<p>For many kids, fit is not important. They will fit anywhere and be happy. If you want to see how well a school "fits" its kids, look at stats like 6 year graduation rates and % of freshmen who return. Most kids who go to college have the brains to succeed. It's the other things that overwhelm them and cause a "misfit".</p>
<p>I think whether "fit" matters depends on the kid---there's no one-size-fits-all here, one way or the other. I imagine it's true that for a lot of kids it's just not an issue---they'll adapt to pretty much any environment, find friends, get their work done (or not). But for other kids it matters a lot. As a parent you've got to know your kid. As a kid, you've got to know yourself. </p>
<p>I've visited quite a few colleges of varying kinds with my D. I have no doubt she's the kind for whom "fit" matters. Some schools leave her cold, for reasons she's usually able to articulate with admirable clarity--and in articulating them, it sometimes reveals things about her that neither of us saw so clearly before, and that helps refine the search. Some schools would be just fine. Some just really turn her on because she sees opportunities there that may not be available at other schools. In the end her list of schools will be her list, a reflection of her personality, interests, strengths, and character. It's been a learning process for both of us, and a good one.</p>
<p>Lisares</p>
<p>Is the school in a big city or small town? All the south isn't the same... ie Atlanta and New Orleans are very different than say Charleston, SC or Knoxville, TN.</p>
<p>As a Southern Jewish woman (all my life, yes there are some!), I am hesitant about sending my children to these small southern LACs that are fairly isolated. Not only are there not many Jews, most aren't very diverse at all in any way. That isn't necessarily a bad thing but I am not sure I want my Jewish child to be the diversity!</p>
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Some schools leave her cold, for reasons she's usually able to articulate with admirable clarity--and in articulating them, it sometimes reveals things about her that neither of us saw so clearly before, and that helps refine the search.
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I think "fit" is important - I just don't believe it can be readily assessed based on a quick visit, perusal of a viewbook or web pages, etc. My own UG experience (many years ago) was very different than anything I expected, so how could I have correctly anticipated its fit? I think the exercise of evaluating fit is useful; as noted above, one might then articulate the unrecognized variables that one considers important. However, correctly determining whether an institution actually has or does not have those qualities is not readily done.</p>
<p>To a certain extent, however, the process is self-fulfilling. If a student decides a place has the right fit, they may be more likely to make it work.</p>
<p>Actually, many applicants probably UNDER-emphasize "fit".</p>
<p>A typical strategy is to apply to at least one school, or more often several, in each of 3 categories based on publicized rankings of selectivity: "safety", "match", and "reach". Then you choose from among the most selective schools that accept you. "Fit" becomes a tie-breaker.</p>
<p>In fact, for many students the match school(s) might be a better "fit" than the "reach" (economically, emotionally or otherwise).</p>
<p>In my opinion, a better strategy for many students would be something like this:
identify the features most important to you, such as size or geographic location.
Then apply to enough schools that meet these criteria, somewhat regardless of selectivity, to maximize your chances of being accepted to at least one. This could mean applying to no safety schools, and possibly to no reach schools. Or it might mean applying to 10 highly selective LACs. Or it might mean applying to only one school, such as one with good aid, a quick turn-around on applications, in a location you happen to like.</p>
<p>LastMinuteMom...appreciate the reply. The school in question is in NC, an hour from Chapel Hill...but not IN Chapel Hill. D applied to Chapel Hill but, no surprise, didn't get in. Very very hard to get in there. We were recommended to look into this particular school by a friend in the area who is actually an academic expert on southern Jewish life. There is a small Jewish community at the school and they are striving to diversify. But you are right, I'm not sure my kid needs to be the diversity. We are not observant, it's the culture. I grew up in a small northern town with very few Jews and it is indeed very different from life in NYC, where I moved just after college. I was always the only Jewish person in my class growing up. I said Christian prayers at school. I was the recipient of a certain amount of anti-semitism, but it was the 50s and it was common then. However D has always lived here, gone to Jewish summer camp, etc. Her public school is highly diverse and that's great, we love that. But southern girls who reputedly wear pearls to class? That would be really odd. Is that a legend, by the way? Pearls to class???? And on the topic of southern friendliness and niceness, when we visited Chapel Hill we went shopping on Franklin Street and the saleswoman kept one shop open for us an extra hour because we hadn't had a chance to try everything on. Never, never would that have happened in NYC! I couldn't believe it.</p>
