<p>Sax, at least now we are laughing, right?</p>
<p>I just clicked on that link. 131 pages!?! I'm not going there... I don't know if I'd be wiser, but a person would certainly be older after reading all that.</p>
<p>2blue, I thought the exact same thing. ^^^^^^^^^</p>
<p>Oh yes. That thread aged me at least 2 years.</p>
<p>The more things change, the more they stay the same...</p>
<p>Except that of course a few of the elites have gotten a lot more affordable for the middle class.</p>
<p>oh, lets hope this thread doesn't go in the same direction as that 131-pager.
I remember talk about Yo Yo Ma practicing with an elementary school orchestra (you know - kind of like a Harvard-caliber kid rubbing elbows with kids in a lowly state school?). Uggh...<br>
Do I also remember another thread comparing state schools to low-rent restaurants serving burgers and chicken nuggets with football games blaring on big-screen tvs? Double uggh...
Tax guy...I'm with you. But I feel no need to add to this argument. Tired I guess.</p>
<p>Ah YA! But taxguy got on me when my daughter got into a “top” school. His words. Saying I was an idiot for paying what I did for this school. I was not whining about anything. I just took exception to his comments about downgrading mydaughter’s school and saying it was overprice and not as good as XYZ University where his daughter went to school. Would I like a scholarship for my kid? Yep! Did I expect or cry about it. Nope! But boy did I get a ration of you know what for sending my daughter to (gasp), a wonderful Top Dream school! Yes expensive, but I am willing to pay for. So I look on this forum and look who I find asking this question. So I ask all who agree with Taxguy. What are you arguing about here? (Straw man” comes to my mind). </p>
<p>Let us all revisit the original question. I repeat Taxguy’s question: Is a top dream school really better than a free ride at a state school?</p>
<p>If it is to you, for god sakes send your kid to the state school with my blessing, but don’t get down on us who choose to do something different. All kids are different, all schools are different, and all families are different.</p>
<p>Osage77, I don't think that I ever called you an "idiot" or used the word "idiot." On the off chance that I did,however, let me apologize now.</p>
<p>The idea that folks "dream" about schools indicates how low our aspirations, as individuals and as a society, have sunk. Dream of curing cancer? Yes. Dream of winning the Kentucky Derby? Yes. Dream of ending hunger? Yes. Dream of being rich and flaunting it? Yes. But dreaming about a school? :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Dad II made some pretty good points in post #33 as did mathmom in post #37. I think people are different in how they define "success" and what they consider "important" in life. Some people are more practical and "realistic" while others are more "idealistic" than practical. It's basically a philosophical difference.</p>
<p>OMG; Mini; we are agreeing way too often lately. I agree with you whole heartedly on the "DREAM SCHOOL". In another post I said pretty much the same thing. Your GOAL should not be getting to a particular school. Your GOALS should be the type of career you want; the type of family; where you want to live; type of friends; recreation; stimulations both intellectually as well as physically; wealth; etc... These should be your goals. College is just one of many tools to help you get there. Making which college you go to itself as a goal is crazy. A goal has to be something that YOU CAN CONTROL achieving such a thing. You can't control with any certainty getting into any particular school outside of a community college and SOME state schools.</p>
<p>How many people have threads here about all the rejection letters they have received? How many valedictorians and 4.0gpa students got rejected from Harvard and Princeton on these boards? How many STATE RESIDENTS didn't get into the University of Texas (Austin) because they weren't in the top 10% of their graduating class? Sorry; but a goal has to be something that you control the outcome of. When you look at the type of goals I mentioned in the last paragraph; then you can look at which colleges (AS A TOOL) can help you achieve those goals.</p>
<p>Yes, sometime Harvard AND PAYING FULL PRICE, could be the school required to meet a certain goal. But when a kid goes to school and DOESN'T know what they want to study; paying to go to Harvard and such is indeed a waste of money. Of course; that is a relative statement. If you make $1 million a year, $50,000 a year for Harvard means nothing. If you can get a needs based financial aid package that doesn't cost you much, that too is good. Same with private scholarships. But any parent or student that would put themselves into major debt to go to Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc... without a PLAN on how these schools are going to help reach their goals, really has some financial planning problems and deficiencies. There is absolutely no reason for that. You should tell the kid to go to a public school for their undergraduate degree; especially if it's a free ride; then offer to pay for their graduate degree. At least you'll have the money for graduate school. You won't if you have a $200,000 loan.</p>
<p>Again; this not intended for those who got a lot of financial aid, scholarships, are wealthy, etc... and cost is not a factor. It's meant for the 80% where they will get very little financial aid; doesn't get the scholarships; are middle class and are making $75,000 - $250,000 a year; and will most often have to pay a large portion of the tuition and cost of the school.</p>
<p>
[quote]
