Is enthusiastic coach call = "likely letter"?

Parent Cafe
201

<p>Questions I would now ask:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>Where is my kid on your ranked list of recruits, ability wise? Where is my kid stats wise? (Specific #1, #2 answers only, not "top of list" or "high on list"!)</p></li>
<li><p>What is the minimum cutoff point (SATs, grades, class rank) for a "recruitable" kid at your school?</p></li>
</ul>

<p>-Do you have any designated auto-admit "trump cards"? If so, how many? Will you use this for my kid if necessary?</p>

<p>-In past years, has the school ever failed to honor an auto admit?</p>

<ul>
<li>what has adcom liaison said about my kid's candidacy?<br></li>
</ul>

<p>-Should I still apply to other schools? (**NO MATTER WHAT they say, apply to other schools, unless you have likely letter from admission & maybe even then!)</p>

<p>-Can I get that in writing from the admission office?</p>

<p>-How many other kids of my kid's sex (& if applicable, specialty) are you recruiting? How many of them have committed to ED?</p>

<p>-What would happen if a "better" kid came along at the 11th hour?</p>

<p>The answers to these questions will help you determine the real recruitment landscape at the school. </p>

<p>I completely agree with some of the points above -- for example, initial correspondence is usually generic BS. My D was still getting letters from Emory recently, despite that she did not apply... she was obviously on a computerized list... Xmas cards, personal notes from players, etc... complete BS.</p>

202

<p>SB Mom</p>

<p>Thank you for your thoughts.</p>

<p>Your questions assume that the assistant coach (i) knows the answers to the questions you would pose, and (ii) that they will give you a straight answer. I am not certain that those are always valid assumptions.</p>

<p>Please recall that Dartmouth lost a great lacrosse coach when Rick Sowell quit over the issue of getting cooperation from admissions. Coach Sowell's assistant told me that Sowell worked his butt off to get a top recruiting class but quit when something like 5 of his 11 recruits were denied admission despite the fact that each one of the rejected kids met the guidelines that the schools admissions office had established. Had Coach Sowell given you his word and you relied upon it then your daughter would have been steered off course because Coach Sowell had been mislead by his institution. </p>

<p>I also question whether the Ivies and other elite academic institutions have "auto admits" for non revenue sports as your posts suggests. I am sure that if a kid has the ability to raise the level of the men's basketball team to make it likely that it will share in the NCAA Tournament riches then that kid will be treated differently than a non- revenue prospect.</p>

<p>I would never believe a coach if he told me that he would not drop your son or daughter if a more promising one became available at the "11th hour".</p>

<p>Best wishes to all.</p>

203

<p>Well, I would not talk to an assistant coach, I would talk to the head coach him or her self and I would have any "too good to be true" promises confirmed by admission office in writing.</p>

<p>I believe there are different auto-admit policies at each school. Some don't have any. Some have just a few in non revenue sports and high #s in certain revenue sports.</p>

<p>Had the 'Coach Sowel'l situation come up for my D, we would have been very disappointed but really fine... She'd still have had another 5 RD apps out and acceptances to 3 safeties already. :) We were very cautious!! </p>

<p>Furthermore, no coach has the power to get all 10 out of 10 recruits in-- that would be like having 10 auto-admits. My understanding of auto admits is that they still need to be above the minimum recruitment standards for the school. </p>

<p>The coach's kids will get a push not unlike the push of being a great musician or science champ. For some kids this push will be enough to push them in, and for others it will not. If the coach actually had one auto-admit, he could then use it on one of the 5 denied kids.</p>

<p>The main thing one is trying to nail down with the questions is whether or not this school is the one I should be spending my ED coin on. That is a combination of how much you love the school and whether or not there is a great connection with a credible and enthusiastic coach. It also depends whether or not the culture of the school emphasizes winning teams (so that even if you aren't an auto admit they "want" to say yes to you.)</p>

<p>Very difficult terrain in any case, because no rules seem to hold as standard everywhere!</p>