<p>Fit is important, but each family/student probably has vastly different ideas of how to define fit. For our family, perceived financial value was the number one criteria, largely because we are a family of savers and extremely frugal about financial decisions. At the same time, we have our quirks about how we perceive value relative to another family. We gladly pay for unlimited travel abroad, but have no interest in paying up for small class size, which might be very important to another family. Our kids share our values, which isn't surprising since we raised them.</p>
<p>We gave each child skin in the game by requiring them to pay 10% of the cost of their college's fixed costs (tuition, room/board, books) and then said they could go anywhere they wanted from the most expensive private to the cheapest public. Both chose a cheap public (although not the absolute cheapest since that would have been community college). Both kids have more than enough money in the bank to fund their 10% at any college without any loans, and we had our end covered as well. </p>
<p>S1 could have found a better social fit than where he chose to go, but it wasn't worth the extra $$s to him and he is more than satisfied with his choice overall. S2 chose a school we believe will be a fabulous social fit, but it has only a so-so academic reputation. His major, however, is demanding and he intends to get a great education regardless of what "most" students are doing. </p>
<p>Neither kid is an academic super star, so being surround by other academically gifted kids was not necessary. In addition, both are self-starters and self-motivated enough that they don't need any hand holding. Given those two factors, most colleges can be made to fit.</p>
<p>Yes...at some southern schools, girls wear pearls to classes.
And pair them with sundresses at football games.</p>
<p>Scroll down on this forum and read the thread about University of Tulsa. Some post that they love it. But others who are there because of the merit aid given to NMF can't stand it. Yes, fit is important.</p>
<p>I am sure the "fit" issue varies tremendously between students. Some are much more adaptable than others, and it may not be obvious beforehand. I am often struck by how much self knowledge is really required to make a good college decision, and wonder how many 17 and 18 year olds have the self knowledge that we wish they could bring to the decision. When I try to look back 40 years or so, I'm not sure how much self knowledge I had myself.</p>
<p>I am sympathetic to the view that rather than finding optimal fit, you should be more concerned about avoiding misfits. What we all hope for our kids (I think) is that they graduate in 4 years. It would be nice for them to have had a great "college experience" and it would be nice if they could find a job (with benefits) after graduating, but first they've got to graduate. Any misfit that knocks them off the graduate in 4 years track can be very expensive, both in extra tuition, foregone earnings, or failure to graduate at all. Though this is probably less of an issue for CC kids, the U.S. has a much lower college graduation rate than it's college attendance rate --- many more kids start college than end up graduating.</p>
<p>I agree that kids can be poor judges of fit. It's a lot to ask of them: most of them have never really made an independent decision, and have never lived away from home. So asking them to make an independent decision about where and how to live away from home is asking a lot. I see three possible sources of error: looking too much for the comfortable (which may be quickly outgrown), looking too much for the fantasy (which may not be who the kid really is), and looking for that one perfect program (that may not be what the kid wants next year). None of them is likely to be fatal in most cases, but I have seen some real dislocations from all of them over the past few years.</p>
<p>On the other hand, parents aren't necessarily so hot at judging fit, either. Not that I would ever do this -- perish the thought! -- but objectively I see my friends putting a lot of their own hopes and anxieties into their advice to their children. And I had one friend who practically lay down in the tracks to prevent his child from choosing Amherst over Williams, if you can imagine that. The father was convinced that Williams was a "fit", and Amherst wasn't. It took an intervention to convince him that, notwithstanding two or three discernible differences between the schools, no one but he and each college's marketers actually cared about them.</p>
<p>Lisa - I didn't mean to frighten you. I just want to give you some of the differences. Life is slower in the South as it is anywhere outside of the NY area. Sunday is church day and many businesses will be closed. Not much is open 24 hours outside of the cities. There are not as many museums, concerts and cultural opportunities. Transportation may be an issue. Often poor or no bus service. Going from doing anything at any time, to having not much to do may bore a NYC kid. Definitely look at the school, but also realize what your D may miss from home. Prepare her if she comes. It will be a wonderful time for her if she is open to accepting the difference. I can see how some NY kids could absolutely hate the change, but many thrive. I still love the slower lifestyle, then again, I'm told I'm "old".</p>
<p>^^^
Everybody has a different experience, but from the girls I talked to, it was much more than just a slower experience in the south.