But dreaming about a school?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>And what wrong with dreaming or setting a goal to put yourself in a position to learn and surround yourself with an intellectual, social, and environmental setting which will leave an indelible impression on you for the rest of your life? This is true regardless if it is a positive of negative experience. There is nothing foolish for aspiring to be in an environment that you believe that could develop your human, social, economical, etc, potential far beyond its current status. To me that's exciting, and worth dreaming about. Learning should be a life long experience, but the collegiate experience for many reasons, is a worthwhile goal, not to be trivialized. With price tags up to $225,000, heck yeah, it's a real and tangible landmark in one's life!</p>
<p>Is having Jane Fonda as my lover better than my wife? </p>
<p>We have only marginal control of better or worse. We can only make decisions in what we perceive to be in our best interests. </p>
<p>I can only dream of Jane.</p>
<p>"And what wrong with dreaming or setting a goal to put yourself in a position to learn and surround yourself with an intellectual, social, and environmental setting which will leave an indelible impression on you for the rest of your life?"</p>
<p>What's wrong with it is that the vast, overwhelming majority of 16 and 17 year olds know next to nothing about those settings, and could be happy and satisfied and intellectually satisfied in any of dozens of institutions prepared to take their money, or in doing something more interesting instead of college (if they had enough freedom of mind to think about the possibilities.)</p>
<p>"And what wrong with dreaming or setting a goal to put yourself in a position to learn and surround yourself with an intellectual, social, and environmental setting which will leave an indelible impression on you for the rest of your life?"
Excuse me but there are many places this can happen. It happened to me at UCD over 35 years ago and happened to my son this year while attending a school under almost everyone here's radar. How many kids graduate from the elites with dreams of helping make this world a better place? Hopefully many do, and not just have dreams of I Banking, or the salaries that come from being a Dr., or Lawyer. I don't think you need to attend an elite to do it.</p>
<p>I think one of the points of dissension here may be the idea of what a college education is. If you are focusing on the major and the preparation for a particular career, then certainly the University of Iowa may have the best program in the world in some particular field. If, however, you are focusing more on the overall quality of a liberal arts education, then you are going to get more at an elite college. Understanding how you feel about that distinction might help you make a decision, I suppose.</p>
<p>hunt - disagree. I know plenty state schools with excellent liberal arts programs. I don't buy that you will get more at an elite school. Certainly not in all cases.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The idea that folks "dream" about schools indicates how low our aspirations, as individuals and as a society, have sunk. Dream of curing cancer? Yes. Dream of winning the Kentucky Derby? Yes. Dream of ending hunger? Yes. Dream of being rich and flaunting it? Yes. But dreaming about a school?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I was in disagreement with mini (post #52) to dream of the college experience is somehow not worthy. I think that it is. Where the experience happens is an individual choice.</p>
<p>toneranger; definitely agree. There are plenty of great liberal arts degrees out there from non elite schools. Personally; I am not a big fan of liberal arts degrees. But, for the person who is definitely going on to graduate school or more; a liberal arts degree is quite fine. However; if this is the case, then a liberal arts degree is even more reason to NOT go to an elite ivy league type of school. If you know for a fact that you are going to graduate school; because rarely is a liberal arts degree something you can get a decent job with, but it's a great foundation for further education such as a lawyer, doctor, business, and plenty of others; then why spend all that money for such a degree. Get your liberal arts degree from a quality state college; save approximately $100,000 (Assuming no aid or scholarships) and use that money for your graduate degree. Including a graduate degree from one of the ivy's and elites.</p>
<p>The problem with all these dreams of a make believe world, is that the adjective are finite. Or rather the assumptions are finite. The meaning is definitely coming across a such to mean words like "Always, only, never, etc..." The way many of these posts read, it sounds like an elite/ivy league school is the "ONLY" place you find such grandeur. That you can "NEVER" find it at a state school. No one here has said that you can't find such an experience at an elite/ivy school. They have only said that you can ALSO FIND THE SAME THING at many public schools. However, there appears to be a certain belief among some, that there are just some experiences that you get at the elite/ivy's that CAN'T BE FOUND ANYWHERE ELSE. This is bull.</p>
<p>If people want to rationalize their $100,000 debt and believe somehow that they received something that NO ONE in a public school could receive; then have at it. The truth is; if you really want to have dreams of making a difference in the world; being successful, and all other feeling of leaving your mark; then you're going to need a lot more than an elite school education. Especially if all you have is a degree in liberal arts. Remember; as much as you want to believe different; the world of academia (No matter what school it is) is the land of MAKE BELIEVE. It is NOT the real world.</p>
<p>
[quote]
no so - most kids who are strong enough to get admitted to an Ivy would get a full ride elsewhere. If they didn't it's because they didn't look hard enough.
[/quote]
Yes. I guess these kids were what OP set out to disscussion.</p>