<p>Inspired by Tyler, who is choosing between a full-ride (or nearly) at Michigan and the substantially more costly Yale and Stanford, and the posters who are encouraging him to visit all of the schools and to pick the one with the best "fit." Of course, an academic fit is important--someone with a specialized interest should be sure that a school has offerings in that area of interest. And geography might be important--someone who is miserable in hot/cold weather, or in a big city/small town, should perhaps pick accordingly. But really, how important is the rest of it? Would not most college-bound kids (who are admitted to these schools) be just as fine at Stanford as Yale or Michigan? Why not say, Tyler, you have three really good choices and it is unlikely that you will make a mistake in choosing one over the others, at least with regard to "fit" (now finances might be another story).</p>
<p>This isn't black and white. Fit matters more at a small school, especially one that is isolated: a description of many LACs. Its also a question of degree: If you have a free ride somewhere that's a good fit, and nothing at your dream school, then you have to decide how much the money matters to your family. (The Gates family is probably not worried about this...) And yes, most well-adjusted people will be fine at a range of schools, so fit is really about choosing between otherwise comparable options.</p>
<p>Different people put different value on the issue of "fit." I think it mostly makes sense to factor it in, all else being equal. For example, I know a girl who applied to three of our state's major public universities. The cost factor was more or less the same. They were all a 3 to 4 hour drive from home. She visited each of them, and felt much more "at home" at one. It felt more like her kind of place, so that's where she's going.</p>
<p>I told my kid when we were looking at everything from state schools to top tier colleges, that "fit" was just a piece of the puzzle, and was probably not going to be the determinative piece. We could not afford that luxury absent hard facts. He's a pragmatic kid, and he was just fine with that. He visited colleges with an open mind, and ultimately decided he could be very happy at most of them.</p>
<p>For other people, "fit" is a very big deal. Just depends on your family and what the factors are.</p>
<p>Actually, Yale, Stanford, and Michigan are three fairly different experiences. While I thing that this particular student would probably do fine at any of them, I doubt he would really be indifferent among them. It's entirely possible that he could like Michigan best, in which case no problem. Or he could be thinking hard about how much he's willing to pay extra for what Yale or Stanford offers.</p>
<p>I do agree that we tend to overemphasize "fit" -- most good students would fit fine at a broad range of colleges. But there are differences, and it's worth paying attention to them if you have the choice. And with some less mature students, I think "fit" can make a lot of difference -- like the difference between being able to adapt to college, and not. Among my friends, I've been seeing too many examples recently of "not" to advise ignoring fit altogether.</p>
<p>I see the "fit" issue in the results. 2 of DD's friends ended up at schools that made them miserable. Both had chosen for financial fit and seemed "OK" with the rest. The red flags were ignored. Both transferred in the second semester to schools slightly less financially easy, but much more to their personalities and cultural expectations and are much happier. DD used "fit" as the final deciding factor on the final 3 after the other factors were evened out. She is happy,well adjusted, and excited to be were she is. </p>
<p>"Fit" is not the be all and end all, but needs to be a factor. It is the gut reaction as to whether you can see yourself living there happily for 4 years.</p>
<p>My D1 is a fairly adaptable person. I think she could be happy at most places, or she could find something to pick on too.:) We were not eligible for any need based aid, and most of the schools she was interested didn't offer many merit aid. Within each tier of schools (safety, match, reach, high reach) we would have tried to find a better fit. Another word, if she had been accepted into a high reach and a safety, she would have gone to the high reach, not the safety. But if she were to only have been accepted to matches, we would have selected one that had a better "fit." The cost of college is so high, I would be dishonest to say quality of education(or ranking) is not important. I also think most of colleges are so big (certainly bigger than high schools), kids could usually find some like minds. We don't usually worry if a HS is a fit before we send our kids to a HS.</p>
<p>^^^^
generally we are not shelling out big bucks for HS</p>
<p>Actually, we are shelling out big bucks for HS through our property tax. We decide where we want to live by how good of a school system a town has. To that point, because we are shelling out big bucks, if my D could go to a reach school versus a safety, she would be going to a reach school even if the safety may be a better fit for her socially.</p>
<p>I think the concept more important than fit is "lack of fit" ("unfit"? "misfit"?). I think that a large majority of college kids are young and flexible enough that they can be reasonably happy and successful at a wide range of a schools - universities, LACs, large schools, small schools, private schools, state schools.... For most kids they all can work.</p>
<p>The key thing is not to search forever to find the perfect fit but to do enough due diligence to avoid a disastrous lack of fit.</p>
<p>IMO - many kids are not quite prepared to fully evaluate fit.