204

<p>Thanks, Otis and SBMom. This thread is so important to S and us (his parents) as we begin this process. We have met with coaches at 3 Ivys and 1 D1 LAC so far but are in a very preliminary stage. S is in a "timed" sport and this season's times will be key. It is coming through loud and clear to me that backups are needed- and backups for the backups! We are fortunate to have a strong college counseling department behind us (with tremendous experience in placing athletes) and a realistic, well-connected high school coach. I appreciate all of your experience, and hope I can help others as we move through the process.</p>

205

<p>My report is about my DD with national sport team experience in a non-varsity sport.</p>

<p>A} We connected with a coach of a top 5 school via learning about the opportunities in her sport. This coach encouraged us to apply at his school as well as giving us info about the college scene in general. The coach said he would be able to fill in a request. We applied EA and provided the coach with transcripts, etc. DD was in the proper range to be realistic for this school, but since it is an "Ivy-type" school, we really had not considered it previously, as we wanted to be realistic.</p>

<p>DD was denied EA.</p>

<p>B} We applied to a couple of match/safeties with no coach communciation needed- she was admitted with $.</p>

<p>C} We met up with a coach at a top LAC- simply awesome coach, lots of material sent out, coach visited us on the west coast, though school is back east. DD visited and was admitted. The coach had the power to "tip" at admissions, but she did fit the school profile well. This school was a match/reach (rigorous admissions)</p>

<p>D} We applied to the two two public universities- one coach could not help at all, one coach could submit a form. DD was admitted to both! Even out of state! Both have extremely rigorous admissions!</p>

<p>So, if you have a kid in a non-traditional sport, a non-varsity sport, go ahead and contact the coaches, see how your profile matches and see if the coaches can help.</p>

<p>Our process was nothing like some of the aforementioned ones, as there was no scholarship money and no varsity status (except at the LAC.) In our case, we need to pick a program that allows my DD to continue to develop her skills and be able to play at the national team level.</p>

206

<p>so what school is she going to pick?!</p>

207

<p>She is agonising over her choices now, I think the Vassar coach would take excellent care of her as it is a varsity program with doctors & all that and he is a full time employes, but the campus is politically pretty far left for her and being small you cannot really avoid the strong political viewpoints being espoused.</p>

<p>If she chooses Berkeley, obviously they are politcally left, too, but with so many students, you can find more people like you. She has athlete friends at Berekely and it it closer to our hometown. She is simply not sure she wants to go back east. Their coach is also great, has been helpful and encouraging, though their program is rated much lower (#14) so we will talk to her national team coach and watch the sweet 16 results this month to make sure it would not hinder her development. She also should interview for a scholarship there shortly.</p>

<p>One of the safeties, with lots of $ is simply not good enough in her sport :( The other safety, UCSD, is great, but if she picks a UC, she would pick one with the big football and all that, as she would enjoy the big games. That sounds so silly, but I think the "real" school feel of Cal, being in a city where there is plenty of action, would trump a suburban school like UCSd where you can find a social life, but need to work much harder at it.</p>

<p>UVA was a great visit and has a great program (#2) in her sport with a very helpful involved coach, but it was cold & rainy most of the visit, the airport connections were lousy, the flights were long, she was hingry, etc. (Can I get some cheese with this whine?) I do not know if she has an appreciation for the historical significance of the things in the area. </p>

<p>She has been away from the area she always consdered "home" for 5 years and would like to head back to Northern California and Cal would be a few hours from "home." UVA could be a great experience and she is not afraid of broadening herself, but we probably won't see a decision for a few weeks. Seeing the financial packages may affect our decisions, too!</p>

<p>I'll let you know. I must say, we have kept the process fun, and I think that is because finding a place for a girl playing rugby is simply less intense than grooming a football or volleyball recruit!</p>

208

<p>Thank you all for sharing your experiences. I was curious.... how specific were the coaches you dealt with regrarding number of slots they were looking to fill and specific academic requirments needed. (Academic Index hurdles or more general gpa, sat #'s?) I am particularly interested in non-revenue sports.<br>
Thanks in advance</p>

209

<p>I am afraid that the idea of a simple minimum credential probably doesn't apply in the way some of the posts suggest. I doubt that there is any "automatice admit" at any of the Ivy schools. Everyone has to get through the admissions office, even if only by a sign-off.</p>

<p>For the sports with the highest profiles and the most recruits, there are rules that require not only each individual, but also the team as a whole to meet certain numerical targets. Obviously, there is some guesswork on the coaches part since you can't be sure who will attend, let alone who will be admitted. </p>

