<p>And are the B's happier academically/athletically when they wind up at schools where they become A's? More playing time? Less academic pressure?</p>
<p>Dcmom, I find the audition situation much more stressfull. In the case of my athlete, it was really a much simpler process in that we just looked for schools that had his sport at his level. It was really pretty easy to assess where he fit in the scheme of things as he had played on the club level for years, and he was being recruited (low key) for some time. His coach had placed her own children in colleges based on the support and helped a number of kids use the sport as a hook. So it was just a matter of trying to get that little bit extra. He did get into several schools without help from the coach. Also scheduling visits to the school and including a visit to the coach was still pretty much on our own terms. In one case he was able to see two teams from two colleges both on his list in competition with each other, and spoke to team members and coaches from both teams. </p>
<p>This MT business is really getting expensive, and the scheduling is difficult. We have been away many weekends. And there is very little feedback. There is also the possibility that my son could get totally shut out given the selectiveness of the programs. With the sport, it was really an extra that ENHANCED my older son's attractiveness to a school that he may well have gotten into without that hook. With the MT program, my son is likely to get turned down by schools that would easily accept him except that he is applying to this highly competitive program. As an example, we went to the Harrt Institute which has an excellent MT program that accepts very few kids (as most do). The University of Hartford which houses this program is not particularly selective, and I would say S would be a shoo in for that school. But he would not want to go there unless he could study at Harrt. My friend's son is hoping for a sport at SUNY Purchase, as it is a state school for them, and not only is the cost low, but the acting program is top knotch. Again, I am sure the young man could easily get into Purchase as a liberal arts major, but in the acting program his chances are in single digits. He would have a better chance of getting into Harvard, we like to say. So the performing art programs actual make the situation more restrictive rather than enhancing as the sport did. For all the warnings about the recruiting process, it does offer a venue of increased odds for already excellent candidates and opens up some choices for kids who would not have a chance at a particular school without the athletic hook. It works the opposite way with theatre.</p>
<p>Jamimom,
Not to hijack this thread and turn it into an MT thread but you're right about the expense and without feedback, you feel as if you're in the dark. Although coaches can leave you in the dark if they are not totally honest. I guess athletics does work more as a hook to help a student gain admission, but on the other hand my D did get in to a BFA acting program where she NEVER would have been accepted to the school just based on SAT's So who knows?</p>
<p>Re feedback: When my D got an academic acceptance but an MT rejection from a rolling admissions school (her "safety" we thought but there is no such thing for BFA programs) I called the department and asked for feedback since she had 7 more auditions. The secretary very graciously and honestly told me what the 4 auditors' comments were and it helped--we immediately changed her songs (so much for the the advice of her expensive voice teacher!) Hopefully you won't need to ask for feedback. Best of luck to your son and I hope he gets into where he wants.</p>
<p>Wow, just read through this entire thread and it's pretty disheartening to hear all this stuff.
My top choice school, Davidson, which I'm still in the mid 50% academically (3.93 GPA / 1320 SAT) has been calling me every week and wanting to know about my progress and everything in my sport. I verbally commited, and the coach told me I had to fly down on January 23rd to "fill out the paperwork" and informed me that I am his top recruit. I was almost certain, after all this interest he expressed and from my verbal commitment, that I was definitely in. Now I'm scared ****less, because I don't have a safety on my list (Georgetown, Wake Forest, Davidson, Tulane) but I know I could partcipate in my sport for all of them.
My question: Does a verbal commitment not mean anything? I was almost certain that if someone signed early or committed early that he or she was in. I know my girlfriend signed in November with Georgetown and even without an application, has been told that she is in. What's the deal with all of this?</p>
<p>My son also gave a verbal for his sport. We ( and all his friends in similar situations) believe the coach. To us a verbal agreement between coach and player is as good as an acceptance. Unless the coach is total slime, this agreement should be kept. But it has to be from both the student and the coach. Not the parent saying yes my S would like to play here. The player and coach should talk and then they have a verbal agreement that the child will go there.</p>
<p>This by no means quarantees any playing time. even if you are told you are my top recruit. You will start as a freshman. Those words are only good on the day they are uttered.
Other recruits are being told the same thing and everyone has to earn their playing time.</p>
<p>Ecliptica -- I think you are in good shape. You have to remember, everyone here may be talking about a different school, different coach, and different sport -- lots of variables. The fact that the coach is keeping up with you so consistently seems like a very good sign to me.</p>
<p>In my S's case, we have had no direct contact with the coach since the day he told S what kind of support he was willing to provide and what he thought that would translate into in terms of admissions. No guarantees of admission, of course.</p>
<p>S wants no interference by parents, and at the age of 17, he believed that conversation with the coach was sufficient for him. Either he was right or he wasn't, and in either case, he will know the answer soon.</p>
<p>I agree with Dizzymom. In the case of your friend and Georgetown, that is a whole different story. Some schools that have a big time sport and give big scholarships have a process where you go and sign "the letter of intent". Mainly because of their basketball program, GT goes through this process even if the athlete is not getting a scholarship. </p>
<p>By the way, my son did apply to both Davidson and GT. The coach at GT for his sport had little pull with admissions and he was waitlisted there--he had applied EA. He applied RD to Davidson and was accepted there.</p>
<p>
[quote]
This by no means quarantees any playing time. even if you are told you are my top recruit. You will start as a freshman.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well, this is track and field, so times and distances are pretty set. I know that right now Davidson doesn't have any long jumpers or short sprinters, which is what I was being recruited for.