We know of a number of students in my son's graduating class who transferred after one semester or one year.
These were NOT kids who chose the best financial fit. They really believed their schools were a good match. All went on to different schools and did just fine...some even to in state schools at a much lower price.
So, this says to me that fit CAN be important. But I think some kids are just fussy. Other kids THINK they know what they want and tend to see what they want to see (especially with brand name schools). Thankfully, my s was the flexible type - he'd probably be fine in most places.
One note...we had MANY girls transfer out of southern schools in my son's graduating class. A bit of a culture shock for them I guess.</p>
<p>It seems to be a strange question. Could they be happy at most schools - possibly, but would it give them the best college experience - that is another question. Ours had a choice between Duke and WashU. Same cost; chose WashU and it was the best fit. Ended up in a 4 year experience that was the ultimate. In this case it was the best fit, I am sure it would have been a great experience at Duke - but in our case, the fit was better at WashU. I am sure it would also have been a great experience at Duke. But, in my opinion, the fit did seem to make a difference.</p>
<p>Interesting you mention southern schools. We are deciding whether to fly down to have D interview for a Fellowship at a southern school and are a bit nervous about it. She has several good options already closer to home. This was an off-the-beaten track choice we tried because it had a good department in her intended major and is quite easy on the pocketbook for a private university. We wanted affordable choices. She got in with a Presidential scholarship and was invited to interview for the Fellowship. I think we will give it a shot, though it will cost us $$$ to go down there for the interview and I have a feeling she will ultimately choose someplace closer to home, which is NYC. We may be just wasting the money on the interview. We toured a few other schools in the south but didn't get to this one, which is where she ultimately got in. Don't know whether to spend the money to go down there since we do fear it will be such culture shock.</p>
<p>Yes, "fit" is over emphasized. I agree with toneranger -- kids have no ability to judge "fit" except in terms of very broad outlines in any case. They make the judgment on what they imagine the school will be based on rough impressions and wishful thinking, not on reality. Even if they could have a perfect, objective, accurate impression of a college they have not yet attended, at a time in their life when they have not yet begun to grow up -- they can't possibly know who is going to be assigned as a roommate, who will live in their dorm floor, what their first year profs will be like. The actual day-to-day experience of the student is not "the best that college X has to offer" but the roommate, the people they meet, the dorm food, the particular array of classes and profs that end up on their schedule. </p>
<p>Actually, I think the more that "fit" plays into the decision, the more potential there is for disappointment -- whereas the more the decision is based on objective or very generalized factors, such as cost, availability of majors, geographic location -- then the better chance of long term satisfaction, mainly because expectations going in are lower.</p>
<p>I suppose it all depends on the participants. I believe that you are under estimating the abilities of the kids involved. In our case I think the fit annalysis by the student was spot on. Even now, the comment from the student is "it was the best decision that I ever made". Give these kids a little bit of credit, it is their decision and their life.</p>
<p>calmom- But, aren't your "objective or very generalized factors" part of determining fit? They all went into my son's decisions about where to apply and where to go. He was fortunate because where he is met your criteria, plus his own more personal ones, such as having a high probability of getting a single room, which he got, and luckily he's on a compatible dorm floor. Naturally there are some complaints, but they're minor & nothing to write or call home about.</p>
<p>"Actually, I think the more that "fit" plays into the decision, the more potential there is for disappointment ...."</p>
<p>While I agree with Calmom's observation, I must respectfully disagree with her conclusion that fit is over-emphasized. Life is about finding a place for yourself and making the most of that situation. What better time to begin this process that when choosing an educational environment? As with any investment there is potential for disappointment. But I don't see any benefit in arguing that the student's input isn't valuable.</p>
<p>Lisares - As a former NYer, who grew up on L.I., now in Tennessee, I think about the same culture shock for my freshman daughter, except in reverse.<br>
Moving out of the NYC will be different for your daughter. First will be the food. There is no good pizza available. Italian bread is unheard of and bagels can be scarce. Cold cuts are not the same, no Boar's head. No more fried egg sandwiches, no deli's to make them and no real kaiser rolls. The water tastes different, get a filter or drink bottled.
