<p>I have a daughter that is currently at a college prep at 20k per year. She went to public all the way through 8th grade but noticed her grades were dropping due to many distractions including being coed. Also, we moved her because 1/3 of the kids from the public high school were ending up at the community college instead of a 4 year college and we didn’t want that for our daughter. It was a hard decision at first since we are in a good school district. She is now in her 2nd year and we are VERY happy we moved her to private. She is still in touch with her old public school friends and the private school education is much harder and better preparation for college. We love the school she goes to. It’s single sex and only 100 girls in her 2013 class. They get personal attention from the teachers and administration. Our goal has never been to get her into an Ivy League school however there are schools that have more success at that. </p>
<p>It is not the school that produces Ivy League kids…it is up to the student and whether they want to work hard during their high school years. I know plenty of kids that are capable of going to an Ivy League but they don’t want to work that hard and instead want to have a fun high school experience. In conclusion, you can go to the worst high school and get into an Ivy League school if you want to…private school doesn’t guaranty anything because they can’t do the work for your child.</p>
<p>Even if they end up at a State school they got a great high school education. I see what my daughter is doing at her college prep high school and it is college level stuff.</p>
<p>I have one child in a prep (boarding) school and another who graduated from the same school and is currently a student at an Ivy. Older child was a very high achiever and, I think, would have been a standout student at our local public school and probably would have ended up at the same place - maybe. Younger child is smart and a good student, but not the academic superstar his sibling is. I doubt he’ll end up at an Ivy or similar level school. But their high school experience - for both of them - has been nothing short of spectacular. Inspiring, dedicated teachers; challenging curriculum; extracurriculars they wouldn’t have gotten in public school. The experience they’ve gotten there will take them far in life, no matter where they go to college. I’ve never looked at the school as a ticket to a top-10 school; I just feel fortunate that they were able to get such a good foundation for college and life.
And while I do realize that although we have to tighten our belts, we are lucky that it is affordable to us, that is not the case for many. However, over 1/3 of the students at their school receive financial aid and the population at the school is about as financially diverse as the public school in our fairly affluent area and definitely more culturally diverse.
So, was it worth it? I’d have to say yes…</p>
<p>Madbean, I know I’ve read a different study (somewhere) that said that teens actually do listen to parents more than peers! Ah, studies!</p>
<p>I also have to smile at the dig at Community Colleges by tinalamonica. We happen to have an excellent CC in our community. Students can begin attending and earning college credits as a high school junior. Some kids earn an AA during the high school junior/senior year – that’s two years of college credit, all on the state’s nickel. Add two years of a four year college on top of that and the student gets a four year degree for under $40K. Very affordable, particularly if the kid qualifies for Pell or Smart Grants. </p>
<p>Now the CC in tina’s town may be a sad puppy. It might not compare – just as the prep schools might not all be of value. Here’s an interesting bit: a young man we know took a course in local agricultural industries here at Evergreen College. The students toured all around the region. Our friend assumed that the places labeled “organic” farm would be the superior places. Not so. There were organic farms that were horrid – and organic farms that were, indeed, superior. There were farms without labels that also ran the spectrum.</p>
<p>Bottom line: Details and staff make the difference, be it in farms or schools. The label is not as important as the implementation of good practices.</p>
<p>^^^I think that’s stating the obvious. Most people think long and hard before they spend that 30k+/year. Unlike organic food, at most you would only be out of few $$, who cares if it’s mislabeled.</p>
<p>If people could afford it and have the grades, most people would rather go to a 4 year college instead of CC.</p>
<p>There really is not a good private school within easy driving distance from our home. So for us, sending our kids to a “better” school would have meant moving to a home in a better neighborhood (hideously expensive) or sending them to a boarding school (nobody wanted to do that and it would have been hideously expensive).</p>
<p>So we crossed our fingers and sent our kids to the local high school which sends only 25% of its students directly to a 4 year school upon high school graduation and told them to learn all they could.</p>
