^^^ this post makes a lot of sense and i think it is the right decision.
Hi, @ColoFatherOf3,
As a fellow “consumer of higher education” I understand your point of view. The discrepancy you point out did influence our D’s decision, but in a different way than you mention. Our D scored very well on the PSAT as a sophomore and, as a result, received lots of enticing mail from OU and other schools that try to attract high achieving students. The summer following her sophomore year, we started doing some college visits. We included OU mostly out of curiosity and because we were in the general area with other visits anyway. Much to our surprise, we fell in love with the campus and the educational and EC opportunities. Our D decided that she really wanted to go to OU even if she DIDN’T become a NMF. However, being OOS and non-NMF would have been a financial stretch. We told our D that she had $X in her college fund. She was welcome to use it how she saw fit - some of her choices would leave her with $ left over, others would require loans. She knew that if she prepared for the PSAT, when she took it as a junior she stood a decent chance of being a NMSF and ultimately a NMF. She was right. She raised her score 17 points and went on to be a NMF and happily accepted OU’s generous package. That was her choice. Just as it is OU’s choice to attract NMFs with their package. I can understand how it might seem silly to place so much weight on a single test, but that is the game OU chooses to play and our D chose to play along. Just as you and your daughter may choose to play the game other schools have as it relates to doling out merit money.
Your daughter is clearly very high achieving and will earn significant merit at many colleges/universities. If OU seems like a good fit for her - even if she didn’t get their highest merit package - I hope she will seriously consider it. There are many, many opportunities for all strong students like your daughter, not just NMFs at OU - the honors college is just one example. Our D is very happy at OU.
Best of luck in your journey as you explore schools for your daughter. She is very fortunate to have a caring dad like you to share her journey.
》》 I’m continually amazed by the way some folks feel they need to put down others in order to make them selves feel better.《《
Might want to take a look in the mirror there.
》》 Our HS had 3 NMFs this year and they all have a lower rank than my D, so I do know that NMF is not the only indicator of success. 《《
So class rank is the only indicator?
My daughter is a NMSF that was recently deferred by Harvard. She started wearing Harvard t-shirts since 4th grade and worked as hard as she could for the past 8 years to excel in academics, music, chess, volunteering, etc. Even though she had outstanding grades, outstanding test scores, spent countless hours taking music lessons and practicing her instrument to be first chair, taking chess lessons, spending her weekends at chess tournaments, spending her nights and weekends at home doing homework instead of socializing, volunteering and tutoring and holding leadership positions it still wasn’t good enough. We would have paid when most people go there for free or for a minimum amount. I don’t buy the “NM” is only a test (my daughter started taking the ACT in 7th grade through Duke Tip so she’s been prepping for that long)…most finalists probably have the same resume that my daughter has and most have applied to selective colleges and probably have been deferred or rejected. In the end, It’s actually nice to have somewhere to go where you will be appreciated for your hard work which involves more than just taking a test. I don’t believe class rank is always right either, because we know tons of cry babies who go see teachers to get their grades bumped which my daughter has never done.
@albert69 thanks, i’ll be sure to take a long look in the mirror. As with most people, I tend to throw back barbs at people who throw them at me, Human nature I guess.
Is there something in my post that suggests class rank is the only indicator of success? No, just trying to point out that NMF status isn’t the only indicator. I could go on and on about all the other comparisons, but that would sound defensive. My daughter is the Val of her class and was voted “most intelligent/likely to succeed” by her peers. Her peers know who the top student is and a single test on a single day doesn’t define anyone. All the top students talk about how they did on an AP test or who they go to for help with AP chem or AP Calc BC. There is no surprises when it comes to these things within a given high school class.
Again, I’m not trying to put down any student who has worked hard to get the NMF title. It is a great accomplishment and well earned by anyone who obtained it. I’m just trying to point out that if you use that single test as the sole criteria by which to award $100k, it may be going overboard and you may be missing out on some other great students who don’t have that title.
I suspect it is good to have a place like OU for students who have the NMF title. It just means that those who don’t have the title (but have similar high stats in all other respects) will likely not consider OU. Given there seems to be only one school in the nation like that, it doesn’t have a major impact.
I’ve learned from this post what I was looking to learn (and what I suspected all along). High stat kids without the NMF title would likely feel out of place given the major scholarship differential and other perks at OU. That is not meant to disrespect OU. OU is a fine school who greatly values the NM competition.
@ColoFatherOf3 Vote with your feet. Only thing to do. It is annoying tho.