The coach told me that when I send off the second half of the application (Davidson has a two-part app.) I have to contact him to tell him that it's on its way, so they can flag it down and mark it 'recruit', I assume this is a good sign, especially since I'm flying down AFTER the application is due. I don't see why I would fly down to meet with him after the application is supposed to be in if there wasn't a chance I wouldn't be attending the school.
Lastly, the coach('s) did all the contacting, I never once called the coach before he called me or e-mailed him. This is also on the back of my mind, and once he found out that I may be running for Wake Forest instead, that was what really sparked his interest.</p>
<p>::sigh:: I think I'm just trying to convince myself that I'll be going there. I honestly would not be suprised at all to see a rejection letter come April.</p>
<p>What if a coach says, "I get X number of picks and you are my pick; if you apply you are in."</p>
<p>Does this hold water?</p>
<p>SBMOM: I think the point of this thread has been to caution others against those kinds of statements made by a coach because it is not the coach's job to accept kids. It is admissions responsibility to do that. Most coaches we spoke to said they would give various levels of support but that it was clearly admissions that chose the students. The good coaches even cautionned about reading too much into a coach's recommendation.</p>
<p>SBMOM; Just to continue our little conversation about you know who, see, it's so different with everyone. I just am not up to 'scary' coaches any longer. We had our absolute full of the situation with the h.s.coach who was mad. She was absolutely mad, I can't even relate all the outrageous things she did that got herself in trouble with parents, administration,athletic director and the principal. Okay, here's one,- how about making huge signs for all her players to hold up in the bus when leaving the grounds of a particularly competitive opponent school. Things like ' ---- Rule', ' We are #1', so the kids started that nonsense and what happened? The opposing team's school started swearing and throwing things at the bus. And how about calling the trainer after my daughter sprained her ankle and screaming at him on his answering machine for 10 mins. that he has to tape up my daughter's ankle for the next match and 'get her out there any way possible'. -Have you ever had a sprained ankle? I even ran into a retired school's coach once and we started taking about said coach and Retired Coach said, " She grabbed me by the collar and nearly strangled me at a match!" .............So , this stuff exsists, and for once in our life I'm looking forward to the matches not meaning quite as much as the always did.
With coaches there is- 'Crazy' -and sometimes you come to a point where ENOUGH IS ENOUGH ALREADY.</p>
<p>SBMOM; Just read what Speedcoach wrote and yes that happened to us. Although coach made quite a point he was interested he also made it clear that admission guidelines had to be met and there was significant competition becasue of the ACADEMICS. I agree with Speedcoach, I got that impression the Admissions Office carries more weight than the coach.</p>
<p>I think Speedcoach got it, and re-stated it well. Just be cautious about putting too much stock in vague promises about "supporting" the application, or "being on the list." What I learned in my experience is that there really is no "one size fits all" when it comes to how much power a coach has with admissions. In some schools it was considerable, it others it was surprisingly little (even to the coach). Of course, my experience was limited by the fact that my son had the grades and scores to get in anywhere he applied, and all but one application of his went to a reach school, so athletics were his hook -- but not an equalizing factor to make up for less than stellar stats.</p>
<p>Caveat Emptor (Buyer Beware). Couldn't resist legal term but that is what it basically is. Our coach was very honest. He indicated that admissions would be made aware that son was wanted by them by way of this list but that there were other recruits ahead of him. There were no guarantees, no likely letters, no vague promises, etc. I respected that and we accepted the terms. We hope that given son's otherwise strong academic and personal record that this would be enough to get him in but we are very realistic. We are prepared for the worst and hoping for the best. That unfortunately is how life is sometimes.</p>
<p>Is it appropriate to ask coach to arrange for us to speak to the athletic liaison in admissions, to confirm the coach's statement? </p>
<p>Coach was quite explicit with D and coach's comments jibe with realities on this board; coach requested D's stats & transcripts and had them reviewed by adcom prior to making this statement. </p>
<p>Coach said there were players who, if out of ballpark with stats, could not be coach's pick-- but D's stats (close to median for school) were good enough to put her in "free pick" territory.</p>
<p>If adcom confirms, <em>then</em> does this hold water?</p>
<p>Another lawyer weighing in here- SBMom, I don't blame you for wanting more assurance after reading all this. I bet it will be fine, but it is certainly reasonable to speak with the coach and/or the adcomm liason and voice your concerns. Karen</p>
<p>Some of you may not have seen the recent post on one of the Princeton threads, possibly from a current student there, in response to a recruited athlete's post that s/he had received an e-mail from his/her crew coach saying that decisions had gone out and asking him/her to call when s/he received notification.</p>
<p>The responding poster said that 'usually' adcoms do not tell coaches which of their recruits are in, so the students know before the coaches.</p>
<p>I don't know whether this goes just for Pton or is more widespread, but I thought it would be worth repeating for the sake of posterity. Someday, i am convinced some parent will dig this thread up in the archives and be glad for the tidbit of info.</p>
<p>This seems odd to me as I thought coaches knew which of their kids got in, even if they couldn't tell them. Is a kid supposed to call their coach and tell them they got rejected?</p>
<p>All of my friends that signed early with UPenn got in today, and yet every time I come back to this thread I get more nervous.
I'm still confused as to why I'd be flying down after admissions deadlines to sign if I wasn't going to be running for my school anyhow, though. I'm still holding onto that dream, haha.</p>
<p>Ecliptica -- again, I really don't think most of what you're reading here applies to you. If you read carefully through the posts, you'll see that most of the concerns emanate from situations where there is no communication between coach and student after the student makes an ED commitment. You are not in that situation -- you are still getting a great deal of encouragement and reinforcement, so if anything, I think you should feel encouraged, not discouraged. Sleep well tonight -- I don't think you have anything to worry about!</p>