The main complaint I heard was from girls who went to schools with greek scenes. Dressing up every night for events...competition based on looks and dress ...old line fraternity behavior. Also, old line southern conservative views on how girls should "behave" caused some problems. Independent, feisty (and let's face it...sometimes loud) northern girls who like to hang out in jeans and sweatshirts may have a problem adjusting to these expectations. But I do also know some girls who did just fine by either avoiding this scene or adapting...</p>
<p>I know too many kids who have transferred to dismiss fit. Especially since sometimes the schools seem so much alike academically.</p>
<p>Depends on the kid for sure. I had one who would have been happy anywhere- just that kind of kid- and others who were pretty particular. I'm not saying that you shouldn't try to find a school that fits for the kid who'd be happy anywhere- just that there will likely be few issues on the table at decision time.</p>
<p>From my kids friends I have observed the following:</p>
<p>Single sex vs. coed- not as big a deal as most kids think</p>
<p>Rural vs. urban- not a big deal if the rural school is huge (think Cornell) but a very big deal if the rural school is small. At the huge rural schools there is always something to do- poetry readings, string quartet performances, political debates, interesting speakers, etc. so even a kid who is not interested in football or fraternities can be busy every weekend. Not always so at small rural schools.</p>
<p>Preppy vs. "alternative"- in the eye of the beholder, but a kid who is looking for a strong arts, music, literature scene may be unhappy at a school with a more 1950's college culture.</p>
<p>Pre-professional vs. academic-- hugely important at a small school, not important at a big one (since you will find all types at the big one, even if you have to look hard to discover where the Renaissance Society meets or how to join the Latin Debate club.)</p>
<p>My two cents. Of all my kids friends who have transferred or first took a time out and then transferred, I can't recall a single one who cited the academics as being an issue. It was usually, "I was so happy 9-5 Monday through Friday and then was so miserable on the weekends with nothing to do and nobody to do it with'. To me- that's fit-- some colleges make it easier for a certain kid to find a niche, and others would make it very tough.</p>
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I have a feeling she will ultimately choose someplace closer to home
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<p>Fit can be a family thing: there are many, many parents who do not want their kids more than an hour or two from home, regardless of what the kid might want.</p>
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which is NYC...
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<p>Much different animal. There are legions of New Yorkers who could just not live anywhere else, period.</p>
<p>As a woman in Kentucky who was born in South Carolina and lived for 15 years in Mississippi, I cringe at some of the generalization about "the south" in this thread. One cannot extrapolate one county in Tennessee to the entire south any more than one can extrapolate the entire northeast from New York City (or Bangor, MN).</p>
<p>I spent lots of time on the campus of the University of South Carolina and can't recall a single instance of pearls in class. Football game attire was usually team tshirts and jeans...
Here in Louisville, KY there is a substantial catholic population, but in S.C, there were very few. New Orleans is heavily catholic. I very, very, rarely encounter public prayer and no one I know goes to church twice on Sundays.....</p>
<p>I am not saying that the descriptions I am contradicting are inaccurate, just that it is not possible to color a "southern" experience. Charleston, Atlanta, Mephis, New Orleans and Louisville are profoundly different cities with very little in common. The rural areas are VERY different from the cities, etc.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>I cringe at some of the generalization(s) about "the south" ....<<</p> </blockquote>
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<p>Me to. But perhaps I'm just projecting my reaction to the equally unfair generalizations about New Yorkers, gays, immigrants, etc.</p>
<p>How can you truly be happy if you don't "fit" in? It is not fun when everybody thinks differently than you do, when you have to think about what you are saying so as not to shock or gross out or offend or whatever.
please do not minimize how extreme many new yorker's view of the world is, or the way they express that view.
I walked on to many a college campus and just knew that it wouldn't work for my child. It is my responsibility as a parent to suss out the environment and not put them in a situation that would make them be miserable.</p>
<p>I don't feel like reading these replies, but:</p>
<p>Fit is overemphasized. A student can fit in at any school, there will always be different types of people to mesh with.</p>
<p>My two cents: A student can probably survive at any school but "a student can fit in at any school"? I really don't think so.</p>