@Tschoonover44, I agree with you completely. I have yet to meet a NMF who just happens to be a lucky test taker and is otherwise a complete slouch in life. Those I have met are incredibly talented and well-rounded young adults. One of the reasons OU and other universities heavily base merit aid on test scores rather than rank and GPA is because they have figured out that grades are often inflated and frequently based on things completely unrelated to mastery of the content - ie, “If you bring in a box of kleenex for the classroom, you get extra credit.” What?!? At least with the PSAT, it is a common assessment given to all students on the same day. Granted, unfortunate things can happen on that single opportunity, but NMSC offers a process to state your case if needed. One can argue that the PSAT/NMF process is not a perfect in any way, shape or form, but at least it provides a somewhat standardized way for universities to look at applicants. And that is their choice.
Best of luck to your D. It sounds like she is on her way to continuing to doing amazing things. I hope Harvard works out for her. 
@Wlmom94, just to clear up some aspects of your post I didn’t quite agree with, in case future readers might get the wrong impression about how PSAT scores are used.
For this comment:
“One of the reasons OU and other universities heavily base merit aid on test scores rather than rank and GPA is because they have figured out that grades are often inflated and frequently based on things completely unrelated to mastery of the content”
I agree completely. However, the “test scores” used for this are generally the actual SAT or ACT test scores, not the PSAT test score. In fact, since applications don’t ask for the PSAT score itself, they have no idea what your actual PSAT score is. And, depending on what State you reside in, it may be a “top 97% score” or a “top 99.5% score”.
For this comment:
“One can argue that the PSAT/NMF process is not a perfect in any way, shape or form, but at least it provides a somewhat standardized way for universities to look at applicants.”
Again, most universities do not use this process to assess applicants for the very reasons I stated above. Instead, they use the actual SAT or ACT (and sometimes subject SAT) scores along with many other things that comprise the entirety of a students accomplishments during their high school careers.
NMSF (and NMF) status is generally listed as an award or competition won at the State or National level (depending on how you view it).
Of course any university can choose what ever method they want for assessing students. They just don’t use PSAT scores as they don’t have the actual scores, they only know if a student was NMSF (and eventually NMF), NM Commended or neither.
I wonder why they dont just do the NM thing using any SAT taken in 11th grade?
@ColoFatherOf3 do also keep in mind that to qualify for NMF status you do need a minimum SAT score and they consider your HS grades in the process as well. So, it would be highly unusual for a kid to qualify by a chance good score. In general, NMF kids are highly qualified and well rounded students. I’m sorry your child did not meet this qualification, however I’m sure OU could provide a quality environment, though your D will have other choices as well (as do the OU NMF scholars.)
@ColoFatherOf3 Thanks for helping clarify areas where I might have been misunderstood. I know that PSAT isn’t used or reported to colleges/universities. Because this discussion is about NMF I mentioned the PSAT because it is first the PSAT and then a confirming SAT score - among other documentation - that leads to NMF.
I stand by my statement: “One can argue that the PSAT/NMF process is not a perfect in any way, shape or form, but at least it provides a somewhat standardized way for universities to look at applicants.” You mention that most universities don’t use this process. I was referring to the universities who choose to award merit based on NMSF/NMF.
The criteria a specific college uses can seem arbitrary, but OU has chosen NMF. Other Us choose GPA, which benefits the kids who come from grade inflated high schools and penalizes those who don’t. Still others use only weighted GPAs, which differ greatly from high school to high school from ones that give a 2.0 bump for APs to ones that do not weight at all.
My point is that no way is “fair” to everyone and the best thing to do is to see which universities are more likely to award merit in the same area where your student is strong and just go with that. For this student, I can see why Oklahoma might not be the best choice.
@ColoFatherOf3 , I completely understand your point. When I started college 27 years ago, I attended school with a group of national merit scholars on full rides while I was on a much smaller merit scholarship. I had similar stats besides the PSAT score, but that single test score was still the big criteria for the university I attended. I still kick myself for not studying for that test and probably took it out on my poor daughter with study sessions since she was in 7th grade. Those NMF students deserved their scholarship years ago and I deservered my smaller scholarship as well, so I have no hard feelings…it’s really my own fault for being a little bit lazy in HS. So I don’t agree with the concept that a student is penalized for not being a NMF. Those kids certainly earned their reward. I also don’t want to imply your daughter is like me…she sounds like a much better student than I was. I also believe you’re right that she is a comparable student to the NMFs and based on my college friends from 20+ years ago probably much better than some.