<p>Between the AP program and the band program, my kids had a great experience in high school and we had the money to pay for expensive colleges. </p>
<p>I know that sending them to private school would have impacted which colleges that we could have afforded to send them to. We were lucky that things all worked out.</p>
<p>Every year for the last decade I have annually evaluated if the private was worth it for our kids. So much depends on your town, the type of private school (Lord knows there are a few I would not send my kid to even if free – schools that just don’t have the same values I want for my kids) and the student. </p>
<p>As much as I love our private, I have a 5th grader, high IQ, CTY, etc. who loves hands on learning. The private does a good job at hands-on, but for sure come 7th & 8th grade I will have this son do all the local tech school visits. It may be a “step down” for college acceptance rate, but a step up for a hands on kid.</p>
<p>The best thing to me is to constantly assess the schools and the student.</p>
<p>''In conclusion, you can go to the worst high school and get into an Ivy League school if you want to…private school doesn’t guaranty anything because they can’t do the work for your child. ’ ’ ’ ’ ’ I disagree with this statement .A bad high school may not give your child the opportunities and rigorous courses necessary to get into an Ivy ,no matter how hard the student works .Some HS must carry more weight than others ,by having better reputations . A good prep school must fall in this category .</p>
<p>fauxmaven, yes, prep schools have better reputations. But I don’t agree with you that a “bad” high school (not sure the definition of it and I have a feeling what some CCers call bad is not so bad) won’t give you the rigorous courses necessary to get into an Ivy. I wonder if you would call our high school “bad”? Back when my kids attended, the hardest classes had the name “Honors,” and only one or two had the AP designation (since then, I think 4 or so courses have been named AP). The Honors courses were rigorous without being AP (if anything, I think my kids had to write a lot more than some who take AP elsewhere which is test oriented). In any case, my kid got into Ivies from this “bad” high school and other kids have also done so. Only 2/3’s are college-bound, by the way. Elite colleges look at what a student has taken within the context of what that applicant’s high school offers. If the high school offers no AP, the student is not penalized. By the way, coming from this “bad” high school, not only were my kids and others admitted to elite colleges, but my kids were well prepared, and won top awards once they were at their colleges or graduating. Students do not have to go to a private school or top public to be admitted to top colleges.</p>
<p>PS, a high school doesn’t have to “give you opportunities” as many students, including mine, create their own opportunities, on top of the ones the high school provides.</p>
<p>Agree w/ fauxmaver - - but it’s not just a matter of the prep schools reputation.</p>
<p>My secy’s son attended a very weak inner-city school where, during his freshman year he never wrote a paper more than longer than 2 pages. Upon questioning parents of older students, secy found that even seniors in the “honors” track never wrote more than a couple of 5 page papers (usually one for social sci and one in Eng). Luckily, her son scored high enough for admission to Stuyvesant (top “gifted” public hs) and Lawrenceville (top boadring sch in NJ). </p>
<p>He chose L’ville - - no comparison b/c the academic and other opportunities the school provided. He graduated and was admitted to top LAC (never ranked lower than #3).</p>
<p>Had he stayed at his “bad” public school, there’s a chance that the admissions outcome would have been the same - - but probably not, even for this young man; and FAR less likely for the other students at his old school. Also, regardless of admissions outcome, his academic preparation, having attended L’ville, was far superior to what it would have been from the old. “bad” school.</p>
<p>The problem is defining what is a bad school. The issue in this thread was prep school vs. public school.</p>
<p>My kids went to a rural public school. In freshmen Honors English, they were required to write a three page paper every night. I kid you not. (actually when older D took it, it was five pages per night but was reduced to three when D2 took it) My daughters’ writing portfolio for that one class is at least 500 pages long and very thick. I recall that at the end of each marking period, that teacher required ten essay questions answered in two nights which was 15 pages. My kids wrote lots and lots of major papers as well throughout high school and frankly well before high school. Lots of writing was required in the Honors classes at our high school. Also, our elementary school stresses writing. My younger D is an avid writer and while I won’t claim this to be the norm, I do have a 15 page paper she wrote in third grade, a 90 page script she wrote in 4th grade and a 25 page she wrote there in sixth grade. I imagine many here would never consider sending their children to our rural public schools, where 66% are college bound. My kids got a good education and while it was nothing like an elite prep school by far, they were well prepared when they got to their elite colleges and excelled there and were standouts in their fields of study. </p>