Next, the people are very nice. At first, it is unnerving for a NYer. Being in a hurry is not an option. Service is slow because people chat everywhere, at the supermarket, the bank, etc. The check-out clerk and the teller will chat with the person in front of you for 5 minutes and then expect you to chat too. Get used to hearing, "You're not from around here, are you?" every time you talk to someone new. The harsh NY accent will get attention, and unfortunately after 20 years I still have mine. She may at first have a hard time understanding them, and they her. Blaring horns are rarely heard. That's a nice change.<br>
Church is twice on Sunday and also Wednesday night. Choosing a church is a political decision. There are more denominations than I ever knew existed. You are invited to attend everybody's church if you are undecided. Catholics and Jews are a minority although the schools probably have accommodations.<br>
Things are more low-key and laid back. If your D can appreciate the differences, she'll be fine. If on the other hand she comes spouting off that things in NY are better and why don't they do this or that, it will be hard. People don't like to be told that their ways are wrong or backward or no good.<br>
For my daughter, I worry about how she would fare with Northeastern kids who live a very different lifestyle. She was raised in Denver until 7th grade and now lives here. We get back to the Island to see family once a year or so and the kids I see there are less respectful and less modest than the southern kids. They are more brand conscious and money judgmental than here. Here you can have a friend who lives in a mansion and one in a trailer, and they live down the street from each other.<br>
The kids here fish and hunt and get their picture in the paper with their first deer. Four wheeling is a blast and most kids have done that. Everybody's gotten a licking, whether from their parents or grandparents. Yes sir and Yes ma'am are still used. Prayers before meals are normal. If Jesus offends you, it will be really hard. Christianity is one religion, football is the other. Think Friday Night Lights. It is really like that. A 10,000 seat stadium for a high school of 500 and every seat filled for football. High School football clips make the local news.<br>
If you have any questions let me know.</p>
<p>Wow. I am speechless. A great deal of food for thought. My immediate feeling is absolutely no way, no how would this work. However, I spent three of my college years in the very different (for me) environment of Salt Lake City, Utah (at the University of Utah), but that is a very large and cosmopolitan, secular school with a med school, law school, etc, and lots of folks from all over the place. I do remember my landlord saying to me:"So, uh...you're Jewish, right? So, you eat matzoh, is that right?" I was extremely exotic to some of the people around me. I guess it was an interesting and broadening experience in some ways.</p>
<p>I want you to know that I absolutely love it here and you couldn't pay me enough to move back to long Island. I came south slowly, first to the west coast of Florida, which is more mid-westerners, than the Ft. Luaderdale and Orlando areas, then to Denver. I don't know how I would have made out if my culture change was all at once.</p>
<p>
Yes, but I am talking about broad outlines, like buying loose-fitting clothes like an overcoat or sweat pants rather than shopping for the sharpest looking, closest form fitting clothes. Wit that sort of criteria, a lot of schools are going to fit. For example, one criteria my daughter had for colleges was "must offer Russian". That was the language she had studied and what she wanted to continue with. But there are a lot of different colleges that offer Russian -- and presumably once that criteria was set, most of the resulting choices would meet it.</p>