I do think we both question the “strategy” that universities employ to distribute their limited merit aid. Why does OU put so much effort in recruiting NMF? My daughter is a HS senior now and a NMF and we are trying to decide between OU and 3 other universities. I can think of a couple of reasons why OU might stress NMF recruiting:
- It’s easy. If you’re a NMF, you get the scholarship. My daughter is great, hard working, motivated, but it has been a chore to get her to fill out scholarship applications and write essays. My daughter and I certainly appreciated the simple, straightforward merit aid. I think this helps get more high achieving students to look at OU seriously. If OU has an application process, with multiple essays, and a lengthy selection process to get this scholarship then it probably would not have been on our radar.
- I think the other reason OU does this is marketing. It’s probably better marketing to say we have 800+ national merit scholars, more than any other public university vs. we have 1200+ students with SAT scores higher than 1500 which we can’t compare to other colleges because that information is not readily available. NMF attendance seems to be readily available for marketing.
I hope your daughter finds the best school for her. One thing my daughter and I have learned in her college search is that there are many, many great schools and the hard part will be to pick one.
My son did not prepare for the PSAT either. He got a 230. He didn’t prepare for the SAT, he got a 1560 on the core items.
The point is that the NMF scholarships are supposed to reward the brightest among us. They are not supposed to reward the almost brightest. There are literally thousands of schools that do little to nothing for NMF. That is their choice. Just like it is OU’s choice to treat the NMF candidates like valuable members of their family.
It would have been just about as easy for S1 to take UA’s NMF scholarship. He just did not like the campus. We don’t go to the UA thread and dog their campus for being too uniform. That was just my kid’s issue with them. Move on. Be happy with whatever school you choose. We are not OU homers. We just like the program our kids earned. My other kids will go to other schools. They all choose based upon their needs and abilities. Good luck.
@Torveaux So those who don’t get NMSF are “almost brightest”? Puhlease! I’m glad you like OU. It’s a good school. But to claim that only those who get NMSF are the brightest is really ridiculous. It’s a one day test. Many NMSF don’t get into top schools or win competitive scholarships. Puhlease!!!
Also laughed at that. Guess I’ll forever be a tier down because of my 211 PSAT score – never mind my 3.96 in chemical engineering, that doesn’t matter.
My D missed NMSF by 1 point and we dropped OU off her list as a result (only school that offers significant merit money only to NMF). That hasn’t kept her from winning 6 amazing competitive full rides (and counting), including to schools ranked considerably higher than OU. OU’s loss, not my D’s because she is somehow only “the almost brightest.”
Some people say the silliest stuff to justify their own choices and make themselves feel superior.
Children. Please. Brightest does not mean hardest working. Many other scholarships are designed to reward those who make the most of their talent. The point was that OU has a type. It works for them. Not saying that is how I would design a system if it were me. You act as if I said the other kids were challenged intellectually. They just were not quite as sharp as those who did better. Yes, it is one test. But it is a consistent test and does a good, not great, job of measuring intellect. It does not necessarily equate to success in college as that also requires at least a modicum of effort. GPA is an equally poor measure of talent, because it can be manipulated too easily. I graduated Summa Cum Laude, but I am not even remotely close to my son’s intelligence. Try to not be so easily offended. My son and others like him are among the smartest people in the world. He is also (IMHO) one of the most academically lazy people I know. It does not offend me at all that your child works harder than mine. Why should it offend you that my child is smarter? It is nothing for me to brag about. I didn’t make him smart. That is all a natural gift. I had no choices in this either way. He chose the college. He had other opportunities and took the one with the best package for him with the least additional effort.
@Torveaux Are you for real? Your post is quite comical. I thought you were a new poster, because then it’d make sense what you’re doing here. So those who score a 209 in Wyoming and make NMF are the brightest in the world and more intelligent than those who score a 220 in California? Okey Dokey. And a non-NMF works hard but those who make NMF don’t work hard? OK. I sincerely hope your son enjoys OU. I’m not going to comment anymore as your argument is too ridiculous to merit any further discussion.
Anytime you use one test as the “be all and end all” for some competition, you are going to have those who just miss the cut due to some reason (a bad day). My DD has scored in the 99%+ on every standardized test she has ever taken, including the ACT and SAT, but for some reason, didn’t on the PSAT. Do you really think one test defines somebody’s intelligence? I think I’m with @itsgettingreal17, the argument is too ridiculous to merit any further discussion.