<p>See the following articles for a little light on the lack of unanimity in views of recruiting. I am sure you can find more with a little thought and googling.<br>
<a href="http://www.cornellsun.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/09/28/4158e3b86f3fb%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.cornellsun.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/09/28/4158e3b86f3fb&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.dartreview.com/archives/2005/01/31/the_fortunes_of_dartmouth_football.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.dartreview.com/archives/2005/01/31/the_fortunes_of_dartmouth_football.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=349217%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=349217&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>The point is simply that in addition to the obvious motivations for a coach to be interested in protecting himself and his recruiting spots, there are aspects to the system that make it more complicated than simply having each individual meet some minimum target.</p>

210

<p>dadx, </p>

<p>I agree that it can and does vary. But I believe there are imaginary lines beneath which a recruit's chances in a non-revenue sport are nil.</p>

<p>sleepless,</p>

<p>Not all coaches answer these questions directly. </p>

<p>My guess is that at the elite level, Ivy & other high-stat schools like Williams, Tufts, etc, you'd need to be in the 1250/1300+ range (old SAT rubric) to be recruited for a non-revenue sport, unless you are a major sports star, URM, or development admit at the same time. Then it could probably be 1200-ish or perhaps a hair lower.</p>

<p>My D's first attempt at SAT was 1290 and she got attention. Her second attempt was 1350 and the attention improved.</p>

<p>If 93% of students in top 10% of their HS class, that will be important too. If 75% their kids are in top 10% of class, it will be less important.</p>

<p>As to the number of slots, the coach who was the best communicator was very explicit: "I want to bring in X# of freshmen for the team, and I want your D to be one of them." This coach early on asked for copy of transcript for review (prior to formal application.) I assume that it was looked at by adcom in order to ascertain if D was "recruitable."</p>

<p>Don't be shy of asking the pointed questions.</p>

211

<p>Sleepless:</p>

<p>My DD fit the score & grade profile for the schools, though the school which declined her (S) even encouraged her to apply before her SAT topped 1400.</p>

<p>With 1400 & 4.0UW & what I considered excellent recs, I mistly saw coaches say they were thrilled that she fit so well and they all told us she would be ranked #1 on their list. Because her scores were there, they did not need to stretch anything. </p>

<p>UCSD indicated no need to "use" up one of their picks on her as she would be admitted on academics alone, so apparently they havew a limited number of tips.</p>

212

<p>PS </p>

<p>dadx, great articles. Thanks for the links. I read the whole harvard article and it confirms many of the notions on this thread, including that some schools give coaches considerable power. Imagine, for example, that the coach only <em>proposes</em> two "first band" recruits... they would seem to be defacto "auto admits."</p>

213

<p>Dear people...</p>

<p>Next year I'm going to middlebury college.
I have walked trough the whole admission process, so I know how most of the things works...
However I know nothing about recruitment and so want advice from your knowlegable people...</p>

<p>My brother is a high school sophomore...
He and I are international students...
We have no idea what recruitment works as this doesn't exist in our country..</p>

<p>He is currently one of the top tennis players in the country, ranked top 10 in the national rankings, and regularly plays internationally tournaments.
At school he is doing very well... he is taking the hardest curriculum at school and is also valedictorian.. </p>

<p>I wonder what we should do now... he already started to prep for his SAT's. But should we also start mailing to coaches and sending them tapes of my brother's tennis?? If not, when? </p>

<p>I study in US next year, so my brother can come to US with me before school starts.. Do coaches have time to see my brother playing tennis?</p>

<p>How "important" is tennis in the US? Do colleges want to recruit people for tennis??</p>

<p>My brother gets 2100 in his SAT I practice tests. At what schools should he be aiming... and which schools are recruiting students??</p>

214

<p>Based on what you say, your brother will be in very big demand at lots of top colleges. Huge. Prepare a sports Curriculum Vitae, and email it to some coaches.</p>

215

<p>He is just sophomore? Is it maybe too early? The coaches can forget him over time...</p>

