Is it a High Crime?? Please tell me

Parent Cafe
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<p>I’ll offer a contrary opinion, and recommend that you treat her like a real adult. Your daughter probably thinks “I’m an adult now, and I can do what I want to do”; but that’s an immature person’s rationale. If your daughter’s hypothetical “career” employer saw her work performance was sub-par (couple of Ds), she’d be fired, or at minimum face probation and much closer scrutiny. Employers don’t coddle employees, nor should parents do so when their financial-dependent kids fail to meet reasonable expectations. Your daughter needs your parental “warning, and probationary period” to get grades up. Lesson learned now could avoid a destructive experience in “real life” workplace. I think your daughter shouldn’t have a PT job, unless directly related to her major, and she shouldn’t leave campus on weekends. Her schoolwork is suffering; Cut her allowance down too to keep her away from distractions and closer to studies. Can she survive relative inconvenience of losing car - isn’t there a campus shuttle bus?</p>

<p>I also want to acknowledge your hurt feelings as legitimate. Your daughter is being disrespectful. If your daughter is within 20 minutes of your house, it’s appropriate for her to call, say hello, and see if she can do a quick visit. She’s sneaking around; that’s not adult-like behavior.</p>

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<p>"Your daughter is being disrespectful. If your daughter is within 20 minutes of your house, it’s appropriate for her to call, say hello, and see if she can do a quick visit. "</p>

<p>I don’t think daughter disagreed to this, number one. Problem was parents wanted daughter to spend the night at their house whenever she was in town, and forbid her to spend the night at her bf’s. THIS lead daughter into sneaking around…not a lack of willingness to call parents or say hello for a quick visit.</p>

<p>Also, I’d like to mention that students who go to school 20 minutes from home are not perpetualy calling their parents and asking if they can visit their parents. If D is in the neighborhood frequently, it’s not necessary she see her parents every time. </p>

<p>Again, it’s no use confounding issues…if parents are concerned D does not visit enough, they should stipulate how often they’d like to see her. Arbitrary distinctions like “if she’s within 20 minutes, she has to stop by” are unnecessary. If parents are concerned about grades, they need to ask her to lay out a plan for her to improve her grades and follow through (independent of how much they hate the boyfriend). Etc.</p>

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I don’t think you’re “over-reacting,” I just think you sense a volatile situation that could become worse. If so, I agree, based upon my own observations of a family we know that’s dealing none too well with an eerily similar situation. Watching a family you care about disintegrate before your very eyes is heartbreaking. </p>

<p>For what it’s worth, I think it’s unlikely your daughter set out to purposely hurt or disrespect you, and I’m certain it’s not your intent or desire to hurt her. Clearly, you don’t want to end her education or hurt her in any way. So consider carefully how you frame her choices. If you require her to choose “the boy or your education” or “the boy or us,” be sure you’re fully prepared for her to choose him and the potential consequences to all concerned. In my experience, when a person is behaving foolishly, backing them into a corner doesn’t suddenly endow them with wisdom.</p>

<p>It sounds as though you’re setting the stage for a power struggle with your d, if you’re not already in one. IME, power struggles are pointless and dangerous. The struggle for control usually obscures the issues that sparked it. Not only do you stand to lose the battle, you may well unwittingly create and lose a nuclear war. My heart goes out to you. My advice is to dispense with the power struggle and put your relationship with your daughter front and center.</p>

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<p>As someone who is looking from her perspective, you are trying to show way too much control over her. She is an adult now, and you should treat her like one. Obviously if she is wasting your money away at college, partying, dropping out, etc, you have a right to tell her thats not OK and you’re not paying.</p>

<p>But seriously? She’s an adult who isn’t living with you anymore and she’s not allowed to stay with her own boyfriend that she’s been with for three years? You need to let her do her own thing.</p>

