/could not have gotten in. However, if she’s like most students, she can easily find one school that will fit her passions and is equally prestigious. In conclusion, have your D research schools that she will be happy with and fulfill all her criteria for selection and send in an ED app there. In the long run, if you have the financial resources and have done due research, such an action is low risk (at the worst she either gets bound to a school she doesn’t like, and transferring is always an option or else she could even be deferred/rejected which opens her a chance at HYPSMC-although probably not that great) Good luck to your D next year with her admissions cycle! Feel free to PM me if you need more clarification/advice.</p>
<p>How would applying ED AND EA even make sense? Wouldn’t it suck to get into a school ED, and have to withdraw from HYPSMC (some of which don’t even offer EA anymore), without even having a chance to get in? Applying somewhere ED is so risky - unless you really don’t care about finances and you REALLY know exactly where you want to go, it’s a bad play because there’s always that lingering <em>what if</em>. Also, the numbers above, for example about Caltech - bear in mind that Caltech is extremely number-oriented in admissions.</p>
<p>I meant ED OR EA. I’m sorry if that wasn’t clear. ED if his D KNOWS she wants to be certain to get into a certain type of school (i.e. Ivy/Top 10), EA if his D KNOWS she wants to be certain to get into a certain school (i.e. Y,S,M,C) and would not be content with another school. If you’ve followed POIH posts, or even just by the username, you would understand that he and his D are obsessed about getting into the “best” top school possible and I’m assisting them on how to do it. Even though the numbers above can’t tell the full picture, I think this information can help the OP evaluate his D’s chances at HYPSMC. My assertion is that I agree with the OP that the chances of his D getting into HYPSMC is slim, quite slim enough that she would be better off forgoing the chance to get in, instead securing a slightly less, yet still highly selective spot, at colleges right below that elite tier in selectivity. Understand that by applying EA to one of those schools, D loses the chance to apply ED to a slightly less selective school and as a result could fail to procure admission at any Ivy league school. However, if she applies ED to the tier right below HYPSMC, even though she isn’t ascertained admission, with spectacular achievements in all other realms, her chances of getting in are quite realistic. But, of course, it is possible that she could get into one of HYPSMC EA if she chooses that course of action and it is still possible she could get rejected ED from the rest of the ivies if she chooses the other path. I do understand this is sort of convoluted but if you read it carefully you’ll understand that my point is POIH D should play it safe and apply ED to a less selective, yet extremely prestigious school.</p>
<p>Personally I had a strong but not top of my class GPA at a strong high school, a great SAT score, and great ECs. The ECs and SAT were enough to get me into every non-HYP school I applied to at some point - Columbia, Dartmouth, Brown, Duke, Northwestern - but not enough to get me into HYP (WL at H). I believe that the non HYP Ivies were willing to forgive a little on the GPA, but HYP didn’t.</p>
<p>Wouldn’t a better piece of advice for POIH be to remember there’s a big world of excellent schools out there that don’t belong to the Ivy League?</p>
<p>I kinda agree. It is possible to ‘design’ your transcript.. There are courses you’d do better than in other ones, even though both are same level(ex. AP). We get our schedule in the beginning of the year and a lot of my friends drop courses if they got hard teachers and tried to reschedule it somehow so they get an easier teacher.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, you think people haven’t tried that? Half of his threads are filled with that advice…it’s clear he isn’t going to listen and he has a personal agenda that won’t be altered by strangers online. Since it’s clear there’s no negotiation on that point, might as well help him with the purpose of his thread, but that does not mean I agree with his mission.</p>
<p>Cervantes: I don’t think she is out of top 20% in her class at this point. School did induct around 9% to ‘Cum Laude’ society which brought this thread alive.
My D will be applying to some colleges EA. She is researching colleges and I hope she will be able to finalize her list soon.
She is not too much bent upon going to Ivies that offer ED, so ED is out of question at this point.</p>