216

<p>Be very careful! There are strict rules about retaining his amateur status if he wants to play tennis with a National Collegiate Athletic Assn. (NCAA) program. He can not be a professional. There was just a big problem with some tennis players at U.S. colleges who were barred because they had won tournament money.
Go to the NCAA website to start the process. He will have to register with the NCAA. It is fine to do this in Junior year.
He can contact coaches and visit schools whenever he wants but there are very strict rules about when coaches can contact him.</p>

<p>There are three divisions in college sports: The NCAA website can help you find lists for your sport.
Division I: power house schools, mostly large and/or public universities. They can offer scholarships.
Division II:some scholarships
Division III: majority of small liberal arts schools, including Middlebury. At this level, sports can help you get in to the school but there are no athletic scholarships.</p>

<p>Put together an athletic resume. If you search on the web, you might find an example of a tennis resume. I got this format from another ccer:
"PAGE 1</p>

<p>Academic Information: gpa, test scores, MAJOR academic awards.</p>

<p>Athletic Information: height, weight, and the basic athletic skills test results for her sport.</p>

<p>High school athletic history for that sport (brief: team, position, awards, coach's name and contact info, etc.).</p>

<p>Club sport athletic history, same info as high school.</p>

<p>PAGE 2</p>

<p>List of summer camps attended for that sport and year of attendance.</p>

<p>"Other", briefly noting most significant EC's (including her other sport)</p>

<p>Additional Information -- significant academic, athletic and extracurricular achievement that didn't fit in "bullet point" format on page 1.</p>

<p>A prominent box at the bottom with her current playing schedule."</p>

<p>Sorry to be so long winded. Feel free to PM me as we are in the middle of the process.</p>

217

<p>It is not too early... </p>

<p>I would get in touch with coaches at Ivies and top LACs (like Middlebury!) with those scores. Ivy tennis is a significant step up from NESCAC tennis, you will need to figure out where he belongs (and that could change by senior year).</p>

<p>Depending on your home country, being top ten could be huge or only so/so. Maybe you could make a tape of him hitting and show it to the Middlebury men's coach for some feedback on his level of play and ideas about where he might be an asset to the team?</p>

<p>One of the kids on the Harvard team was in top 10 in England. He is playing #6 or #7 on the Harvard roster I believe. Kids who would be #2 or 3 at Middlebury would not make the Stanford roster.</p>

<p>Its all a matter of where he'd fit but I suspect he'll fit somewhere good.</p>

218

<p>coaches can looking early but they can't say more than hello until his junior year. actually, it would be a good idea to contact coach's now because obviously, they are going to have a harder time scheduling him into their recruiting schedules. get him to send in an info sheet and cover letter. Also.. he should send what some recruiting pros call a "postcard." it quite literally is a card with (welll in softball it was my jersey number, and my summer schedule). Also, your brother should make a recruiting skills tape and line up his references (whether it be a private coach... or what not) by.... (I'm assuming tennis is a spring sport.. though that might not be the case) January of his junior year. After he can start regularly e-mailing college coach's (during his junior year), he should say... blah blah... I have a skills tape... would you like it in dvd or vhs format? then send it out... to... whoever you are most interested( I'd say top ..10.. 8 or 5 schools) and let the coach's know... "hey... I'm really interested. you're in my top __" hope this helps</p>

219

<p>If he is really ranked no. 10, he will get calls. </p>

<p>Tiger Woods was recruited by Stanford when he was 11 years old. They sent him a likely letter when he was 11. He was astounded but his father convinced him that he should write a reply. He wrote that if he ever wanted to go to college, he would certainly think about Stanford.</p>

<p>If you brother isn't getting calls, he could always send an email inquiry to the tennis coach of his top five choices.</p>

220

<p>
[quote]
Tiger Woods was recruited by Stanford when he was 11 years old.

[/quote]
This feels like an urban legand to me. I believet he NCAA recruitiung rules for cross country, track & field, football, and basketball do not let schools contact players before the summer before their senior year ... the coaches can't even walk up and say hello to the player after watching them play a game if they are 9th, 10th, or 11th graders. I would be VERY surprised if the recruiting rules for golf were that different (the recruiting rules for any sport can be found at <a href="http://www.ncaa.org%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.ncaa.org&lt;/a> . All that said, the schools can reply to any contact the player proactively initiates.</p>