<p>I don’t think you can generalize about all public schools in one lump category or define “bad” school. I am sure there are some really bad schools out there but many no-name ordinary public high schools still prepare kids well for college. And some kids from such diddly little public schools are admitted to very selective colleges. There are lots of very good students in this country who live in all sorts of communities and also whose parents cannot afford prep school.</p>
<p>Our public school can get kids into the Ivys – maybe a kid every 2 or 3 years (grad class is <100 each year; <50% go onto any further schooling)-- but those kids struggle so much once they are in because they have never had AP courses or the caliber and depth of study. </p>
<p>Only 2 students from our public in the last 20 years have been able to go to Ivy/Ivy caliber and get through as Science Major. Others have changed to “softer” majors or transferred out completely.</p>
<p>Longhaul, the problem is generalizing. My kid went to an Ivy League school coming out of a high school that at the time did not have more than one or two AP courses and sends 66% to college. She was not only well prepared, but did not struggle in college. She won the top award for her college department at her college graduation (I’m only mentioning that to make a point). I recall in freshmen year, a professor held her paper up in class as exemplary and this was in a class with lots of kids from private prep schools. Likewise with my other D. I recall in her freshmen year of college, that the professor said her paper was the best in the class. She won top scholarships to get into this college and was selected as a Scholar which was a special program (actually come to think of it, other D was selected as a Scholar at Penn but didn’t choose to go there). She, also won further awards and scholarships at her college while attending and her college nominated her for a national award that she won upon graduating. So, I feel my kids were prepared just fine for rigorous colleges and the depth of study. They had no problem keeping up and in fact, excelled and stood out for their accomplishments. And I only bring them up as an example. My older D who is now 24 is on campus at this moment at her old Ivy and said she is having dinner tonight with a girl from a tiny town who also went to her Ivy (but is three years younger than her and so is now a senior there). That girl is also thriving and very accomplished at this Ivy and she went to our diddly little high school as well. </p>
<p>D1 went straight from college to grad school at MIT, where she was the only one in her grad program straight out of college. That is a pretty rigorous school. She has never once said she was lacking in math/science ability.</p>
<p>So, I would not generalize about all public schools or public school kids in terms of their being able to succeed at elite colleges. I know many who have from our “bad” high school.</p>
<p>soozievt: I think you are trying to generalize based on your daughter’s success out of your public HS.</p>
<p>You are ignoring the fact that if your public HS is so good with freshman english class having 3 pages of paper every night then why only 66% of students go for higher studies.</p>
<p>You need to understand that your daughters are outstanding and can’t be taken as a norm for your public HS. Just because your daughters were able to do it so successfully won’t mean that anyone can do it from your public HS or any other school like that.</p>
<p>So please don’t send wrong signals to parent who based on your inputs can spoil the future of their children because they think if your daughters can do it then anyone can.</p>
<p>POIH, I never said ANYONE at our HS can go onto a very selective college. For that matter, not every kid at elite prep school goes to an IVY either. But while my kids were high achievers, they are not the only kids from their high school who have gone onto very selective colleges. We have a small number who do. As a public school, as I wrote you in another thread, I’d say that the top 15% or so kids in our high school are every bit as qualified as the kids at your elite prep school. We just have fewer kids like this. Kids also attend our HS who are not college bound. And some attend who are going to selective but not most selective type colleges too. We also have tracked classes. The non-college bound students are not in the Honors classes with the kids who go onto selective colleges.</p>
<p>I never said our public HS is “so good.” Never. I said that our kids, and many other bright students in the community, have gone onto selective colleges (yes, it’s possible!) and have succeeded there and were well prepared. </p>