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Am I mistaken in my belief that all schools set minimum gpa requirements, and that students who don’t meet those requirements are placed on academic probation with a set timeframe in which to improve the gpa or face xx-consequences? Presumably that serves (or so we hope) as “lesson learned now” rather than later in the workplace, no?</p>

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<p>^No, I would disagree with that entirely.</p>

<p>It’s exceedingly difficult to get kicked out of some schools. At UMCP, you must fall below a 1.0. That means you can get straight Ds for your entire college career and never gp on academic probation.</p>

<p>That said, straight Ds are really, really far from any employer’s (or parent’s) cup of tea, and I find it perfectly reasonable to set higher standards than that.</p>

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<p>Adulthood means paying your own way. Often we may have a transitional period, where the young adult is paying for pretty much everything, but the parents might still pay the phone (family plan) or the car insurance (multiple car discount), but eventually the young adult would reimburse the parents or get a separate phone/insurance plan. </p>

<p>Adulthood does not mean parents paying for college while the student gets D’s. If a student accepts the parents’ money for school, then the parent has a big say in the student’s life, but that, in my opinion, does not include who or how and when the person dates. That’s personal. I would not be doling out enough $ for the kid to use mine to entertain a boyfriend/girlfriend, and if the grades are insufficient, then no more $. Like others have pointed out, in the real world you get fired for poor performance. </p>

<p>If kids want no strings attached, then cut the strings and go on your own.</p>

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<p>They do, but as UMCP says they can be exceedingly tolerant. I do agree that the parent in this case should tug on the purse strings really hard; this daughter is not only sexually promiscuous but not performing up to academic standards. Her sexual mores may be her own concern (although since she’s taking money from her parents she should be willing to be much more accommodating on this account) but her grades – paid for by her PARENTS – are definitely not. Her parents likely cannot afford to throw away good money after bad to fund her slacking off and screwing around in college; if she doesn’t shape up – and shape up FAST – the parents should bring her back home and monitor her more closely until she’s willing to grow up and act her age.</p>

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<p>^The concern with that post, though, is that it assumes D is “screwing around” and that’s why she’s getting bad grades.</p>

<p>A lot of people get bad grades in college and it’s not because they’re having too much sex or partying too much or otherwise “don’t care enough” about school. </p>

<p>They may lack organizational skills, may be suffering from anxiety, depression, or ADHD, may lack study skills, etc. That’s why it’s important to discuss this not only honestly but OPENLY with your D…focusing on what you THINK it is or other areas you’re upset with (bf, not seeing you enough, ‘promiscuity-but-let’s-remember-a-lot-people-don’t-consider-sex-with-a-bf-of-three-years-promiscuous’) will simply hinder the quest for effective solutions and break down communication with your D. There are a variety of issues here and there’s evidence that parents are hyperfocusing on one element of D’s life that may or may not contribute to poor grades.</p>

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<p>College is a priviledge and one for which parents are not obligated to pay. I see nothing wrong with attaching the caveat that students must have a C average to continue parental payments. A “couple” Ds in one semester requires a “warning shot” from parents. IT’s an individual decision if parents decide to pull the financial plug immediately or fire the warning shot and give the student a semester to get back on track.</p>

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<p>I have less of a problem with saying I’ll pay for college IF you work at college. The issue of the grades is perhaps a valid thing to tie to paying tuition. You are paying for your kid to get an education so if they aren’t pursuing that goal (with working at school), then you needn’t pay for that goal either.</p>

<p>But to me that is entirely separate from using tuition to control their dating behavior, get more respect, influence social behavior and such. What does that have to do with paying tuition? It just seems like a means of manipulation to me.</p>

<p>Sure the OP throws out the point about the D at the end…but as if an afterthought. It was the last thing she could think of. She oculd have as easily added, “oh yeah and she’s disheveled too”. Clearly not her real issue and it strikes me as so bizarre that her focus is on the boyfriend and not her grades that frankly, I don’t even believe she got a couple of Ds…I think it was thrown in there to get more support for her side of the issue. Her REAL hang up is the boyfriend, the not visiting, the staying at boyfriend’s house. Good lord- why is THAT more important that GPA? That is what she sees as a ‘high crime’ worthy of no college support as punishment. That part I fail to understand.</p>

