We are California based. My son is interested in Rice and also considering BS/MD track.
My son has unweighted GPA 3.9x and SAT score of 1500 (700R + 800M). He made another attempt on May 7th.
We are in dilemma
How sure is he that he wants to be a doctor? Keep in mind that he is still in HS and students often change their mind for various reasons (they develop other interests, prerequisites are too difficult, etc).
He can be premed anywhere (or almost anywhere). There is really no “top tier” premed- students go to med school from many different colleges (do not underestimate the academic strength of these students or classes). He’s going to need the prerequisites, volunteering, shadowing, etc. It is very common to take a gap year (or years) in between undergrad and medical school.
If he takes premed out of the equation, does he like Rice…or Hopkins…or another school? Can he ED to one of these schools and also apply to BS/MD programs? He would have to drop the BS/MD if he is accepted.
I am not a fan of BS/MD. I think 17-18 is way too young to fully comprehend what is involved for med school- it’s a long, long haul. I prefer the traditional route- I realize some may not agree with me. I just think it’s important to explore their options, etc. On the other hand, I also know some want to be a doctor at 17-18 and never waiver.
Getting into a “top-tier” program doesn’t necessarily equate to better odds of admission to medical school. Especially at places like JHU known for grade deflation.
The admissions committees at med schools don’t really consider prestige of undergrad college. It sometimes can be a tipping point. They don’t consider how hard the undergrad major was either. So going to a place like JHU and majoring in engineering is going to be a rough road. The expectation is that the GPA and MCAT need to be high, regardless of major or undergrad prestige. Generally for non-URMs the goal should be cumulative GPA >3.7 and MCAT > 514.
Sometimes its better to go to a small LAC where there aren’t so many other premeds. This makes it easier to stand out.
If your son is 100% sure on medicine, then BS/MD applications are a good option. If he doesn’t get into any, then I would go for a decent LAC where he can graduate at the top of the class.
I’m not sure I understand. “Pursue” one or the other of these options? These are reaches regardless, in my opinion.
As other posters have noted, the two paths are not mutually exclusive.
Have you had the $$ talk? can (& will) you pay for all of college & med school w/o debt or pain? if so, no worries! But if not, as the parent you will do him a kindness to help him figure out a path through med school with minimal debt. That might mean choosing an UG with $$ in mind, and keeping money you have saved for UG for med school. Graduating from med school with no/minimal debt will shape his adult life more than he can imagine- but you can!
If he is seriously competitive for JHU, he has the ability to get into med school from anywhere- and there really isn’t a generic benefit to coming from one school over another (not saying that it doesn’t matter where he goes to UG, just that the name itself doesn’t confer an advantage).
IMO, the key metrics (after $$, above), relate to where he can shine: a school that suits his temperament, and where he will be a star academically (useful for both GPA and LoRs). Bonus marks for being able to work on some of the expectations of med schools (eg the core competencies: https://www.aamc.org/services/admissions-lifecycle/competencies-entering-medical-students).
“Worth it?” Is always such an unintentionally loaded question. Worth it? based on what? If you can pay for his undergrad AND medical school without leverage buying the experience for him might be worth it. That depends on him, you, and each of your priorities. What you won’t be buying is an easier route into medical school. In fact, it could be tougher. There are LOTS of pre-meds at both, especially JHU. You also won’t be buying better preparation.
I’m an optometrist, close to retiring from clinical practice. I’m 60, and have that luxury. I have many friends in healthcare and vet med who don’t because they are saddled by debt.
Assuming no need-based financial aid, my approach for any pre-healthcare degree is to go to the most supportive, inexpensive, public school. Schools like Truman State in MO and Miami-Ohio are great for pre-med.
CA has a great public system, but some of the best known can be competitive to get a high GPA. He’d want to know the admit statistics for UCLA and UCB. Don’t overlook schools like Riverside and Merced, or CSUs that aren’t commuter schools and are known for good teaching, Cal Poly and Cal Poly Humboldt as examples. As was previously pointed out, first and foremost, it’s about GPA, then MCAT, finally then, all that follows like letters, volunteer work, etc.
I’m a fan of BS/MD IF a student is certain. Of them, UMKC is one of the best, as it’s 2 years faster.
Good luck on the quest.
These are excellent stats. You will be surprised how many other premed students are just as strong. This does of course mean that competition will be tough, but also that when your son gets into premed classes he will find quite a few students who are “like him”. This can be positive from a social perspective.
How much experience does your son have working in a medical environment? This is important to try to determine how likely he is to get accepted to a BS/MD program, but also to determine how likely he is to stick with medical school as the long term plan.
Of course there is also the financial issue that others have mentioned. Can you handle 7 or 8 years at prices between $75,000 to $90,000 per year (assuming some inflation will continue before this process is over) without taking on any debt? Right now $90,000 per years sounds like too high a number. Seven years from now I would expect that it might be too low for a year of medical school anywhere other than an in-state public university. Fortunately you do have multiple very good in-state public medical schools in California. If 8 years of this will result in debt, then right now (when applying to undergraduate universities) is the time to start the process of trying to avoid debt and save money for the MD program.
As others have said getting into a top ranked medical school, or getting into any MD program at all in the US, does not require attending a top university such as Rice or Johns Hopkins for undergrad. Attending a very good in-state public school (such as UC Riverside) for undergrad might be just as good.
There is an advantage here: In terms of your dilemma I do not think that you need to think about the long-term chances of getting accepted to medical school. Whether to ED to a highly ranked undergraduate program or to pursue a BS/MD program can be based on whatever your son wants to do now (and on your budget). Of course your son also needs to apply to safeties, which might include in-state public universities. If your son has used up his ED chances on somewhere that does not work out, that is okay because attending an in-state public university that is not on the UCB or UCLA level is still a very good first step to pursue the path to getting an MD from a very good university.
I am not a big fan of BS/MD programs because of the danger than an 18 year old might change their mind regarding what they want to do with their life. I am not a big fan of ED unless you are sure that a school is the #1 choice, and also sure that you can afford it (which for a potential MD means affording 8 years where the last 4 are expensive).
There are LOTs of universities that are very good for premed. Avoiding debt and finding a good fit might be the top two priorities right now.
I’m in agreement that you don’t have to go to the “best” undergrad program to get into a top med school. Go with your most affordable option that has a good back up plan. There are lots of schools that have excellent pre-med programs even if the college overall isn’t the highest ranked.
Students can and will change their mind all the time but some don’t. Be prepared for either. In our family we have 1) S who just finished his second year of vet school, was in an early admit program ( a little like a BS/MD that you do 3 years undergrad and then 4 years vet school). You did have the choice to stop at any point of choose to do 4 years undergrad and get a degree before attending vet school). That gave students time to change their minds if they weren’t sure. The school was a very good deal financially and he will graduate with no debt. That was big to us and really should be thought of.
2) S’s fiancée started as pre-med. Graduated Summa Cum Laude. Chose not to go to med school, decided she really wanted to be a PA. Took a gap year and is starting PA school in July. You just never know what can happen.
Look at where you student will be happy, can get great grades undergrad, and has options if he changes his mind.