<p>The reason that only 66% go onto college is that our school must take EVERYONE unlike your elite prep school which selects its students. An elite prep school is selecting students that are equivalent to our top 15% of students. We have students with learning disabilities. We have students from families that are not education-oriented where the parents never went to college. And so on. It is not as if your elite prep school takes the SAME population of students as our public school and turns them all into kids who get into very selective colleges. Elite private prep schools START their process of educating with the students who are like the top students at our public school and have only that kind of student to work with. If our school only had the top 15% of kids that it has making up the student body, it also would have a high percentage of kids going to selective colleges.</p>
<p>I never said my kids were the norm at their high school. But they were NOT alone. We have many bright and accomplished students but far less in the student body than a prep school that creates a student body of ONLY this type of student. </p>
<p>A parent whose child is a very motivated bright student can succeed in public school. They do not have to go to prep school to be well prepared for college or to be admitted to a highly selective college. They certainly can attend for the wonderful experience. But they won’t be harmed by attending public school. I never said EVERY kid who goes to public school will succeed. But if you take the kinds of kids who do attend prep school and put them in public, they too will succeed. After all, many kids like mine, COULD have been admitted to a very selective prep school but just did not attend (due to finances, distance, etc.) and they are still the same bright student no matter which high school they attended. There are LOTS of kids like this, not just mine. And then there are kids that the public school ALSO serves that are the less motivated or underachiever types too.</p>
<p>POIH, I tried to point out that those who think they MUST attend private prep school as the publics are “bad” do not realize that there are bright students at most public schools (just a smaller percentage) and that many publics, even lowly ones like ours, still have demanding courses and lots of writing and prepare kids to succeed in college. Just because we don’t have a slew of AP courses, doesn’t prove anything. I have to say that the amount of writing that our Honors courses required is more than what I have heard some say their kids have to write in their AP courses that are heavy on text books and tests. My kids’ History classes used primary sources and required many analytical papers for example, even if you would consider it a crummy high school that you would never dream of sending your kid to.</p>
<p>Bright, motivated students tend to do well in school. And the top students at even mediocre schools go on to selective colleges and uni. The real “bonus” of prep school is for the middle of the class. The middle (and bottom) of the class at a mediocre prep school class have better admissions outcomes - - sometimes far better - - than the middle of the the class at stronger public school. Admissions outcomes, not to mention the academic preparation, at top day/prep schools - -where 40% of are NMS semi-finalists - - are incredible.</p>
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<p>Soozievt, why do you refer to your school as “lowly?” It’s honors program much more rigorous than that of most NYC high schools, including some of the gifted/magnet/portfolio schools.</p>
<p>Motivation is extremely important. And certainly there are select, motivated students that can succeed anywhere. But I believe even motivated students need guidance. I also believe most kids are effected by their peer group. Sadly, at our public, boys rarely graduate in the top of the class. I watched too many boys who were top in elementary school drop down in junior high years. I didn’t want to see that happen to my boys. </p>
<p>I know our public school very well. We live in a small community. I graduated from our public. I have friends who teach at our public. I have family who attend currently. Our public just is not good for high caliber students. Not a substantial amount of writing, no SAT prep, no APs, dual enrollment classes are no longer an option, the arts have been totally cut out. Financially, the district simply does not have the resources for highly academic kids. </p>
<p>We choose private school because, for our circumstances, it was the best choice. My kids are not in a “top” private school. I’m sure many public districts are just as good as our private, some even better. </p>
<p>soozievt - You are fortunate that your public school prepares the kids well and that your kids had peers just as bright and motivated. I disagree that kids who attend prep school could do just as well at public. I would have lost my son had he attended public. One of his former friends is in juvie. Another dropped out at 15. My son has thrill issues. I fear he would have quenched his boredom in unproductive ways had he atteneded our public. There are just as many intelligent, bored kids who lose their way when not challenged as there are the highly motivated/can succeed everywhere kids.</p>