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Really? You can graduated with a 1.0? Interesting. The minimums at our childrens’ schools were/are higher, but even so, I wouldn’t recommend anyone strive for a minimum if they can exceed it. :wink:

Hmm. I agree, but I’m thinking the students aren’t clueless on this point. My guess is none were admitted to college having merely met the minimum hs diploma requirements.

Okay, but why? Is it a matter of simply parent v. child, or rather one of who pays the bills? If the child pays the bills, do you think it perfectly reasonable that he sets the standards? (Not a trick question; just trying to be sure I don’t misunderstand your point.)</p>

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<p>The D’s are the issue. What your D does with her time is her business. BUT you are making an investment in her future. Whenever you make an investment, you get to set what you believe the return on investment should be (grades) and you have the right to put your money somewhere else if the investment is not meeting your expectations. Your daughter can pull student loans and live off of that money if she is content with her effort.</p>

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<p>Do you think your D was maybe a little bit spoiled when she was younger? I am not asking this to be unkind, I just wonder if she is just behaving the way she always has? If your D is able to hold down a part time job then she should be contributing to the cost of her education (even if it is not a financial burden for you). She should also take on small student loans to help as well. Maybe if she has a few chips in the game, she will understand how important it is to stay focused. Doing both of these things would be a way that she can show you she is becoming an adult.</p>

<p>I would also lay off the bf thing. She has shown she will not listen to you. She just may be the type that needs to go down the road of hard knocks (I have a S like this) and it is hard for you to sit back and watch. When she does become an adult, she will be more likely to look for the things that are important in a bf and maybe the current guy won’t look quite as good. If she is allowed to stay a child, her bf preferences and actions will tend to be child-like.</p>

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<p>My in-laws live about 1 mile from my sister; when we gather for something at my sisters’ house we never tell my mother-in-law because she gets upset that we didn’t stop by. We know they’d like us to but we don’t so we have to hide it just like your daughter. Now, my in-laws are not supporting us in any way but some say what we do is wrong also. In some ways you have created a liar in your daughter, sometimes the path to least resistance wins, even after you’re 50 years old!</p>

<p>I agree with the grades being the key issue for discussion here. If you pay for most everything why does she need to work? Clearly she’s not handling classes, work, and boyfriend very well.</p>

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<p>If OP thinks parents paying for college = “love” and her D’s not coming home when she’s right in the neighborhood as “lack of love in return”–it would explain her hurt feelings. But of course money does not equal love, and an adult D wanting to run her own life (muddled though her decisions may sometimes appear) is not lack of love for the parents. </p>

<p>It is understandable to feel hurt when adult children remove themselves, but it’s natural. They are learning – not just from college books, but from every decision good or bad they are making. It’s understandable that they would prefer their own lives now that they are experimenting with more choices. </p>

<p>What seems to be happening (unless much more time and angry words start flying around) is that both OP and D love each other and are having some trouble adjusting to the new realities. If the parents really accept the bf visiting d at college, why would there be a problem for her to visit him and stay with him in hometown? </p>

<p>I am looking at 3 items that may be intertwined. Perhaps OP should consider reasonable consequences. As many have posted, there are several issues these parents can deal with:</p>

<p>1) Grades. With those D’s, the student needs to be accountable for how she is actively correcting the situation. What plans has she made, actions has she taken to improve grades? This is not a matter of love, or disrespect, or disagreements about boyfriends. It’s simply the ground rules for many parents who are footing the bill for their adult children’s education. It means the grounds for continued financial support into adulthood is conditional, but fair. No one is forcing the student to take the money if he/she doesn’t want to take advantage of the subsidized education.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Choosing a boyfriend. The parents may have to realize (as we all do) that the consequences of selecting a cheating, lying boyfriend will be felt, all too painfully, by the d herself. It would be wonderful if we could spare our kids–and we certainly do try to point out the pitfalls. But unless you think your child is in grave danger, she may need to learn romantic lessons the hardest way possible. For this, I can truly sympathize. But it’s not your consequence to give.</p></li>
<li><p>Not visiting, or lying to parents. By hurting parents, the adult S or D may find themselves besieged. Angry calls. Threats. Tears. Emotional upheaval on the home-front. Favors not offered. No more forgiven loans, trips on school breaks, gifts. No more closeness and confidences. If the family was always very close and loving, this last part may disturb the D. If the D has spending ways, the lack of extra $$ may pinch. But many young adults feel (at least during their 20s) that the price of freedom is worth it. </p></li>
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<p>There is no forcing kids to suddenly have mature wisdom, nor can we force them to love us for what we have spent on them.</p>

<p>My vote: not a high crime</p>

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<p>Not a high crime, but I do think I’d find it hurtful if my 20-year-old child, who goes to school two hours away, came back to his/her hometown and didn’t even call. That would feel like a slap in the face, irrespective of grades or boyfriends. It does seem disrespectful to me, and inconsiderate of the mom’s feelings. Not something to cut off financial support over, but something to discuss seriously (seriously, not in anger).</p>

<p>The d wants to spend the night with her bf, and the mom is saying that it’s not all right with her. OP, I suggest that this isn’t the battle to pick - it will only lead to more secretive behavior. I wouldn’t tie my financial support of a kid’s education to an issue involving a boyfriend (other than personal safety). The Ds are very troubling, though - that’s a lot of money to hand over to someone who isn’t willing to work hard enough to succeed. I’d have no trouble tying my financial support to the kid working hard at school. A college education is not an entitlement.</p>

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<p>I’m having deja vu as I read a very similar thread to this a few months ago, almost the exact same issue and with the car. I don’t remember the grade issue though.<br>
I’m sure you’ve heard this before, by making your feelings known repeatedly about the bf, she is just going to dig in her heels. As long as there isn’t any abuse there, I think you have to back off.</p>

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<p>american girls like to drink whiskey and suck milk at the same time. you’re paying for her education so she can get an education, not so she can fool around with boyfriends. let her know what grades are acceptable and consequences of unacceptable results. it’s up to her.</p>

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<p>I’d just point out to the OP that you’ve pretty much backed your d. into this situation by your overt disapproval of the bf. Given that the relationship has extended over 3 years, I think you’ve got to realize that whether you like him or not, this bf is part of your daughter’s life-- and your attitude means that when she’s in town she’s got to choose between spending time with you and/or with him.</p>

<p>And lets face it – if that choice has to be made, then a young person is going to choose their partner over parents every single time. What she gets from spending time with him is something that you can’t give and you can’t compete with. </p>

<p>If you accepted the bf and treated him cordially – and let your daughter choose where to sleep – then your d. could let you know when she would be in town, come by your house for dinner & a visit – and (most likely) end up sleeping over at the bf’s house. If the bf wa welcome in your house for dinner and a visit, the visit would last longer… because d. wouldn’t be in no particular hurry to leave to meet him. In other words, they both might hang out and chat for awhile, watch t.v. at your house, etc. </p>

<p>When, as a parent, you make rules that your kids cannot reasonably abide by, then of course you are going to be lied to – it is really the only choice they have. They aren’t lying to be deceitful – they are lying to spare your feelings or at least avoid an inevitable fight. </p>

<p>Obviously there are some rules that are non-negotiable, even if the kid does not have the willingness or ability to comply. But on that, I’d side with the other parents who have pointed out that 2 D’s are unacceptable for a student wishing continued financial support through college. (In my view that wasn’t an issue of parental control; it was just a condition attached to the “mommy scholarship” )</p>