<p>I referred to our rural public school as “lowly” due to the sense I get from many posters on CC that they would never consider such a school for their kids. Many here seem to CHOOSE their high school…either moved to an affluent area where the schools are “good” or are sending their kids to private school. We did not choose our high school. The local public is the only option in the area, not to mention we can’t afford boarding school (the only other option). From what people talk about here, it seems that a rural public school that has kids from a wide socio-economic background where 1/3 will not go onto college and where the school barely has AP courses, and so on, would not be acceptable to many here. My point is that the kids still got a good education, and were able to go onto very selective colleges, and to do very well at those colleges. My kids were not unique in this regard. There was a percentage of kids in the student body (the kids in Honors classes) who were bright and went to good colleges and then a few went to elite schools. Some CCers tout the list of colleges or percentage of students who went onto highly selective colleges from their HS and thus would think poorly of our high school if they saw the total list. I feel pretty confident that most on CC would think very low of our high school in many respects and would not send their kids there but while we don’t think it is a great school or anything, it was fine.</p>
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<p>Longhaul, first, you had a CHOICE. And I’m happy for you that you did. Many people, including ourselves and many in our community, did not have such a choice. Everyone just goes to the public school. There is not a private day school near here and most would not be able to afford it. I know a handful of families who opt to send their kids away to boarding schools, but we would never want to do that, let alone could never afford it. And we didn’t truly feel a need to anyway (not that it was ever a possibility).</p>
<p>I DO understand that everyone’s circumstances are different. For one thing, if I had the money and a fine private day school was nearby where I thought my kids would have a better experience, I would consider it. As well, each kid is different and I understand that your son has issues where a certain setting may not work well for him. I feel my kids were able to succeed wherever they were planted. All kids are different. The issues for my kids were making sure they were challenged as they do not like it when they are not. My kids had a lot of accommodations in school and we advocated for these. So, we didn’t just sit by when something was not appropriate for them. We took action to make things happen…acceleration, independent studies, taking courses in HS when in MS, and various things like that. My kids did not have a “normal” path at their HS. Not being challenged enough was not acceptable and we made sure that their needs were accommodated. That said, I think the Honors courses were challenging, and perhaps even more so than AP courses elsewhere as they did not teach to a test. Lots of writing was required. Our school did not cut the arts and in fact, has a VERY strong music department that has won significant awards. Even so, my kids were enriched by ECs outside of school in addition to ones at school. They were involved in classes, lessons and activities outside the school day (not academic in nature) and went away in summers to programs (not academic) that interested them. My kids had no SAT prep at their high school, by the way. One of my kids met a half dozen times with a private tutor and one of my kids merely took some practice tests on her own and took the SAT in tenth grade only, and never took the PSAT. We don’t have dual enrollment courses. My kids both have taken a course through JHU/CTY long distance. We have NO gifted programs here. It is certainly not an ideal school by any means. But our kids made it work and did fine. </p>
<p>Again, many accommodations were made due to advocating to make these things happen. Many meetings took place at school over our kids. Many things we put in place had never been done before and I believe children who came after our kids have now benefitted. My kids also are good at self advocating to have their learning needs met. They also are both leaders and initiated certain activities that their school had never done before. However, I do understand if you feel your son might have not done well in such a setting. My kids were not bored because we made sure they were challenged by having accommodations put into place academically, let alone they were heavily involved in their EC passions. We never sat by and accepted lack of challenge and our kids would not be satisfied with that and so we had changes put in place to meet their learning needs when necessary.</p>
<p>But I realize this may not work for all. I was just saying it was quite possible and my kids did OK and so did many other high achievers and strong students that we know here too. I feel some dismiss this kind of no-name mediocre high school off the bat and I’m just saying that some kids do just fine and are well prepared for college and even get into very selective colleges having gone to ordinary public high schools that are not known as great schools.</p>